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| 29 JUL 2004 at 8:23am |
NomadIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 94
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Hm. I always thought the way we deal with it is to use it, but never to talk about it
The gene pool is stagnant, and I am the minister of glory.
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| 29 JUL 2004 at 1:16pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Abandonware is free to download legally. WAREZ is software with still rights by the previous owner, which you can't download.
No fear with abandonware
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| 29 JUL 2004 at 3:15pm |
NomadIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 94
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Come on, don't fool people. "Abandoned" doesn't mean the rights were given up by the owner, as the case with an abandoned... dog? It's more like an abandoned house - not used any more, but still owned by someone. And that's not a point to be discussed.
The gene pool is stagnant, and I am the minister of glory.
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| 29 JUL 2004 at 4:52pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Nomad (29 JUL 2004 3:14pm)
Come on, don't fool people. "Abandoned" doesn't mean the rights were given up by the owner, as the case with an abandoned... dog? It's more like an abandoned house - not used any more, but still owned by someone. And that's not a point to be discussed.
Sure is. In most cases, that "someone" moved away and died years ago, leaving no heirs. If you think that isn't the case, certainly you should be able to find the owners, right?
Apart from that, although the law is different in different countries, it is possible to lose ownership through neglect. If person A abandons a house and person B moves in, after certain period of time B becomes the rightful owner (if A shows no interest in the property). I'm sure someone with education in law can explain this better...
I forgot my sig.
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| 29 JUL 2004 at 5:01pm |
NomadIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 94
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Erm, you got a point there. Something I completely forgot about, namely liquidated companies without legal heirs. Whom do the rights fall onto in that case? I don't know.
Sorry for sounding so confident up there. My mistake.
The gene pool is stagnant, and I am the minister of glory.
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| 29 JUL 2004 at 6:01pm |
lakerzPrivate Detective
Posts : 654
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | "Abandonware" is a grey area. Each person must look from within to decide where their ethics lie. blah blah blah...
I think it's good to have a repository of old classics that are available to the public to keep their memory alive. I don't think it's good that sites are putting up games to d/l that aren't very old at all. Not to mention cd-rip format. Yuck, that's like watching a movie with no sound, just subtitles so one can read the dialogue. Anyone who plays a cd-rip is cheating themselves.
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas...
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| 29 JUL 2004 at 8:43pm |
ThanandaJourneyman
Posts : 1168
Joined: 8 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Hey, do you think, Sierra's games will now turn into abandonware?
There is no Sierra anymore, and you can't buy their games anywere... :'(
Maybe, soon we will be able to download them
Do go on! I always yawn, when I'm fascinated!
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| 29 JUL 2004 at 10:34pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | What does it mean "if you can still buy it"?
In stores, right?
I think you meant that.
Because to me it doesn't make any difference if a game is not in stores or if it is available via Ebay or a different auction system.
I give my money to someone and not to the company. In fact, I could say the other are ripping me off (if abandonware was legally established which it is not, let's not forget that).
Personally, I'm not a collector. I don't hold any game more valuable than any other. It's all the same to me.
I guess serious collectors are less likely to make use of abandonware. They want everything that's half-way decent (or even not) with the original wrapping.
Watch out what is called abandonware. Not everything out there is legit. I mean, abandonware is nether legit in the technical sense, but there is material that's definitely not in any way abandonware cause it is still sold for full price.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 30 JUL 2004 at 12:31am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | If a game is no longer available for purchase by the publisher, I feel no moral qualms about downloading it. If they don't want my money, so be it.
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| 30 JUL 2004 at 4:01am |
mr_williIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 60
Joined: 10 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jujigatame (30 JUL 2004 12:31am)
If a game is no longer available for purchase by the publisher, I feel no moral qualms about downloading it. If they don't want my money, so be it.
That's my feelings exactly.
The lure, at least for an adventure gamer like me, is most good games in the genre are no longer published. For example, today's review, Shadow of the Comet, is published by Infrogrames, which was absorbed by Atari a while back. Atari no longer sells copies of the game. (Don't know where the reviewer got his.)
Of course, when I read "Shadow of the Comet is an excellent game and is a must-have for every serious adventurer," I wanna have it. And guess what happens when I do a google search? (There was only one listing on Ebay -- some guy in London selling a copy for $6).
Yeah, maybe this is a thing left best unsaid, like someone else suggested. Still, I think adventure gamers are left between a rock and a hard place when looking for good games.
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| 30 JUL 2004 at 4:23pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Yeah, maybe this is a thing left best unsaid, like someone else suggested. Still, I think adventure gamers are left between a rock and a hard place when looking for good games.
It's not just Adventure gamers - look at all the old console games (Coleco, Atari, NES, SNES, NeoGeo etc...) - that are no longer produced or sold. The sites that distribute them are routinely shut down.
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| 30 JUL 2004 at 9:14pm |
lakerzPrivate Detective
Posts : 654
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jujigatame (30 JUL 2004 12:31am)
If a game is no longer available for purchase by the publisher, I feel no moral qualms about downloading it. If they don't want my money, so be it.
The only problem with this is, why didn't you buy it when it was available? Why does a game company have to make every title they develop available for sale for all of eternity? That doesn't make sense to me.
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas...
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| 30 JUL 2004 at 9:31pm |
ThanandaJourneyman
Posts : 1168
Joined: 8 OCT 2003
Status : Online | lakerz,
And why spend money on something, you can , legally, get for free?
Personaly, I have no problems with cd- rips. The quality might be worse, but other than thet, it's fine
Do go on! I always yawn, when I'm fascinated!
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| 30 JUL 2004 at 11:33pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | The only problem with this is, why didn't you buy it when it was available? Why does a game company have to make every title they develop available for sale for all of eternity? That doesn't make sense to me.
They don't have to sell it forever. That's unreasonable. What's also unreasonable is deciding its unprofitable to make a game available for sale but then deciding to attack websites making it available free of charge.
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| 31 JUL 2004 at 12:26am |
mr_williIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 60
Joined: 10 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By lakerz (30 JUL 2004 9:13pm)
The only problem with this is, why didn't you buy it when it was available? Why does a game company have to make every title they develop available for sale for all of eternity? That doesn't make sense to me.
Because I was quite a bit younger when these games came out. And without a computer. I would've like to amassed my collection in 1992, but I think I was spending all my money on oxy pads.
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| 31 JUL 2004 at 8:24am |
| Deleted User | First of all I must say that I also sometimes download abandonware for PC and also video game ROM's for old consoles because it doesn't really interest me what the law says (am I an anarchist or criminal? I don't think so!) but lets face it - it is ILLEGAL the copyright holder has the copyright automatically for 76 years if he wants or not, but he can put an old game or movie into the public domain if he wishes but usually companies don't bother to do that because there might be a change to make big bucks with that old stuff one day. There might be some way for companies to uphold their rights in some countries for more then 70 years actually... Paramount was sued for using the Moriarty character from Sherlock Holmes and had to pay quite a lot. And don't worry when a company gets shut down there will be another company who buys the right for their stuff.
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| 31 JUL 2004 at 9:47am |
RecklessJourneyman
Posts : 962
Joined: 14 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Always funny that the same old arguments are presented in forums across the world about this subject
There is no such thing as Abandonware. It was made up to cover a while bunch of scenarios when something is vaguely considered unavailable. It has no legal standing.
However, the practise goes on and why shouldn't it?
I'd have thought publishers/developers would be keen to see themselves in good light with regards to old titles. Why don't they release them as Freeware - just like Revolution [and others] have done. This is an excellent solution! However, this only works if the people concerned still exist and all agree that it's a positive step!
I do download the occasional title however my preference is to own a boxed copy. Not in a collector way but 'cause I like the physical nature of purchasing something - note that I would *never* buy a commercial download-only title. Online auctions are the best place to pick up old titles but some go for silly money - and they're never usually *that* good. Personally, I don't see games software collections being the next antique but hey my great great grandchildren may argue otherwise
For people who just want to play the game, Abandonware is the chance that they would not have had otherwise.
[url=http://leisuresuitlarry.dyndns.org/]Leisure Suit Larry Archive Site[/url]&&[url=http://www.adamhearn.co.uk]Hearn Garage[/url]
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| 1 AUG 2004 at 1:55pm |
GarionIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 8
Joined: 7 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Nomad (29 JUL 2004 5:01pm)
Erm, you got a point there. Something I completely forgot about, namely liquidated companies without legal heirs. Whom do the rights fall onto in that case? I don't know.
Most likely the company went bankrupt so the rights belong to the former company's bank.
I assume banks are major copyright holders of games.
Garion
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| 1 AUG 2004 at 2:08pm |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | No wonder I can never get through to my bank manager.
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| 1 AUG 2004 at 4:00pm |
ThanandaJourneyman
Posts : 1168
Joined: 8 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Garion (1 AUG 2004 1:55pm)
I assume banks are major copyright holders of games.
Garion
In that case, bring on the abandonware!
I'll be more than happy to rip off my bank, just as it rips me off all the time!
Do go on! I always yawn, when I'm fascinated!
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| 1 AUG 2004 at 4:40pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By mr_willi (31 JUL 2004 12:26am)
Because I was quite a bit younger when these games came out. And without a computer. I would've like to amassed my collection in 1992, but I think I was spending all my money on oxy pads.
I may not even been born already...
I think that's the biggest point here, lakerz. Some of us never had a chance to get some games.
@Ogre
I'm shocked? You are a criminal yourself?
Wasn't it you who told me that abandonware is a thing from hell? Or did you just like to have an argument?
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 4 AUG 2004 at 7:54am |
| Deleted User | Well we all do something illegal once in a while if every little crime would be punished only some nuns wouldn't be in jail I presume.
Besides that laws are different in every country so its not really a matter of right or wrong it all lies within the eye of the beholder. Or worse in the hands of the rulers of a society. Hmm I guess many of us have a small anarchist in oneself sometimes.
Besides that I never said I don't download "illegal" stuff I just said that it is illegal... (not to worry I've collected presumable over a 1000 originals during the last 20 years so I make sure the companies get their share from me).
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| 4 AUG 2004 at 11:33am |
BunnyFuFuSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 270
Joined: 11 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Abondonware is free and legal as long as the companies don't take actions
Games like GK1 used to be abandonware, until Sierra took action. When I see a game at home of the underdogs I download it.
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| 4 AUG 2004 at 11:39am |
| Deleted User | you are wrong... when police officers or attorneys get to know about that they have the duty to take actions as well even if the company involved doesn't give a damn.
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