| Just Adventure News : |
| Home - Forum Home |
| Page 2 of 4 : « ‹ › » |
| 4 AUG 2004 at 4:17pm | |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor  Posts : 7058 Joined: 14 SEP 2003 Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ogre (4 AUG 2004 11:38am) You are wrong. At least in the United States, copyright infringements can only be investigated if the rightful copyright holder complains. Besides, I suspect the police has more important things to do I forgot my sig. |
| Profile Search | |
| 4 AUG 2004 at 6:25pm | |
Fibber_McGeeSpace Cadet  Posts : 168 Joined: 2 AUG 2004 Status : Online | Originally Posted By lakerz (30 JUL 2004 9:13pm) Well let's see, maybe someone didn't own a computer when the game was available, or didn't own a good enough computer. Maybe for whatever reason they didn't have the money to buy the game when it was still on store shelves, maybe with all the choices available they overlooked good games until it was too late, or considering how old some of these games are, maybe they were too young. I'm sure a lot of game publishers share your attitude, but your attitude makes no sense. Why shouldn't a company make games available if people want them? There are alternatives to packaging and selling games at retail? Why couldn't companies make their games available for download for a minimal fee? Or better yet, why not make older games with no further commercial viability freely available to gamers? There's no logical reason for a company to sit on a ten year old game and sic their lawyers on websites that allow people to download them. It's not like MP3s where someone might actually be losing money on the deal. This software is not making money for anyone, nor will it ever again. Even if the company plans sequels or remakes, what effect would releasing the orignal as freeware have no that? I'm no legal expert, but none as far as I can see. If the only place I can buy it is from an auction site where the only person making money on it is the person selling it, then I'll download it if its available. If a company wants me to buy their games, then they should sell their games. |
| Profile Search | |
| 4 AUG 2004 at 8:01pm | |
ThanandaJourneyman  Posts : 1168 Joined: 8 OCT 2003 Status : Online | Even if the company plans sequels or remakes, what effect would releasing the orignal as freeware have no that? I'm no legal expert, but none as far as I can see. The effect will be, the most positive one for that company- it's a free publicity for the new game . People will say "Hm... I wonder, if I should buy this game?.. Hey, wait! I've downloaded and played the first part (the whole game, not just the demo!), I liked it, so why to hesitate? " Do go on! I always yawn, when I'm fascinated! |
| Profile Search | |
| 10 AUG 2004 at 4:41am | |
JoGuild Master  Posts : 3313 Joined: 3 NOV 2002 Location: AU, Qld. Status : Offline | The only problem with this is, why didn't you buy it when it was available? Why does a game company have to make every title they develop available for sale for all of eternity? That doesn't make sense to me.Just echoing someone esle. We didn't buy a computer until 1993 or thereabouts - and even then didn't know much about adventure games or any others for that matter. If MI1 hadn't been thrown in with the computer, I rather doubt if I'd ever have even discovered adventure games. A lot of games that have been available in America have either never been released in Australia or if they have would only have been on the shelves for a short time. I know I've missed masses of games in this way mainly because I never had heard of them. Nowadays the only way to obtain them is by downloading them. Personally I don't see anything wrong with that and the only two companies I download from seem pretty careful about what's actually available for download even though there may appear to be very many titles on their list - when you actually click on a particular game, more often than not they tell you that it's only available from the distributor and have a link to the distributors site. Seems pretty fair to me whether legal or not, and as these companies are still operating I guess that they're not seen as any great threat to the games developers or distributors. |
| Profile Search | |
| 10 AUG 2004 at 6:24pm | |
lakerzPrivate Detective  Posts : 654 Joined: 11 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Well, I've certainly missed out on a whole bunch of games when I was younger as well (I'm only 31 now). oesn't mean I'm entitled to get them all for free now. It's easy enough to find the majority of them off of the auction sites or game trading sites for not much money. In my opinion, the internet has made it waaaaaay to easy for people to abuse/bend copyright laws. I'm just playing a bit of devil's advocate here. I'm not saying "abandonware" is 100% evil or whatever. But I do find certain trends disturbing with all of this. I know I'm in the minority viewpoint here, so flame away. The hotspot has been getting rather stale anyways. What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas... |
| Profile Search | |
| 10 AUG 2004 at 7:06pm | |
Fibber_McGeeSpace CadetPosts : 168 Joined: 2 AUG 2004 Status : Online | Nothing to flame you about really, lakerz. Yours is the "correct" attitude after all. Really though, when it comes to old out of print games, beyond tricky legal issues, what is the difference between downloading a game and buying it off of someone else? Either way the publisher makes no money off of it. Of course it's a tricky issue. You can buy used console games at any munber of places, but that doesn't make it right to pirate those games. But those games generally are readily available while many older PC games are not. Here's an interesting thing though, what do you think of fan-made remakes like AGDInteractive's update's of King's Quest 1 & 2 and Quest For Glory 2? As these are technically the same games with facelifts, then the same rules as with abandonware would apply, no? They apparently okayed it with Sierra first, but Sierra still owns the King's Quest and Quest For Glory series. Many companies give implied permission to download their old games by taking no action to put a stop to it, but that clearly isn't enough in your eyes to make downloading those games okay. So does that make downloading fan remakes or fangames in general any different? |
| Profile Search | |
| 10 AUG 2004 at 8:38pm | |
DJ SouzaJourneyman Posts : 1452 Joined: 19 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Morally speaking, I don't see any difference between dowloading them for free and buying them on Ebay. Actually, I do think that the Ebay method is probably a worse offender to the game developers. The prices at Ebay for some oldies are just ridiculous, and the game developers get nothing out of it. NOTHING. I even met some people in these forums that are used to buy new games, play and finish them really fast, and then sell them on Ebay for MORE than they paid for the game. (Like, for example, for the people who live in countries where there are few adventure games released) And somehow that's LEGAL but abandonwares are not? It seems to me that there is something missing in the law, concerning abandonware... Why? Because, quite simply, NO ONE REALLY cares about old games anymore. Only a small community of retro gamers. Well, I don't really think it's that small, but it's quite underated, that's for sure. [center]DIEGO J. SOUZA&&Consulting Detective for Hire[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/YaBBImages/smilies//detective.gif[/img]&&&&[img]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Fairygdmther/Avatars/A-G-E-S_SIG.jpg[/img][/center] |
| Profile Search | |
| 10 AUG 2004 at 8:50pm | |
Fibber_McGeeSpace CadetPosts : 168 Joined: 2 AUG 2004 Status : Online | Plus there are a few reputable abandonware sites, like Home of the Underdogs, that are good about taking down downloads if the publisher objects. Those are the only sites I download from. |
| Profile Search | |
| 10 AUG 2004 at 8:57pm | |
Fibber_McGeeSpace CadetPosts : 168 Joined: 2 AUG 2004 Status : Online | Originally Posted By DJ Souza (10 AUG 2004 8:38pm) This, for me, is the main point where abandonware is concerned. Warez are one thing, that's pirating games that are still on store shelves and any moron knows that's wrong. However, with old out of print games, if the copyright holder doesn't care enough about these old games to make them legally available in some way, or more to the point to take steps to put a stop to online distribution of these games, then why shouldn't we be able to download them? It's not like shoplifting. You're not really stealing anything of any actual worth, or that's readily available for a reasonable price in many cases. |
| Profile Search | |
| 10 AUG 2004 at 9:10pm | |
DJ SouzaJourneymanPosts : 1452 Joined: 19 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Originally Posted By Fibber_McGee (10 AUG 2004 8:56pm)Also there's the problem with hiring a crew to provide some minimal technical support to the players, since most of these oldies won't work on newer machines without messing with the configuration files... But this probably was already discussed before, wasnt it? Oh well, I still think that abandonware rocks! [center]DIEGO J. SOUZA&&Consulting Detective for Hire[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/YaBBImages/smilies//detective.gif[/img]&&&&[img]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Fairygdmther/Avatars/A-G-E-S_SIG.jpg[/img][/center] |
| Profile Search | |
| 10 AUG 2004 at 9:45pm | |
Fibber_McGeeSpace CadetPosts : 168 Joined: 2 AUG 2004 Status : Online | Yeah, it can be hard getting old game to run on XP, but luckily there are programs like SCUMMVM and DOSBox to help in that regard. Thanks to these two programs, I've gotten many old games, whether downloaded or obtained legally, to work as they should. And as far as DOSBox goes, if someone doesn't know your way around DOS enough to use the program, they have no place even trying to play these old games. I have an advantage in that I started gaming a few years before Windows was still an alternative rather than the only choice. Using DOSBox brought back many memories. I'm not sure if I'd term them "good" or not. |
| Profile Search | |
| 11 AUG 2004 at 2:21am | |
MissBSchattenjger  Posts : 2217 Joined: 15 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Abandonware......hmmmm, my heart says it's wrong to download and play for free, but my wallet says, "o it! o it!" [smiley=sorry.gif] So, as a compromise, if I have the money (which is a considerable amount if you buy off Ebay), I buy it.....if I don't, and it's available off HOTU, I download it. I do this with a pretty clear conscious because I am an avid collector and will eventually buy it. I replay my games like a maniac and usually just allow myself to play a downloaded copy once. My name is Bethany and I'm the daughter of Gamergal/Michelle. |
| Profile Search | |
| 11 AUG 2004 at 8:41am | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By DJ Souza (10 AUG 2004 8:38pm) First the publisher got the money from the first buyer so its not like they didn't get anything! Second if people are stupid enough to buy stuff from ebey for a larger price than shops or online stores sell it they are simply stupid!!! It's not really news that some people get into some kind of ecstasy when bidding at online auctions instead of searching for the product in google first and check out price lists... there are many pages who show an article with the prices from varous shops and its simple to choose the cheapest one. That's how I got my camera equipment... I saved around 200 Euro to the regular price just by checking such lists on the net first! Btw I never personally bought or sold something on ebay. |
| 11 AUG 2004 at 8:51am | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Fibber_McGee (10 AUG 2004 7:05pm) Well those fangames are quite tricky... using the brand name itself could get the developers in trouble and if for example the people from the KQ 9 project get the blessings from Roberta Williams it doesn't really mean anything cause she doesn't hold the copyright. Or why do you think the people from AGD Interactiver stay absolutely anonymous... because they are scared to get sued! Thats also one of the reasons why its so tricky to get games like Quest for Glory 4 1/2 because they belong to a shadow-zone not really pirated but still also not really legal. The makers of the Ultima 1 remake for example had to stop the project and rename and remodel it after getting a warning from EA. At least EA didn't sue them immediatly but told them to stop. The same could happen anytime to any of the old Sierra remakes only with the difference that nobody knows who really is behind those projects. |
| 11 AUG 2004 at 6:37pm | |
lakerzPrivate DetectivePosts : 654 Joined: 11 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Everyone is making good points here. My thoughts on the fanmade games. I've downloaded and played both of Tierra's (I forget what they changed their name to) KQ remakes. I don't think people should feel moral ambiguity in dong this because these are not the same game. Both games are quite different from the original in graphic style as well as incorporating different puzzles. I think Sierra certainly has the right to block these games from being available for d/l though as they own the copyright for anything KQ related. I disagree though with the attitude companies take towards fanmade games. Short of a slanderous parody, what's the harm I say! As long as the website clearly states they have no connection to the company and their product is strictly a fan game and that it is offered for free. As to ebay and buying games secondhand/used, I am of the opinion that it is completely and totally different than d/l the game for free. The people selling the game have a right to do so as they bought the game in the first place with the implied agreement that they can sell it. By buying a used game off someone, I'm at least putting money in a gamers' hand, money which could potentially be used by them to buy more games. Whether you buy a game new or used, I believe you are feeding the videogame industry, whether directly or indirectly. Like I said, I'm not hardcore against abandonware sites, not at all. I just don't agree with the opinion of those who state that buying a game secondhand, be it on ebay or whatever, is just as bad or worse than d/l it for free. To me, that makes no sense. I've d/l a few games off of underdogs like Igor: Object Uikablahblahblah and Plan 9 because no matter how hard I looked, I just couldn't find the dang games anywhere. But I also see underdogs offering fairly new games for d/l that are easily found at other sources for not much money at all. If a company offers a past game for free (for whatever reason), that is a great thing. It's too bad more companies don't take this approach. Sorry my thoughts aren't more organized. I tend to ramble on. What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas... |
| Profile Search | |
| 11 AUG 2004 at 8:33pm | |
DJ SouzaJourneymanPosts : 1452 Joined: 19 OCT 2002 Status : Online | If you buy a game and then sell it for another person for the same amount you payed or less, that makes perfect sense IMO. If you buy a game and then sell it for a LOT more than the game is worth, then you are making a PROFIT, and the developers don't get anything from that. That's what I said. There are a lot of smartypants making profit out of old games on Ebay, some people are also making profit out of NEW games by selling them to the folks who live in other countries for more than what they paid for ...but we all know distributing abandonware for free is illegal... There's something that just doesn't make sense here...[smiley=boggled.gif] [center]DIEGO J. SOUZA&&Consulting Detective for Hire[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/YaBBImages/smilies//detective.gif[/img]&&&&[img]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Fairygdmther/Avatars/A-G-E-S_SIG.jpg[/img][/center] |
| Profile Search | |
| 11 AUG 2004 at 8:42pm | |
Speaker4DeadIntergalactic Janitor Posts : 53 Joined: 6 APR 2003 Status : Online | Ogre...the difference is very subtle, arguable non-provable, but there nonetheless. You claim that when games are sold on ebay, the developer makes no money. I disagree. While I'm all for abandonware, I think your argument is a little too simplistic, and overlooks a critical argument of selling games... If I buy a game from a store, and then sell it, I have earned money which I will very likely use to buy more games. The developer receives no direct money for this, but the buyers of the game receive more money that they could theoretically and will very likely give to the developer. If I simply download and/or distribute a game, the developer receives nothing, and the gamer receives nothing, thereby continuing the cycle of downloading. That said, if the developer has no interest in protecting their copyright, it should by all means be available for download. I'm just saying that the cycle-of-money-to-buy games thing is something you're missing. |
| Profile Search | |
| 12 AUG 2004 at 12:42am | |
krkdnosePrivate Detective Posts : 707 Joined: 9 JUN 2004 Status : Online | Originally Posted By DJ Souza (11 AUG 2004 8:33pm) I'm not sure what it is that doesn't make sense to you. If I have a remodeled 68 Corvette in mint condition, I can most likely sell it for a lot more than it originally cost. And yet Chevy isn't getting a cut of it. Some times things go up in value. That's just the way life works. What's the problem with that? I also don't understand the people who think that selling used games is wrong. It's mine. I can sell it if I want to. The publisher doesn't have a right to a cut of that item because they already got their cut. Now if I make a copy for myself to keep and then sell it, that's wrong. Because now there are two copies floating around and they only got their cut from one of them. This all seems pretty simple to me. Should libraries be banned because publishers aren't getting their cut from the books being borrowed? |
| Profile Search | |
| 12 AUG 2004 at 1:44am | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By krkdnose (12 AUG 2004 12:42am) Read your license agreement next time you install some software, then you may well start to understand.... You typically have bought the Media and a non-transferrable 'right of use'. |
| 12 AUG 2004 at 3:27am | |
MichalNGrand InquisitorPosts : 7058 Joined: 14 SEP 2003 Status : Online | Originally Posted By Bazza (12 AUG 2004 1:44am) Come on Bazza, just because someone prints a bunch of ominous sounding statements on a piece of paper doesn't mean it's a legally binding contract. Point me to one court ruling upholding those ELUAs and I might start taking them seriously. What I see so far is that despite all the legal mumbo jumbo, software vendors are making no attempt to stop second hand software sales. I was just reading a typical DreamCatcher software license; it mentions that you accept the terms by clicking on an "I Agree" button (they even claim that is as binding as a signature - I really doubt that). How will they prove that you clicked on that button? And even if they can prove that, how can they prove that it was you and not someone else? What about minors who cannot enter into legally binding contracts, but can buy games? Basically the vendors are just trying to intimidate people and hoping that no one will call them on it. Which seems likely since 99% folks don't even read those supposedly legally binding licenses. I forgot my sig. |
| Profile Search | |
| 12 AUG 2004 at 3:53am | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By MichalN (12 AUG 2004 3:27am) hehe, spoil sport |
| 12 AUG 2004 at 4:08am | |
krkdnosePrivate DetectivePosts : 707 Joined: 9 JUN 2004 Status : Online | Originally Posted By Bazza (12 AUG 2004 1:44am) Ok, just for fun I just installed six games. None of them said anything about them being non-transferrable. If selling used games is somehow illegal, please explain how ebay and ebgames can continue to do so. Please point me to one single court case that has held that selling used games is illegal. In 2000 Nintendo, EA Games, and Sega filed a suit against Yahoo in California charging that Yahoo had permitted users to sell illegal copies of video games. "At Yahoo Auctions and Yahoo Stores, sellers have been openly and notoriously trafficking in the sale of counterfeit and unpublished video games and illegal devices," the companies charged in their complaint. "Some of the video games and/or hardware listed for sale on Yahoo's sites are authentic, including--just as in any flea market--people selling used game consoles, controllers, and games. On any day, however, Yahoo's sites offer for sale scores of illegal products." There you have it. Nintendo, EA Games, and Sega at least admit that selling used games is legal. |
| Profile Search | |
| 12 AUG 2004 at 4:53am | |
MichalNGrand InquisitorPosts : 7058 Joined: 14 SEP 2003 Status : Online | Originally Posted By krkdnose (12 AUG 2004 4:08am) The DreamCatcher license for Missing actually does say that: "reamCatcher grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable limited license to use, for your own personal, noncommercial use, the application(s) [...]". It further states that "The copying, redistribution, selling or publication of any part of the Application Software is strictly prohibited." But then, whoever wrote the license obviously had a good sense of humor, as evidenced by this: "reamCatcher will replace, free of charge, any compact disc that may be damaged in any way. [...] A postage and handling charge of US$8.00 must accompany the order. (Please note: US$2.00 for each additional disc.)" I forgot my sig. |
| Profile Search | |
| 12 AUG 2004 at 5:27am | |
krkdnosePrivate DetectivePosts : 707 Joined: 9 JUN 2004 Status : Online | Originally Posted By MichalN (12 AUG 2004 4:53am) I didn't try that one But here's what I'm willing to do. I'll put my copy of Missing up on ebay for sale. Someone here can then notify TAC of my utter disregard for their license and we'll see how long it takes for me to be in handcuffs |
| Profile Search | |
| 12 AUG 2004 at 6:53am | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By krkdnose (12 AUG 2004 5:26am) Cool, perhaps they'll put out another game whereby we have to track you down |
| Page 2 of 4 : « ‹ › » |
Back to Top | Home | News | Articles | Forum | About Us | Contact Us
Copyright ©2013, Just Adventure LLC. All rights reserved in the United States and throughout the world.
All other products and copyrights mentioned on
Just Adventure LLC are the property of their respective companies, and Just Adventure LLC makes no claim thereto.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy
