| 15 JUN 2004 at 11:59am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Question:
Is this a thread where we can only discuss intelligent movies or is this a thread where we are required to intelligently discuss any movie?
I only ask because last night I heard Independent Day described as a movie all about Bush and Cheney and the Americans' over-consuming of natural world resources. There was more but I was so totally zonked out to have missed this real meaning I thought it was cowboys and indians with space ships, frankly), that I tuned out.
I was wondering what the general world opinion of this movies was. Is it as harmless as a packet of weetbix or is it really carrying a subversive political message?
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| 15 JUN 2004 at 12:12pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | @Caroline
Independence Day is an older movie. Bush and Cheney...huh?
Roland Emmerich is not a sage, is he?
Maybe some of the aliens are Bush & Cheney.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 15 JUN 2004 at 12:28pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Garfield. The. Movie.
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| 15 JUN 2004 at 9:04pm |
InieJourneyman
Posts : 856
Joined: 27 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Now I don't want to go totally off topic but where is Dom? ???
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| 15 JUN 2004 at 11:06pm |
PatvsSpace Cadet
Posts : 154
Joined: 4 DEC 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Caroline (15 JUN 2004 11:59am)
I only ask because last night I heard Independent Day described as a movie all about Bush and Cheney and the Americans' over-consuming of natural world resources. There was more but I was so totally zonked out to have missed this real meaning (I thought it was cowboys and indians with space ships, frankly), that I tuned out.
I was wondering what the general world opinion of this movies was. Is it as harmless as a packet of weetbix or is it really carrying a subversive political message?
I think you mean The Day After Tomorrow. Not Independence Day.
And there was a strong message in The Day After Tomorrow. The vice-president (in the film) resembled Cheney. He also talked about the "importance of the American economy!" (being more important than preserving nature) And he was proved wrong in the film.
Also in the film Mexico closed down their borders for USA immigrants. (and it was even later mentioned in the film Mexico opened them again, but only after the USA remitted Mexico of all their 'debts'.)
Greenpeace (and other organisations) all embraced The Day After Tomorrow, to improve the awareness among the general public (again) that we (and especially the Americans) are over-consuming the worlds natural resources.
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| 15 JUN 2004 at 11:12pm |
| Deleted User | [smiley=offtopic.gif] [smiley=shaking_head.gif] [smiley=shrug.gif]
I've heard that films pants, really really bad...
From a ton of people...
My girlfriend told me one guy went into work, and was really grumpy all day. When someone asked what's the matter, he said he was pee'd off because no-one had warned him how bad it was and he wanted his time back from watching it!
Currently got hold of The Cat Returns by Studio Ghibli (the sequel to a Miyazaki film) which I'm looking forward to watching. I've also got The Good, The Bad And The Ugly to watch which I still haven't done. Which is appalling for a film addict like myself.
BTW I noticed Dom's not here too. It's beautiful weather here in the UK so my bet he's outside enjoying it, like I've been.
AND... no-one noticed I was talking about another film in the opening post? Frankly I'm a bit annoyed no-one wants to discuss it! It was an amazing, intense film and I want to know if there's any more out there of a similar bent.
Although a big ROFL to Caroline for introducing politics into this thread. You've got to spend more time in here, girl!
[smiley=rofl.gif]
DOUBLE-AND-AND... Garfield is an AWFUL movie. Although Ebert liked it, but that doesn't say much.
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| 15 JUN 2004 at 11:19pm |
PatvsSpace Cadet
Posts : 154
Joined: 4 DEC 2002
Status : Online | I loved Touching The Void, but I doubt many people saw it. I was especially intrigued what exactly the "correct protocol" is among mountaineers in such a situation?
Should the person that was dangling from the rope have cut the rope himself?
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 12:04am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I actually left after the first 30 minutes of the movie. From the scene at the begining where they discuss the Kyoto treaty and the US delegate stresses the economy as being more important, I knew I got suckered into someone's politcal agenda and that the U.S. was going to get portrayed as evil. After the tornados ripped through LA, it was time to go. The CG were so ridiculous in that part of the film, that any interest to see the rest of the film went away.
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 1:12am |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Monkey - you are a scholar sir, and a gentleman.
I've been out and about, as you say. Hot day in London, too hot to be indoors, just for comfort if nothing else. In fact it's still pretty warm now and it's nearing 2am. Hate it when it's like this.
Caroline - I think discussing intelligent movies, or discussing movies intelligently sound as good as each other. Either or both, more than welcome.
"Touching the Void" - oh boy. When they are ascending the ice field at the start of the film I distinctly remember feeling quite sick in the cinema at the sheer terrifying enormity of what they were doing. I would never ever have the nerve to climb a mountain. And the night in the crevasse. Sheer horror movie, never mind documentary.
I read the book a month or so after seeing the film - very good read, obviously adds some descriptive detail, but it doesn't hot you quite as hard as the film does. Seeing the scale and understanding what he actually experienced is brilliantly done in the film. Will you ever hear Boney M in the same way again?
"ay After Tomorrow" is deeply poor. I've a feeling I've already slagged it off somewhere on this forum, so I won't expend any more bytes on it.
As for recommendations - hmm. Well, best film I've seen recently is easily "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind", but going back a little bit... I thought "The Station Agent" was really good - amazing three central performances. Other highlights of this year for me- "ogville", "Big Fish", "21 Grams", "Shaun..".
Saw "Wonderland" recently too - good performance from Val Kilmer (always worth watching when he makes the effort). Clever film involving porn legend John Holmes with alternate possible truths about an infamous real life multiple homicide. An extremely disturbing last ten minutes as well, for anyone interested, but squemish.
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 1:20am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Dom
thank you so much for setting that right for me. As I said, it was a glancing comment I picked up. My Floozie brain mangled it good and proper. They even mentioned that someone looked like Cheney - I wouldn't know him to fall over. :-/
MD
Really my dear. I wasn't introducing politics. It was a genuine query about a movie. If anyone is going to know movies it's either of you two guys.
(Think about it MD. Since when have you known me to discuss anything political in one sentence?)
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 1:23am |
gailSchattenjger
Posts : 1659
Joined: 19 JAN 2004
Status : Offline | [smiley=offtopic.gif]Touching the Void is still on my list of movies to see.
The Day After Tomorrow also showed the residents of the US pouring illegally into Mexico. It smacked of "how does it feel to have the shoe on the other foot?" Mexicans come to the US to escape their economy and the US citizens, "who live the good life", were escaping nature. Ironic in a way.
The scene where the ship floats down the city street was pretty entertaining too along with the instant freeze scenes.
As far as the US being portrayed as "evil": the US is a huge country and does waste resources in a huge way. To me the director showed how quickly nature could bring not just the US but every country north of the equator to its knees in a matter of days. The director did get a few jabs in I agree, but based more on fact than fiction, imo.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other screaming, "WOO HOO what a ride!!!
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 8:44am |
| Deleted User | Really my dear. I wasn't introducing politics. It was a genuine query about a movie. If anyone is going to know movies it's either of you two guys.
(Think about it MD. Since when have you known me to discuss anything political in one sentence?)
Teehee! That's true.
Actually, TDAT sounds quite interesting in a political stance, just I know it's a godawful film. Actually, I heard The Chronciles Of Riddick isn't much better, which is a shame as Pitch Black was great...
Oh yeah, Dom - you know FOPP? Near Forbidden Planet, kind of opposite the Odeon on the quiet part of Shaftesbury Avenue. I got Pitch Black there for a fiver, and highly recommend it if you've got a few holes in your collection.
I really want to see the Station Agent, heard many good things about it. Big Fish, I'm not so sure of - I'm not a fan of whimsy and it looks just that.
ATM I'm really looking forward to SpiderMan 2 which some critics are proclaiming as the best sequel, if not better, since The Empire Strikes Back. Loved the first, so really looking forward to it.
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 12:42pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | The Day After Tomorrow is indeed a propaganda film and a very just one (hehe, glad you agree, Gail ), and if it reachers the general public and convinces them, I think it succeeded.
But the film doesn't work for me, because the action is fake. Like that instant freeze - impossible. And closing a door when it's following you is very, very silly. And impossible.
Hehe, that just spoils the film for me, since it only depends on things like that. I can bear a lot of incorrect SF, as long as it doesn't fiddle with laws of nature and makes silly things like this with it.
Ha, think of the hot air streams going to the cold! You'd be sucked to the cold instead of it slowly going to you.
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 12:58pm |
| Deleted User | I saw that bit in a promotional trailer. I mean, yeah... "what if"! That could never happen - like closing a door would stop an instant freeze or something.
You hit the nail on the head there, Parrot. That movie sounds like utter guff.
Guff = smelly fart.
I've also got Tokyo Godfathers to watch now. I'll let you guys know what I think after I've seen it.
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 1:14pm |
szcaxJourneyman
Posts : 935
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | About TDAT: I agree that it is a terrible movie, but why are so many people shaken by the fact that political motives were involved in making the film? Think of how vanilla films would be if they were made by people who said, "well, I want this film to appeal to as many people as possible, so I'm going to sanatize it so that no controversial issues, nor any of my personal beliefs or values are present." Hate the movie because of its hokey script and bad acting, not because the film included a message that you disagree with. It's like shunning A Passion of the Christ becuase the director was obviously trying to indoctrinate the viewer with Chrisitanity, or turning off A Clockwork Orange because it questions your thoughts on violence as an expression of free will.
--rant over--
I just got a dvd player for my computer, so I've been on a movie (re)watching spree. I watched One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest again, and was once again reminded of what an incredible film it is. If you haven't seen it... well... do so. It's one of the few movies that manages to be funny, powerful, thought-provoking, and still manages to hold your attention for the whole time.
And of course I can't let a movie thread go by without mentioning Requiem for a Dream. Just see it already. You'll understand.
New movies though? Hmmm, I haven't seen any good ones recently, although I'm looking forward to Fahrenheit 9/11 and Supersize Me. Fox even gave a positive review of F9/11! Imagine that!
Black holes are where God divided by zero
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 2:49pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | @szcax
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest is one of my favorite movies. Although I only recently have seen it for the first time. Pretty late. But I'm certain it will stay that way.
And it's not far from the truth, I can tell you that much. I know people that have been in the same situation as Jack Nicholson's character...and all of this can happen to you. There is no way out. They make no difference between insane and mentally ill or just pschychologically temporary illness (like depression).
Very clever movie.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 3:43pm |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By monkeydude (16 JUN 2004 8:44am)
Oh yeah, Dom - you know FOPP? Near Forbidden Planet, kind of opposite the Odeon on the quiet part of Shaftesbury Avenue. I got Pitch Black there for a fiver, and highly recommend it if you've got a few holes in your collection.
Know it well. They're pretty good across the board in there - CDs, Books...
I really want to see the Station Agent, heard many good things about it. Big Fish, I'm not so sure of - I'm not a fan of whimsy and it looks just that.
I'd recommend them both. Big Fish is not your typical Tim Burton movie - he's big on his style but leaves reality at the door - but in this film he actually manages to move you as well as entertain you, by dividing the film into two specific styles - the reality and the fictional. I found myself extremely surprised to be extremely moved by it. Oh, and Ewan McGregor gives an utterly charming performance... I'm not a fan of his recent attempts, but he was excellent in this.
ATM I'm really looking forward to SpiderMan 2 which some critics are proclaiming as the best sequel, if not better, since The Empire Strikes Back. Loved the first, so really looking forward to it.
Why do the rumour mongers always go on about ESB when they want to say how exciting and dark a sequel is going to be? Raises expectations that are rarely met. Hard to find a more downbeat (or wonderful) end to a sequel than ESB. I didn't like Spiderman, but the trailer for number 2 looks promising, if only for Alfred Molina. A touch of class.
Cuckoo's Nest is a film i find hard to like. It's just so bleak! Amazing performances across the board, but not something I look forward to watching again. To see a young Brad Dourif, oscar nominated as Billy makes you lament the direction his career took. Some people would argue a bit part villain in The Two Towers and a part in Myst III is pretty good, but not when you see what he was really capable of. Other great Brad roles - Hazel in "Wise Blood", the Gemini Killer in "Exorcist III" (no really!! it's awesome!!).
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 6:32pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | I wonder how Fahrenheit 911 by Micheal Moore is... anyone seen it?
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| 16 JUN 2004 at 7:21pm |
anthonyJourneyman
Posts : 1270
Joined: 11 JUN 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dombrewer (16 JUN 2004 3:43pm)
Cuckoo's Nest is a film i find hard to like. It's just so bleak! Amazing performances across the board, but not something I look forward to watching again. To see a young Brad Dourif, oscar nominated as Billy makes you lament the direction his career took.
Yes the overall story is bleak, but some scenes from that movie are, in my view, among the most uplifting and inspiring film sequences ever made. For instance, the scene where Nurse Ratchett won't turn on the tv for the World Series baseball game because the Chief voted too late. So McMurphy sits in front of the blank tv screen and pretends to be an announcer calling the game. Pretty soon all the patients come to believe they are actually watching the game, and Nurse Ratchett glares icily at them. Isn't that a great scene?
P.S. Brad Dourif was also very good in Ragtime, which is also by Milos Forman, I think.
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| 17 JUN 2004 at 12:05am |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Parrot: yet to see the new MM. Not even sure when it is being released over here... :-/
Anthony: Quite right! A great scene. But images of electroshock therapy and abject humiliation linger longer in my memory when I think of the film.
Have you read the book, by the way? Very different in ways, especially the description of Randall - and from a narrative viewpoint, but great.
Never seen Ragtime, you know. Now I know Brad's in it, I may well check it out.
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| 17 JUN 2004 at 2:25am |
anthonyJourneyman
Posts : 1270
Joined: 11 JUN 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dombrewer (17 JUN 2004 12:04am)
Have you read the book, by the way? Very different in ways, especially the description of Randall - and from a narrative viewpoint, but great.
No Dom, I never read the book. How is the portrayal of Randall different?
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| 17 JUN 2004 at 2:34am |
szcaxJourneyman
Posts : 935
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I thought McMurphy translated excellently from book to screen, that they captured his persona perfectly! Of course the book is better, more in-depth (especially about Chief Bromden -- he's actually the narrator of the book and they give him a background story), but without making the movie 8 hours long, they did a great job, even though they tragically cut one of the Nurse's key lines near the end that causes McMurphy to do his big thing. Oh well, a great movie nonetheless.
Black holes are where God divided by zero
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| 17 JUN 2004 at 3:17am |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Well, without leafing through my copy I think Randall was described quite differently to the Jaaaaaack we all know and love. Physically mainly. I have to leave that with you Szcax - I honestly don't recall in detail.
Because I knew the film first, as many people will do, I was inserting the images of the screen actors to the fictional counterparts and found much of Kesey's details clashed with my pre-conceived ideas.
A bit like reading Jaws after seeing the film and being more than surprised at the radically different final chapters...
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