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| 17 DEC 2002 at 4:54am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By sennebec (17 DEC 2002 4:40am)
let's have it...
do you prefer linear or non-linear ???
Usually linear - because linear adventures tend to have much tighter and more intricate stories (think Gabriel Knight).
But that's not to say there's anything wrong with nonlinear adventures in general.
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 4:57am |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | you surprise me, michal...
i figured you to be a challenge junkie and would have preferred the more difficult non-linear approach...
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 5:08am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | I don't see that there's a correlation between linearity and difficulty. Maybe there is - I guess it depends on where the difficulty lies in the game. Take a puzzle game like 7th Guest - it is very linear and some puzzles are quite tough.
The linear/nonlinear classification is a bit fuzzy too... sometimes I'm not really sure if a game is linear or not. Is Blade Runner linear or not? What about games like Tony Tough? Maybe we should first define what a linear/nonlinear game is
Anyway a challenge is just part of the experience - good story is a necessary ingredient too.
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 5:41am |
The Terror of the Wolf part 3Schattenjger
Posts : 2391
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Hmmmm....
Linear means I wonder around the same location, trying to figure out just what the hell I've not found yet.
Non-linear means I wonder around lots of different locations, thinking the same thing.
So I'm not picky
[url=http://www.justadventure.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1136331866/0#0]GAMES FOR TRADE!![/url]
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 10:30am |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Is it? I had another definition in mind. For me a linear game is a game where you cannot change the course of events. There is only one destiny.
A non-linear game is where the events taking place depend largely on your actions and thus you can have multiple stories etc, etc.
I prefer linear stories. All my favourite adv have been linear. Gk, TLJ, Syberia etc, etc, etc...
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 12:32pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Linearity means the player has to perform tasks in a pre-defined order, like series of puzzles one after another one. Non-linearity means the player can perform tasks in any order, allowing him to make his own path - in this case, no matter what the order is, all the paths converge at the end.
Syberia is linear. The Longest Journey is not linear.
In most cases, linearity can be a bad thing because it doesn't gives freedom - you may get bored very quickly if you get stuck with a puzzle. In the contrary, in a non-linear adventure, you can work at the same time with several puzzles.
Michal is right when he says that linear games have much tighter stories but the real challenge is a game that has a tight story telled in a non-linear fashion - Infocom and Lucasarts are some of the companies that most succeded in this.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 1:09pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | i definately agree with dimi's definition: "A linear game is a game where you cannot change the course of events. There is only one destiny. A non-linear game is where the events taking place depend largely on your actions and thus you can have multiple stories etc, etc."
it doesn't matter in which order you solve the puzzles, the outcome is always the same... only point in TLJ that had 2 different results was whether you worked at the bar or went home, but that even led to the same result eventually (with a different cutscene)
a well known non linear game is non other than Pandora Directive
of course Rael's definition could be a sub-definition, so there could be linear linear and non-linear linear advs!
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 1:38pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | So Panayotis, tell me, you think Monkey Island 2 is a linear or a non-linear game? How many stories does it have?
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 1:54pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | i think it's non-linear linear!!! i really don't remember it that well (played it on my Amiga years ago)
ok here's another definition:
Linear is a game for which a straight walkthru can be written, while Non-Linear is a game for which a walkthru would need branches!
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 2:00pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | I don't think so - non-linear and multiple paths are different things.
Come think of it, a game that has multiple paths can be linear at the same time (one puzzle, two solutions). If that's what you mean, then your definition is correct, except I would call MI2 a non-linear, non-multiple paths adventure.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 2:03pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Let me add that non-linearity and multiple paths doesn't necessarily mean multiple stories - they're three different features.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 2:44pm |
| Deleted User | linear!
I just hate games you can't compleat compleatly, I want to see everything the gameproducers put their effort in making, often I try the obviously wrong solution first just to see what happens.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 2:55pm |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Non-linear
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 3:55pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | One thing is for sure TLJ is a linear game, actually it's almost the definition of a linear game, you can't even die in that game. Linear game is a game where the story follows one line, there are no branches where you can decide which one to follow, and this is the case in TLJ.
I'm surprised that this simple thing becomes even a debate. Non linear games include Blade runner, Pandora's directive and I think post mortem (which I haven't played yet, but from what I've read it seems like there are multiple paths = non linear game).
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 4:24pm |
MyriexIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 41
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Well, I'm definitely with Rael here. A (very) linear game to me is one where you must do, for example, x before you can do y and then z. If you're stuck with one puzzle you cannot try your luck with another instead. A non-linear game lets you do that. I prefer games that's on the more linear side since the story usually is presented more tightly in those games. And non-linear games often include silly mistakes, such as in Private Eye, where I first found out a guy had been murdered, only to be talking to him on the phone a little later...
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 4:32pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | I'm surprised that this simple thing becomes even a debate. Non linear games include Blade runner, Pandora's directive and I think post mortem (which I haven't played yet, but from what I've read it seems like there are multiple paths = non linear game).
So just because Space Quest 3 has multiple paths makes it a non-linear game? Sorry, I think you're wrong.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 4:54pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I haven't played Space Quest 3 and I don't remember Monkey Island 2. But yes multiple paths mean non-linear...the story does not follow a line. I guess there are two different definitions of non-linear...the one adheres to story and the other one to sequence of puzzle solving.
For me whether a game is linear or not goes down to its story...
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 5:58pm |
BelindaSchattenjger
Posts : 2093
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | geez....you guys sure do know how to confuse someone...... :-/
either way......doesn't matter to me, as long as it's a good adventure to play.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 6:03pm |
JudySpace Cadet
Posts : 173
Joined: 17 FEB 2009
Status : Offline | I definately vote Linear
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 6:10pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Ok, here are the most common meanings:
Linearity: refers to puzzles placement within the storyline.
A linear game: Broken Sword 2
A non-linear game: Monkey Island 2
Multiple paths: different ways to reach the end of the story (ie.: multiple solutions to puzzles, decisions, etc). It doesn't necessarily mean that the story changes.
A game with multiple paths: King's Quest 6
A game without multiple paths: The Longest Journey
Multiple storylines: the story greatly changes based on decisions of the player. It necessarily must have multiple paths (ie.: Indiana Jones 4, Blade Runner, etc.).
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 6:29pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Rael (17 DEC 2002 6:10pm)
Ok, here are the most common meanings:
Linearity: refers to puzzles placement within the storyline.
A linear game: Broken Sword 2
A non-linear game: Monkey Island 2
Hmm, looks like I opened a can of worms
OK Rael, how about Gabriel Knight games? They were linear overall but at least to some extent non-linear within a chapter. What does that make them? A hybrid?
Multiple storylines: the story greatly changes based on decisions of the player. It necessarily must have multiple paths (ie.: Indiana Jones 4, Blade Runner, etc.).
But in Indy IV all three storylines converge quite a while before the end and the outcome is the same. There are multiple paths but the story doesn't change greatly.
PS: Nice avatar, Ranger!
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 6:41pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By MichalN (17 DEC 2002 6:29pm)
OK Rael, how about Gabriel Knight games? They were linear overall but at least to some extent non-linear within a chapter. What does that make them? A hybrid?
Sure, why not? I mean, no game must necessarily be linear or non-linear - it can be both! The last two chapters in MI2 were fairly linear but the overall game was non-linear.
But in Indy IV all three storylines converge quite a while before the end and the outcome is the same. There are multiple paths but the story doesn't change greatly.
True, maybe it's not the best example - but a good portion of the game did change a lot (puzzles and storyline) based on an early decision.
Of course, we could start talking about multiple endings
PS: Nice avatar, Ranger!
Thanks, Mutant!
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 7:01pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Rael (17 DEC 2002 6:40pm)
Sure, why not? I mean, no game must necessarily be linear or non-linear - it can be both!
How sneaky! Good for you... if you'd said linear or non-linear, I'd present you with a number of arguments for the opposite
True, maybe it's not the best example - but a good portion of the game did change a lot (puzzles and storyline) based on an early decision.
Actually many of the puzzles were quite similar... and most of the locations were the same.
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 DEC 2002 at 7:12pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By MichalN (17 DEC 2002 7:00pm)
How sneaky! Good for you... if you'd said linear or non-linear, I'd present you with a number of arguments for the opposite
See? You also can't argue with me
Actually many of the puzzles were quite similar... and most of the locations were the same.
Yes but come on, having or not Sophia by your side was a big difference.
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