| 14 MAY 2004 at 7:18pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | INCONCEIVABLE
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
|
| 14 MAY 2004 at 7:20pm |
| Deleted User | Exactly, Lucien. Only in this case, the word is "selfish."
Maybe he is confusing it with "shellfish?" He is saying that we are being "tight as clams" with our money by not throwing it away on games we don't like or want?
|
| 14 MAY 2004 at 7:50pm |
DJ SouzaJourneyman
Posts : 1452
Joined: 19 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I think that action gamers are being selfish because they do not buy adventure games without action elements. But they really should buy them, even if they don't like playing them, so publishers would make more adventure games, and isn't that what EVERYBODY wants?
[smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif] [smiley=boggled.gif]
[center]DIEGO J. SOUZA&&Consulting Detective for Hire[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/YaBBImages/smilies//detective.gif[/img]&&&&[img]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Fairygdmther/Avatars/A-G-E-S_SIG.jpg[/img][/center]
|
| 14 MAY 2004 at 8:12pm |
| Deleted User | Me gamers eyes are all sparkly for Dreamfall. [smiley=love.gif]
My AGers eyes are a little skewed. [smiley=zombie.gif]
I'll admit it, I'm starting to get confused messages about it. But I know, personally, I may really like this game.
BTW the new HL2 videos are brill! More adventurey cut scenes than most adventures. Shame some will miss out on them because it's an action title.
www.gamespot.com/pc and stream the video's. Nice.
|
| 14 MAY 2004 at 8:20pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4940
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By BacardiJim (14 MAY 2004 9:30am)
You are entitled to believe this to your heart's content. However, having spent several years selling games at the retail end, writing for adventure games, and discussing adventure games with other "adventure gamers" through clubs, newsletters, IRC and now adventure game sites, I can assure you that you are completely mistaken in this belief.
You are correct that there are plenty of "adventure gamers" who fit this description. You are further correct that as a steady stream of younger fans raised on action/platform games discover adventure games that this number is slowly building.
But you are wildly incorrect if you believe that this type of gamer represents the majority of "adventure gamers." I'm sorry to disillusion you, but they actually represent a small (but slowly growing) minority.
Along these lines (and since I'm determined to detrail this to be another Myst/Riven discussion ):
Having finally completed a complete run-thru of Riven-DVD, it was time to put away all things Riven. Before doing so, I decided to show my wife all my notes which consisted of 7 4x6in cards and a small note book with 40 pages of teeny-tiny writing with all sorts of complex diagrams outlining the Star-Chamber (as I call it), the Submarine tracks and all the other stuff. My wife, who doesn't have the slightest interest in these games or what I do with them, said, in total surprise, does everybody do this? I replied something to the effect that, no, just a select crazy few like the bunch that's on that forum I spend time on!
So, IMHO, true adventure gamers are like no others and although we may play some action games, the fact is, if you're going to play these games the way they were meant to be played, you don't have that much time for other types of games.
The future ain't what it used to be!
|
| 14 MAY 2004 at 8:41pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Completely off topic. If this thread still has one ???
Seeing as adventure gamers love to write down notes and maps etc when playing the games.
Why don't adventure games have notepads that you can call up at will and type messages or draw maps like mspaint. That would be completely cool.
Has anyone came across a game with that feature. I can't remember one.
Anyway back to whatever we were discussing. (This weeks Jerry Springer: the I have been hiding a dark secret. I like action in my adventure games by Osiris episode)
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
|
| 15 MAY 2004 at 3:21am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By BacardiJim (14 MAY 2004 6:53pm)
It is a simple medical fact that reaction time slows with age as well. This is not "stereotyping." It is fact.
http://biae.clemson.edu/bpc/bp/Lab/110/reaction.htm#Age
http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/nc/reaction_time_test.asp
http://www.longroad.ac.uk/accreditation/subject_physical_education/acquisition_skill/information_processing/reaction.htm
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:UYgck6rEhKoJ:www.psych.umn.edu/courses/spring04/gershensonc/psy5138/attention.doc+age+%22reaction+time%22&hl=en
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...
That would be good logic if we were talking about a FPS, but you don't need "great reflexes" for the kinds of action included in adventure games.
Now we have to clear something up everyone. If the game is 50/50 blend of action and adventure (action-adventures) I think yes, you'd be justified in not buying it if you hate action. There really isn't a fine line between pure and total action AGs--its more of a grey area IMO. But when we have games like GK, KQ, TLE, where only about 1/8 of the total gameplay is spent on actual action I couldn't justify not giving the game a try. This is the sort of thing I'm talking about, I concede if an adventure is gushing with action and you hate action, then I can understand. But refusing to buy a game simply because you have to dirty up with some elbow grease at the game's end or only during a few parts of it just seems over the top to me.
But I do love the new "speculations" being tossed around that TLJ II will allow you to choose. To me this would be the ultimate adventure, just as TLE allowed you to script the story and choose your courses as you play the game. Its amazing in heinsight, just how far ahead of its time TLE really was. In fact it was the only AG I can think of that I actually dreamt one night of playing its sequel. ...sigh... only in my dreams.
|
| 15 MAY 2004 at 7:25am |
Speaker4DeadIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 53
Joined: 6 APR 2003
Status : Online | I'm gonna write a full-length reply later, but I just have one quick comment, because it's occured multiple times...
heinsight?
|
| 15 MAY 2004 at 7:27am |
| Deleted User | hehehe..... the benefits of a liberal arts education, I guess. It seemed too easy a target. [smiley=laughing.gif]
|
| 15 MAY 2004 at 12:56pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Speaker4Dead (15 MAY 2004 7:25am)
I'm gonna write a full-length reply later, but I just have one quick comment, because it's occured multiple times...
heinsight?
That's for those with their head up their heinie (*ss). Hindsight is for the rest of us, who look back wishing we had done something differently.
FGM
|
| 15 MAY 2004 at 3:38pm |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Oh, stop it with the "what all adventure gamers want" and "what sells" stuff, give it a rest. I'm not interested, and attempts to convince me that anyone here knows what "all" adventure gamers want, and what sells, it isn't working. If, for some reason, you still want to give some overreaching argument, try to do it with the utmost civility and the recognition of everyone's else's point of view. And of course, I don't take kindly to anyone criticising anyone else's spelling or grammar. It's an internet board, and in the excitement of posting, sometimes people make mistakes. Give it a rest.
If you have looked at info about Dreamfall, and think you are going to like it or not like it, say why "you" think you going to like it or not (you might not want to be completely "sure" about your opinion or belief, since the game is not out yet). I look to this board to see the opinions people have about the games they play, and even about their opinions of games that they are going to play.
As for me, I think Dreamfall looks really interesting. I like how the game looks, the story, and I can't wait to see how the gameplay is incorporated into the game. Can I go slowly through the game? As I said before, it's not action per se that is hard for me in a game, but it interferes with my desire to slowly progress through a game and not have to do anything that requires a quick reaction time. I want to see if Dreamfall will support the way I generally (there are always exceptions) like to play a game. What are the "puzzles" (and I use that term loosely) going to be like in the game? Will there really be multiple ways to solve a problem - if so - wow, that's wonderful. What's the dialogue and character interaction going to be like (please, oh please, make those conversations and those expositions shorter). Will I get to find out out April is doing?
Regards, mszv
|
| 15 MAY 2004 at 4:18pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Osiris (15 MAY 2004 3:21am)
Now we have to clear something up everyone. If the game is 50/50 blend of action and adventure (action-adventures) I think yes, you'd be justified in not buying it if you hate action. There really isn't a fine line between pure and total action AGs--its more of a grey area IMO. But when we have games like GK, KQ, TLE, where only about 1/8 of the total gameplay is spent on actual action I couldn't justify not giving the game a try. This is the sort of thing I'm talking about, I concede if an adventure is gushing with action and you hate action, then I can understand. But refusing to buy a game simply because you have to dirty up with some elbow grease at the game's end or only during a few parts of it just seems over the top to me.
Woah, is it possible you finally understand what we are talking about?
Great!
Few people complain about a little bit of action in adventure games. Well, it's best not to have them, cause I've never truly seen a clever use of them and a neccessary one above that, but who says he/she would never touch a game with those?
Obviously, close to nobody, because most of us played the "classics" (I still haven't played a LOT of the Sierra games myself, so feel free to not count me in).
The rant is about the ever-growing trend to include "real" action elements into adventure games. And if I understood correctly what you just said you are sympathetic to people not liking action-adventures (either if they expect an adventure and don't get one OR if they don't like them at all)...right?
Well, Dreamfall is an action-adventure, it's called that on the official page. Just AG is claiming something different.
Ha, you agreed!
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
|
| 15 MAY 2004 at 6:41pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By mszv (15 MAY 2004 3:38pm)
Oh, stop it with the "what all adventure gamers want" and "what sells" stuff, give it a rest. I'm not interested, and attempts to convince me that anyone here knows what "all" adventure gamers want, and what sells, it isn't working. If, for some reason, you still want to give some overreaching argument, try to do it with the utmost civility and the recognition of everyone's else's point of view. And of course, I don't take kindly to anyone criticising anyone else's spelling or grammar. It's an internet board, and in the excitement of posting, sometimes people make mistakes. Give it a rest.
"Please, gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 2:44am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By BacardiJim (15 MAY 2004 7:27am)
hehehe..... the benefits of a liberal arts education, I guess. It seemed too easy a target. [smiley=laughing.gif]
Do you also fly your paper airplanes into easy targets at school too? Whatever you may feel toward young males, you've just proven you are less mature than this one.
Next time I'll be sure to run my posts through Word to make sure the grammer and spelling is all perfect for you. After all, those "little trivial things" just completely undermine everything I say, don't they? : : :
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 3:03am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Osiris (16 MAY 2004 2:43am)
Next time I'll be sure to run my posts through Word to make sure the grammer and spelling is all perfect for you.
Do you perhaps mean "grammar"?
After all, those "little trivial things" just completely undermine everything I say, don't they? : : :
Not completely, no. But in a significant way they do. If you can't even master your native language (I'm assuming you're a native English speaker), it does undermine everything you say, whether you like it or not (and it's quite obvious you don't). Although form and content should be more or less separate in theory, in practice they're intertwined, and it is almost impossible for readers to abstract the content and disregard its form.
Personally I'd suggest that you learn to spell properly, since spell checkers can play some nasty tricks on you. They're helpful but can't be trusted.
Feel free to completely disregard this advice.
I forgot my sig.
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 3:06am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Osiris (16 MAY 2004 2:43am)
Do you also fly your paper airplanes into easy targets at school too? Whatever you may feel toward young males, you've just proven you are less mature than this one.
Next time I'll be sure to run my posts through Word to make sure the grammer and spelling is all perfect for you. After all, those "little trivial things" just completely undermine everything I say, don't they? : : :
Grammar is spelt with two "a"s, not with an a and an e. Also, there is an error in subject-verb agreement. If the subject of the sentence is "grammar and spelling", the appropriate verb would be "are", not "is."
[smiley=rofl.gif]
Sorry, couldn't resist. By the way, I'm younger than you are and have never had any problems with BJ, so I wouldn't go accusing him of ageism in every post.
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 3:08am |
| Deleted User | Whoa, I'm turning into Michal! Freaky.
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 3:51am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4940
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Fickfack (16 MAY 2004 3:08am)
Whoa, I'm turning into Michal! Freaky.
From now on, I dub thee FickfackN!
The future ain't what it used to be!
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 4:02am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Fickfack (16 MAY 2004 3:05am)
Grammar is spelt with two "a"s, not with an a and an e. Also, there is an error in subject-verb agreement. If the subject of the sentence is "grammar and spelling", the appropriate verb would be "are", not "is."
[smiley=rofl.gif]
Sorry, couldn't resist. By the way, I'm younger than you are and have never had any problems with BJ, so I wouldn't go accusing him of ageism in every post.
Well, of course not. Why would he insult you with an ageist or sexist attack. You're on his side and egomaniacs seldomly attack one of their own, regardless. And it's not just me, this guy has a history of ageism. Just visit the adventuregamers forum and check his history out. (I know, you don't end sentences with prepositions, but I'm not writing a term paper just now, and this is for my recreation, so I'll write as I damned well please) He's shown his bigoted teeth more than a couple of times. In addition, as this discussion has totally gone to hell, this will be my final post in this thread. Some of you ppl really need to get and gain perspective. If you are so vain and elitist that you can't handle sloppy grammar, I really don't want anything to do with you. Fortunately, there are more inviting people on this forum to make posting here worth it. I am not going to trouble myself with trivial grammar checks just to appease those of you who are so anal you can't see past your own shadows.
But in HINDSIGHT, this was never about the grammar and you know it. Furthermore, it just goes to show how small some of you really are.
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 6:12am |
Speaker4DeadIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 53
Joined: 6 APR 2003
Status : Online | I only mentioned heinsight because it was such a weird mistake and it was occuring multiple times...that's not like a typo, that's not knowing a word but using it.
The point I was trying to make that got lost in all the noise is that I think it's a fair argument to say that hybrids are the way of the future even for AGers who don't like action, because they are all working toward the ultimate hybrid that works just as well as an action game as it does an AG, depending on how you want to play. The problem with insisting that AGs remain AGs and action games remain action games is that it is basically dooming AGs to low-budget bargain-bin faire...and if you're fine with it, that's cool, but me, I'd like to see more big budget top developer AGs with production values alongside those of the biggest games. The entire trend in hybriding is towards expanding gameplay options, allowing for either slow puzzle play or fast action play...action adventures are the adventure gamers best hope
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 3:29pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | @Michal and company
I know you guys (the alleged wiseass connection )...but that's just silly!
Like Osiris said, it's totally anal and uncalled for. This might be the Hot Spot and all, but anyway...I don't join in with something like that.
I wouldn't stand a chance anyway, I'm not even native. :
[smiley=nono.gif]
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 3:35pm |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Excellent points Speaker4Dead!
I don't think adventure games are going to go away at all - as far as I can tell, the genre is doing OK. However, Speaker4Dead has a good point that they they might not be "big budget", fantastic use of new techonology games, if gameplay doesn't change a bit.
I'm not into action games but, along with games that use more limited technology (still can be great games, I love Dark Fall, I think it's a fantastic game), I want a fantastic looking, really immersive, really "alive" game, big budget, great use of new technology. If that means some action, well OK.
You know action games often have "cheats" that get you over the hard action parts. Not everyone who plays action games is spectacular at them. If I am playing a game that has significant action, I'd like a few cheats to be built into the game (you can't have them, unless they are built into the game), so I can take the easy route.
Oh yes - I don't have a "crystal ball" - I don't know what sells, really.
Maybe this will be the year I finally extend my game playing to other sort of games, such as RPGs.
Regards, mszv
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 3:44pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Elfstone (16 MAY 2004 3:29pm)
Like Osiris said, it's totally anal and uncalled for.
Anal maybe, but uncalled for certainly not. Like I said, form and content are inseparable, whether you like it or not.
I wouldn't stand a chance anyway, I'm not even native. :
You're not native? I thought everyone was native somewhere
Anyway that gives you an advantage. For one thing, your spelling is very good, and for another, if you make some mistakes, no one will hold it against you.
I forgot my sig.
|
| 16 MAY 2004 at 4:24pm |
| Deleted User | Personally, I think that anyone who had a little fun with "heinsight" was perfectly justified in having a chuckle or two at Osiris's expense. Remember that Osiris was the one who originally flaunted his education in order to bolster his arguments. "Hey, I'm a Poli. Sci. major. Listen to me." He used this as a springboard to lecture Ksandra (and others) with his vast knowledge of polling methodology and market economies. Yet his repeated usage of "heinsight" indicated not just simple misspelling, but a complete misunderstanding of the word itself. If one is going to tout one's education/intellect in a debate, one should expect barbs when one shows just how weak that education/intellect really is.
Fair enough?
|
