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| 12 APR 2004 at 4:34am |
adventuredogGuild Master
Posts : 3255
Joined: 14 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Sorry Monster - I missed your point. I clicked to the first review your mentioned and don't understand your objection to it. ???
Biased? We are all biased when we state our "opinions"
Spoiler-spawner? idn't find any.
Rude? ???
Inaccurate? Again, where?
Unreliable?
I read the second review you referred to also. Again, I do not understand your objections. I will not bother with a point to point. I wasn't going to respond a all but I don't understand what has prompted the bashing. ???
I think that you could be missing the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) humor/satire/wordplay that Ray uses in his articles and reviews by taking his sentences out of context. This may be easy if English is not your native language.
You are entitled to your opinion of course - as Ray is . Why be nasty?
Still adventuring after all these years!
Patiently awaiting The Last Crown: Haunting of Hallowed Isle, and Bracken Tor...
... and Asylum if it's not tooooo scary...
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| 12 APR 2004 at 4:42am |
Bob_the_BuilderJourneyman
Posts : 956
Joined: 25 APR 2003
Status : Online | I think that the reason why Monkey Island got a C and Phantasblah 2 got a B- was because Ray's grading scale changed over time. I could be wrong though.
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
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| 12 APR 2004 at 5:36am |
gatorlawSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 377
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline |
He has written 142 some odd reviews (and that's just for this one site alone) and you select two of those and try to wage a personal diatribe against Ray based on what?
You made this telling comment He is biased, spoiler-spawner, rude, inaccurate and unreliable.
Ray "pisses you off" - sounds like a bias to me,
spoiler spawner - Hmm well you didn't give specifics on that one
rude - well from the contents and wording of your "post" you have definitely qualified yourself as an expert on rudeness.
inaccurate - The TLJ piece you reference as proof of "inaccuracy" or whatever was written by Randy S. NOT Ray Ivey. So you got the dibs on that one too.
Seems to me that all the complaints you have flung at Ray - are fair labels for your own posting here.
One last thing....
Rarely I see him talks about the story of a game, and his main factors seems to be the graphics and the way the protagonist looks.
Rarely - you mean you have actually read all 143 of his reviews and all his past work for other sites and other critical articles across his career - analyzed them for your shopping list of grievous reviewer acts - and now feel pretty sure that he "rarely" does any particular act?
Now you really havn't read all that writing. You haven't really analyzed all that work.
You read a few reviews or even several reviews of games that you held a different view about. You took exception to his assessment of these games. Fair enough - but instead of whining and ranting why not go write a counter review and constructively contribute.
http://www.culpainnata.com&&&&Perfect world, or perfect nightmare?
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| 12 APR 2004 at 6:12am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Monster (11 APR 2004 5:45pm)
Now, to be subtle: This reviewer pisses me off (I'll probably have to modify this later).
He is biased, spoiler-spawner, rude, inaccurate and unreliable.
Yes, you will probably need to modify "THIS LATER" once you learn the meaning of the word subtle, and how you are anything butt.
Can I wait in line to point out the definition in the dictionary, or do you have an on-line option?
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| 12 APR 2004 at 6:25am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Hang on everyone before we string her up (yet again).
Let's remember poor little Ana's background. She's 14 and living in a terribly stressful country, taught the language and doctrine of hatred daily in school.....
It's only natural that such a 14 year old should feel she has the 'right' to bash a working adult, for work that has gained him the respect of quite a few other adults.
I say natural because over the past year I have come to expect nothing else from this person.
Monster,
Adventuredog and Gatorlaw have given you the courtesy of pointing out not only that you are wrong - but why you are wrong. Take heed and learn. This pouting and constant hatred is getting boring. I'm beginning to suspect you have a learning difficulty. >
It's just a hint, but perhaps if you word your post as if you were speaking it directly to Ray's face, you might then stumble across the correct tone and vocabulary.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 7:19am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Well, I wasn't even going to dignify this thread with a reply! Quite amazed really, to the extent that I stopped even reading your "Ray bashing" Ana (Monster) after the third paragraph! Goodness, you're not usually out and out rude and your thread here seems quite uncalled for - perhaps you've been having am extra stressful day and don't have anyone you can legitimately attack at home, but that's no excuse for this sort of rant.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 10:43am |
| Deleted User | ~~ Caroline ~~
I SINCERELY hope I misunderstood you, since I was completely under the impression that you were a very intelligent and fair minded person.
(1) Whether a person likes Ray Ivey’s Reviews &/or agrees or disagrees with the majority of his gradings is a matter of purely personal opinion.
(2) Writing in such a personally insulting fashion as Monster has done, is churlish (to say the least!)… and I neither like nor appreciate it! It is however quite prevalent amongst youngsters and teenagers … maybe naturally so as a sort of rebellion against adult authoritarianism. But it also rears its ugly head occasionally amongst adults, who IMHO ought to know much better!
BUT … I am TOTALLY SHOCKED at your statement ..........................
Let's remember poor little Ana's background. She's 14 and living in a terribly stressful country, taught the language and doctrine of hatred daily in school.....
I have taught in that “terribly stressful country” (Israel) for nearly 45 years and NEVER have I (or any member of staff, or any pupil) taught THE **SLIGHTEST** “doctrine of hatred daily in school" .
You have got this mixed up with ALL of the surrounding (Arab) countries.
I would appreciate some proof to the contrary of my above contention … or else a retraction of the offensive statement.
An apology would not be amiss either.
P.S. Most people are not absolutely perfect. This certainly includes myself. But it also includes the past behaviour of the writer’s (Caroline's) nation towards their original indigenous population … and their country is FAR from unique in this respect.
And please don't repeat the cop-out " The past is (only) 'history' " ... so many nearly insoluble problems in our word today are rooted in the near or not too distant past!
P.P.S. I am not supporting the facts of Monster’s post and certainly not her tone.
ADDENDUM :- Monster ....... I don't see why this topic should be locked (as yet anyway).
Maybe it should be shifted to the "Hot Spot".
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| 12 APR 2004 at 10:46am |
| Deleted User | Yes, I do know the meaning of the word 'subtle', and I know it's uttered 'Sutl, but with all due respect, I WAS subtle.
I'm sure that if anyone else would have written this then it wouldn't make such a fuss.
I ask you the JA administration to lock this thread, because the people on this forum are intolerable and imaptient toward other people's thoughts (Especially mine), and they're acting like babies.
So I couldn't render my opinion the way I wanted to. This is with no question of lack of time and resources, because, between you and me, I've got better things to do than writing on this forum.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 10:53am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By LenG (12 APR 2004 10:43am)
~~ Caroline ~~
BUT … I am TOTALLY SHOCKED at your statement ..........................
I have taught in that “terribly stressful country” (Israel) for nearly 45 years and NEVER have I (or any member of staff, or any pupil) taught THE **SLIGHTEST** “doctrine of hatred daily in school" .
You have got this mixed up with ALL of the surrounding (Arab) countries.
I would appreciate some proof to the contrary of my above contention … or else a retraction of the offensive statement.
An apology would not be amiss either.
Well LenG, from one's (And probably yours and mine) acquaintance with this forum, one should know how they can twist a whole reality.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 12:49pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | LenG
I greatly respect you for so many reasons, your intelligence, impartiality and the wisdom your life experiences have given you.
I have not raised teenagers, neither was I such a teenager myself. I never knew girls at school with such a capacity for rudeness and agression the like of which I have witnessed from Monster over the past year. I think you missed all the Hitler stuff last year.
It is Monster's continual rudeness that really gets me riled up. I admit it. If she were my daughter I'd take away her computer. Her behaviour would shame me.
She is more than welcome to join in our conversations as we have made plain many times. But blind insulting for no reason.... I don't believe it should be tolerated.
As an adult perhaps I should be able to 'turn a blind eye'. My failing. Had she been ranting about a game it wouldn't have worried me. But I was not the only gamer to object to her rant. I was the only one to let her piss me off though. >
I am unsure whether you read Monster's original post. Perhaps not because you don't mention it. It was grossly insulting. Filled with sweeping generalisations and not listing specific grievances, it smeared another forum member out of the blue, for no good reason. Are we to sit around and not take exception to this.
As Monster has now deleted her offensive post one must conclude that she too admits it was over the line - way over the line. In it she actually asserted that it was her right to criticise Ray Ivey. Hmmm.
Well, that's a two edged sword.
And my references to Monster's education relate to her constant assertion that her teachers were responsbile for her habit of ramming the Holocaust down our throats last year and her insistance that we account for oursleves, that we visit all these sites etc, etc. Len, it's not news to most of us. We're all middle aged, our parents lived through the war.
At no time did I intend to suggest that Israeli teachers generally taught hatred. In fact the tone of that sentence was completely sarcastic relating specifically to her 'history' teacher, as frankly, I find it hard to believe all that Hitler stuff last year was from school.
And as someone who has enjoyed quite a bit of conversation with you and values your contribution to this forum and your company among us, I freely apologise to you if anything I have said has hurt your feelings.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 1:15pm |
| Deleted User | ~~ Caroline ~~
I certainly accept your apology , and as a person who admires you (albeit from afar) I welcome the gracious way it was given.
Since you are probably about 7 or 8 hours ahead of us, I wanted to get this in before you go to sleep ... possibly too late already.
I agree with you 100% about rudeness, and I was present for any previous posts concerning Monster (Ana).
I want to get this off immediately, and will fill in the gaps for you ('your') tomorrow.
Best wishes ..... Len Green
ADDENDUM :- and I was present
Of couse I MEANT "NOT PRESENT". :
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| 12 APR 2004 at 1:19pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | There are far greater sins than rudeness. I like Monster. She's got spunk, and if she were my daughter, I would be a proud father. At 14, she is precociously articulate and forthright.
To whoever censored Monster's original post in this thread:
Shame on you! What are you protecting by this cowardly act of censorship? Ray Ivey's feelings? He is a critic. In his public reviews, he enjoys the freedom to rip apart the hard work of game developers. Yet, we are not allowed to criticize his product? Are game reviews sacrosanct on JA+?
I read Monster's original post in this thread last night. She criticized Ray's reviews, pointed out several specific problems, and even gave concrete examples of what bothers her. If you mistook it for a personal attack, then you are an idiot. Her message was thoughtful and honest. If you disagree with her, say so. To muzzle her is unfair, and you have utterly failed as a moderator.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 1:32pm |
ValGuild Master
Posts : 3464
Joined: 2 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I have but a couple of things to say as the original post has been deleted (why this was done, I do not know):
1) Monster and everyone: state your opinions to your heart's desire.
2) Monster and everyone: if you are rude in stating your opinions, expect to get called on it by other forum members and don't whine about being picked on when this happens. You asked for it.
There are people on this forum and other forums that seem to thrive on trouble-making. If this is not the case, and they are indeed merely stating passionate opinions on a subject, they need to take a step back, take a deep breath and actually think before they let their fingers fly.
And one last thought... read items 1 & 2 again.
We can be heroes, just for one day.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 1:35pm |
ValGuild Master
Posts : 3464
Joined: 2 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Crapstorm... if you look at the bottom of Monster's post... you'll see who "censored" it - « Last Edit: Today at 5:54am by Monster »
I think you owe me and the moderators an apology for even thinking we would do such things like delete someone's post. You evidently don't know what Randy and us at JA feel about censorship. The things you said were ugly and you didn't even know who deleted the post.
We can be heroes, just for one day.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 1:40pm |
| Deleted User | I agree one hundred percent with Crapstorm, which will not come as a surprise to the regulars.
I think Monster edited her post herself...?
I was there when she posted the Hitler stuff last year. Some people gave her a very hard time for trying to get her points across, and it is true that she didn't know when to stop. Everybody got tired of hearing the same sad and gruesome things over and over again, but I never felt she was out to hurt or insult anyone.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 1:48pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Valadmin (12 APR 2004 1:34pm)
I think you owe me and the moderators an apology for even thinking we would do such things like delete someone's post. You evidently don't know what Randy and us at JA feel about censorship. The things you said were ugly and you didn't even know who deleted the post.
Is my face red. Sorry, Val. I did not notice that Monster censored herself. I jumped to a conclusion, and I missed. Please forgive me. My diatribe was completely misdirected.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 1:58pm |
ValGuild Master
Posts : 3464
Joined: 2 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | No sweat, crapstorm. I know how you feel about censorship and it was a just feeling.
We can be heroes, just for one day.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 3:30pm |
| Deleted User | I [size=16]DO have more to say on the subject of whether or not Monster (or anybody else) has the ”right” to criticize Ray Ivey’s reviews … or those of some other (frequently sarcastic) reviewers who (as Crapstorm so rightly said) “rip apart the hard work of game developers” .
However, if Monster has a copy of her initial post, I would ask her to reinstate it.
Otherwise I see no point in continuing this thread!
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| 12 APR 2004 at 4:04pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | oh fight fight fight... bring it on
[img]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-006.gif[/img] [img]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-041.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-017.gif[/img] [img]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-090.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-027.gif[/img] [img]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-096.gif[/img]
oh, and everyone has EVERY right to state his/her opinion about a review or a reviewer (or anything else for that matter)
[img]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-105.gif[/img]
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 4:14pm |
ValGuild Master
Posts : 3464
Joined: 2 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (12 APR 2004 4:03pm)
oh, and everyone has EVERY right to state his/her opinion about a review or a reviewer (or anything else for that matter)
Hey! I'm the Admin around here! We don't need any parrots! (I know that he's gonna respond... :)
Originally Posted By Valadmin (12 APR 2004 1:32pm)
1) Monster and everyone: state your opinions to your heart's desire.
'nuf said.
We can be heroes, just for one day.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 4:15pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Valadmin (12 APR 2004 4:13pm)
Hey! I'm the Admin around here!
and? i will still bitch and tell ppl what to do as much as i want to ... stop me if you can!
We don't need any parrots!
well, i guess you have to delete his account then
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 4:21pm |
ValGuild Master
Posts : 3464
Joined: 2 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (12 APR 2004 4:15pm)
stop me if you can!
Oh but I can!! In more ways than 1!![img width=30 height=38]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/teufel/devil-smiley-041.gif[/img]
We can be heroes, just for one day.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 4:26pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Valadmin (12 APR 2004 4:21pm)
Oh but I can!! In more ways than 1!![img width=30 height=38]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/teufel/devil-smiley-041.gif[/img]
well? i'm waiting........ [img width=50 height=50]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-006.gif[/img]
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 12 APR 2004 at 4:32pm |
ValGuild Master
Posts : 3464
Joined: 2 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (12 APR 2004 4:26pm)
well? i'm waiting........ [img width=50 height=50]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-006.gif[/img]
I know this will be a never-ending thing so I'll end this now...[img]http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-001.gif[/img]
We can be heroes, just for one day.
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