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| 21 AUG 2004 at 6:20am |
Joe_MolotovSpace Cadet
Posts : 153
Joined: 4 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Okay, I'm kinda mad and I need to vent. A few weeks back I remember there were some comments made by Gamespot that had a few feathers ruffled. That was hardly the first time ill had been spoken of the adventure genre, as I seem to remember many reviews of Syberia that went something like "Well this is an okay game, but too bad adventure games are completely dead" (and it wasn't like THAT was the first time that had been said either).
But anyway, now check out this article in Computer Gaming World. I don't really care much for CGW, but it comes to the house for free so I at least thumb through it. Anyway, near the end of this month's issue, I come to this feature called Underrated/Overrated where the editor picks some random categories and tell us things that are overrated or underrated in each one. Most of his observations are pretty much beating a dead horse, like saying Lara Croft is overrated (what is this, 2001?) or saying that Duke Nukem Forever is overrated (what is this, 1998?). But then I see this image of Guybrush Threepwood from CMI and beside it I see:
The Most Overrated/Underrated: Nostalgia Trip
Most Overrated - Adventure Games
Have you looked around on the web lately? There are tons of people getting all wistful about the olden days of adventure gaming. There are even a few fan groups dedicated to remaking some of Sierra's and LucasArts' classic titles. Sorry to break it to you, guys, but adventure games ain't what they used to be---and probably never will be again.
It was just a few simple lines in a filler article, but it makes it pretty clear how they feel about adventure games. That all they're worth is a quick dismissal, and their only fans are delusionally nostalgic and living in the past. I wonder if this guy has even bothered to play games like Syberia I & II, Broken Sword III, Tony Tough, or any of these fan games he's so quick to shrug aside like King's Quest 1+ & 2+? Or do he think he was just cruising around the Internet, stumbled into a place like Just Adventure, said "WTF? Adventure games? I thought they stopped making them after Grim Fandango. I'll have to make fun of these losers in the next issue!" Heaven forbid they might have anything positive to say, like a quick mention of the fan developed King's Quest IX or maybe a brief snippet on how the sequel to The Longest Journey is in development.
Ok yes, I realize that the hayday of adventure games is past and yes I realize that it's not just going to magically come back, but that doesn't mean there's nothing worthwhile out there. Although according to CGW that's what it means. It's gone, it's not coming back, get over it. Thanks alot guys, I'm sure that's what the execs at LucasArts were thinking when they decided to can Sam & Max 2. :
EDIT: Ironically enough, the letter from one their readers that they published a few pages later that had his Top 5 "esert Island" picks, listed The Longest Journey and said that it was "the most underrated game in a genre of underrated games". Seems their at least some of their readers don't share the same opinion as them.
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| 21 AUG 2004 at 6:43am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Sorry to break it to you, guys, but adventure games ain't what they used to be---and probably never will be again.
Sorry, but this is a true statement. I don't see what is so objectionable about it.
Ok yes, I realize that the hayday of adventure games is past and yes I realize that it's not just going to magically come back, but that doesn't mean there's nothing worthwhile out there. Although according to CGW that's what it means.
In their latest issue they gave Missing 4 stars. They've also cursed Lucasarts for canceling Sam & Max 2 multiple times. Syberia 1 and 2 and Broken Sword 3 got very good reviews from them as well. They're a mainstream publication so you're not gonna see a lot of coverage of indy or fan developed games. Their next to last issue had a 2 page preview of Dreamfall.
My point is, you should try and grow some thicker skin. The genre is not in a great spot right now (I don't like to say it's dead, but it's teetering on the edge) and you'll probably save yourself a lot of aggravation if you don't have an anyeurism every time someone mentions it.
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| 21 AUG 2004 at 6:43am |
NomadIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 94
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Joe_Molotov (21 AUG 2004 6:20am)
Seems their at least some of their readers don't share the same opinion as them.
Make that more readers, and they'll change their opinion. It's as easy as that, believe me.
The gene pool is stagnant, and I am the minister of glory.
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| 21 AUG 2004 at 6:45am |
Fibber_McGeeSpace Cadet
Posts : 168
Joined: 2 AUG 2004
Status : Online | I don't really have much to add to the main topic. Major game magazines and websites have been trashing and dismissing the adventure genre for years. They always use the same tired lines, the same disdain for gamers who are "living in the past" and playing "antiquated games" in a genre that "hasn't evolved" even as they praise games that are nothing more than old game play with a fresh coat of paint slapped on.
I think most reviewers for major magazines and websites are just ADD-afflicted console jockeys who attack anything that doesn't feature whiz-bang super keen graphics, big explosions and piles of smoking corpses as a matter of course.
The reason they always seem to say the same thing when bringing up Adventure games is that they don't know enough about the genre to make intelligent remarks on why the genre is in the the state it's in, so they tow the party line knowing the only folks who'll care are us dorks huddled over our computers reliving the good old days of adventure, daring to imagine that it's okay to like games that we enjoy playing.
Anyway, anyone with a brain knows that the most overrated nostalgia trip is the current wave of 80's nostalgia. I lived through the 80's. They sucked, end of story.
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| 21 AUG 2004 at 12:51pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | This is funny... I'm reading the PcGameplay, Belgian magazine actually, and it's great. They actually love the revival of adventure, as they call it.
They even put "hey, guess what this FPS is about... no, it's not WWII, no it's not Vietnam! The earth has blown up and you got to fight alie-... oh, OK, there is no story." in reviews of FPS sometimes. Very 'liberal' and special, really.
They really enjoy new adventuregames and even games with bad graphics get a full-page review by them. Syberia 1 got 4 pages and high ratings, as well as Syberia 2; 5 pages even.
So they are there, but are as scare as adventure fans.
Oh, and they actually said: "It's time for some puzzling, really." once ... makes me lucky with one of the few magazines in the world who promote puzzle solving
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| 21 AUG 2004 at 1:56pm |
Joe_MolotovSpace Cadet
Posts : 153
Joined: 4 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jujigatame (21 AUG 2004 6:42am)
Sorry, but this is a true statement. I don't see what is so objectionable about it.
I'm not contesting that. In fact, you quoting the line where I said I wasn't arguing with that. What gets me is the fact that out of the blue, unprovoked, they decided to take a cheap shot not only the current state of adventure games, but fan games and even adventure game nostalgia.
I usually don't care if some magazine says something like "Adventure Games are dead" and maybe I'm flying off the handle about nothing here, but something about the way this was said just rubbed me the wrong way.
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| 21 AUG 2004 at 2:36pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Keep one thing in mind:
computer mags hype the latest trends and bash which doesn't sell
In general, they do. But not always. Honestly, Gamespot doesn't come across as anti-adventure like many people claim.
CGW sounds like a mag noone should care about.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 21 AUG 2004 at 3:16pm |
| Deleted User | Sorry to break it to you, guys, but gaming print mags ain't what they used to be---and probably never will be again.
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| 21 AUG 2004 at 4:29pm |
Fibber_McGeeSpace Cadet
Posts : 168
Joined: 2 AUG 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Bazza (21 AUG 2004 3:15pm)
Sorry to break it to you, guys, but gaming print mags ain't what they used to be---and probably never will be again.
That's true. Most of the really good ones have gone to the dogs or are just plain long gone.
*sheds a single tear for NextGeneration*
:'(
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| 22 AUG 2004 at 6:37am |
STooGE4444, EastCoastDoom...Schattenjger
Posts : 2099
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Bazza (21 AUG 2004 3:15pm)
Sorry to break it to you, guys, but gaming print mags ain't what they used to be---and probably never will be again.
Now that's what I'm talking about......useless (except MacGamer).....
Anyone who doesn't play Adventure games and puts the genre down is just ignorant....so let them be igggy....And I ignore them just like people and their pop music and faux heavy metal ("ohhhhhhyeaaaaa..........linkin "logs" park is sooooooo f'ing heavy mannnnn....."
......and they can suck my.......
RED hot chilli......get your chilli right here......red hot...
~rbeeler SVT &&Name's STooGE$$$$ Valpurgius TNT; it's not PLURAL&&[img]http://www.riseaboverecords.com/sleep/image/sleepfront.gif[/img]&&151.Generally speaking Sludge Doomsters are Angry, Gothic doomsters are sad, funeral doomsters are barely breathing, death doomsters are dirty, drunk and dribbling, Stoner Doomsters don't care, drone doomsters are out of it and traditional Doomsters are permanently pissed off, mainly with other doomsters
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| 22 AUG 2004 at 7:30am |
| Deleted User | Hello-
I personally do not care what the mags say, it is our opinion of the game or games that is important. So maybe I just have a thicker skin. Let them rant, they will anyway, it is like news programs, you might not like it, but there it is anyway. So don't buy the mag if you do not like what they say. I frankly give all of us a lot of credit for knowing what is good and what is bad.
Margo
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| 22 AUG 2004 at 1:59pm |
The Terror of the Wolf part 3Schattenjger
Posts : 2391
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | What higher power do gaming mags worship?
$$£$£$££
And of course, the mighty power of Cash is obtained only through following fashion trends. Not through independant thought :
Magazines have nothing against adventure games. But it's sucking up to the management. For example - pretend that you're working in a whorehouse. Two clients walk in - one who's highly intelligent and with creative flair, and one who's as ugly as sin but had pocketfulls of cash, drops $100 notes wherever he walks and is liable to give you a great big tip, who would YOU choose?
[url=http://www.justadventure.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1136331866/0#0]GAMES FOR TRADE!![/url]
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| 22 AUG 2004 at 3:08pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | It's kinda a self fulfilling prophecy.
Games mag hype the stuff that sells like Doom III hence increasing the sales of these games.
At the same time slag off adventures for not selling and giving them low marks thus making sure that casual gamers won't buy them.
If the Gaming mags were to suddenly start promoting adventures and giving them all high marks I would bet the sales of these games would jump.
But with the amount of money thrown at FPS and sports titles adventures will never really get a look in.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 22 AUG 2004 at 4:57pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | At the same time slag off adventures for not selling and giving them low marks thus making sure that casual gamers won't buy them.
Let me once again reiterate that CGW (the specific magazine in question) gave 4 star ratings to Syberia, Broken Sword 3, Missing: Since January, and Dark Fall, and a 4.5 star rating to TLJ.
That is all.
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| 23 AUG 2004 at 2:48am |
redhat2Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 52
Joined: 28 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jujigatame (22 AUG 2004 4:56pm)
Let me once again reiterate that CGW (the specific magazine in question) gave 4 star ratings to Syberia, Broken Sword 3, Missing: Since January, and Dark Fall, and a 4.5 star rating to TLJ.
That is all.
You are absolutely right..if the game is good enough they will get good marks..
I think some critics have this opinion as to how games should be at this moment...They believe it should be using all the current technology (I am not talking about graphics) and more direct control over the PC.
They don't seem to be pleased at the fact that adventure games are still using outdated technology..
What you have to understand is critics are just stating their opinion.
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| 23 AUG 2004 at 3:58am |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | I think we can thank the consoles for all of this. Most kids would rather pound on a bunch of buttons rather that learn how to use a computer.
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| 23 AUG 2004 at 4:34am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Uh, I'd say the large majority of kids today know how to use computers.
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| 23 AUG 2004 at 6:12am |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Yeah, my 4year old nephew is a whizz on the computer.
He has an Natural History encyclopedia that he can browse at will going into topics, back out into different areas to watch the videos etc.
He's better with the mouse and computer than my Brother in law
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 24 AUG 2004 at 7:00pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | What do gaming mags have against adventure games?- There's not enough killing of living creatures in (most of) them
- There's not enough of a battery of armature in which to kill said living creatures
- Adventure Games do not necessarily require the "cutting edge" technology (READ: more and more expensive computer upgrades) that the latest-and-greatest multi-fraggers absolutely need to play and perform properly
- Adventure Games do not necessarily require the player to "Kill, kill, kill!" in order to progress through the game
- Adventue Games (for the most part) have puzzles which require patient thought
- It's the latest thing, you know. Kill stuff. The more you destroy, the bigger and more important the person you are
- Computer manufacturers are "in bed" with the game programmers and developers, so one must have the latest (expensive) gear to play games other than "Nancy Drew", so "let's make this game playable only on a Pentium 5 with a PCI-Express buss" (NVidia has already jumped on the PCI-Express bandwagon, so say "bye-bye" to your latest $500 video cards
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| 24 AUG 2004 at 11:35pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | redhat, thanks for being the only person to read my posts on this thread.
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| 25 AUG 2004 at 1:01am |
The UnderminerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 73
Joined: 28 JUN 2004
Status : Online | So, Mark, you’re saying killing is “the latest thing”? Well, I did a little research and I discovered a startling thing...
[smiley=detective.gif]
There was violence in the past, long before action games were invented. Fascinating, eh? Yeah, and know something, Mark? The Crusades, for instance. Tremendous violence, many people killed, the darned thing went on for thirty years! And this was before action games were even invented. Eh? EH?
I've got a plan and it's as hot as my pants!
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| 25 AUG 2004 at 3:29am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | LOL at Roger Meyers.
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| 25 AUG 2004 at 9:43am |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Posted by: jujigatame:redhat, thanks for being the only person to read my posts on this thread.
What are the rest of us - chopped liver? :-/
Posted by: J. Eric Dietrich:So, Mark, you’re saying killing is “the latest thing”?
Usually, when a question (or statement) is put into quotation marks, it indicates the statement (or question) has been written "verbatim" (i.e, the actual words used in the original statement) and quoted as such. I never mentioned the statement "the latest thing". Implied, yes.
The point of my post is that if - for example - one happens to pick up any PC gaming magazine (U.S. or U.K.), please do me a favor and see how many pages are in the magazine, then count how many pages of implements of destruction or vivid blurbs referring to annihilation are advertised, referred to, or implied. Then we can discuss the relevance of the original Topic:"What do gaming mags have against adventure games?.
Posted by: J. Eric Dietrich:Well, I did a little research and I discovered a startling thing...
That's funny, Mr. Dietrich. I clicked and clicked on your underlined word "research", and it never showed me a darn thing. Fooled me. I thought it was an active link to some informative, topical, and lucid treatise about "killing" and its extensive history.
Posted by: J. Eric Dietrich:There was violence in the past, long before action games were invented. Facinating, eh? Yeah, and know something, Mark? The Crusades, for instance. Tremendous violence, many people killed, the darned thing went on for thirty years! And this was before action games were even invented.
I think it is unnecessary to refer to "killing" as a interesting research topic, because it has been forever a subject of universities and think-tanks. Most scholars have recognized the topic of killing ends in a dead-end discussion - which leads nowhere. "Killing" has always been with us, and discussed more than I'm willing to study any longer.
Posted by: J. Eric Dietrich:Eh? EH?
I'm not deaf, thanks. Nevertheless - and trying to get back on Topic - game developers have lots of easy and historical fodder to munch on for their source material.
The cud results of all that chewing personifies our discussion - the content of most PC gaming magazines are based upon violent games (and I am not saying I don't like all of them, nor am I saying that all Adventure Games do not have violence as part of their plot or game structure).
Your posts' credibility factor, Mr. Dietrich? 2/10. You misspelled "fascinating".
As a postscript:
So: what do most gaming magazines have against Adventure Games? The editors, reviewers, and owners simply don't like (most) Adventure Games. They aren't big business.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 25 AUG 2004 at 4:30pm |
Fibber_McGeeSpace Cadet
Posts : 168
Joined: 2 AUG 2004
Status : Online | And the credibility level of your post Mark? 0/10 for not recognizing an almost direct quote from The Simpsons.
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| 25 AUG 2004 at 11:17pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Fibber_McGee (25 AUG 2004 4:29pm)
And the credibility level of your post Mark? 0/10 for not recognizing an almost direct quote from The Simpsons.
Sorry. I'm not too hip with the latest Simpsons' vernacular. Would that happen to be "Eh? EH?" or "Mmmm. Doughnuts."
I was hoping my credibility level would be a bit higher, since this topic wasn't exactly based on one's level of expertise referencing The Simpsons quotes.
However...will I get any redemption points if I quote one of my favorites?
Ralph Wiggum: "I once picked my nose 'til it bleeded."
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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