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| 31 MAR 2004 at 5:26pm |
| Deleted User | You're right. The commercial Adventures are horrible (e.g. Broken Sword 3: The Sleeping Dragon, Syberia etc), while the fan-made, non-profit Adventures are great (e.g. KQ2 Remake, KQ1 Remake and many more). For example KQ2 Remake. Out a mediocre game (KQ Original) they made masterpiece, a challenging Adventure with deph, twists and interesting concept and story. Great! Also, it was the first game in years where I needed the help of a walkthrough).
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 5:51pm |
DJ SouzaJourneyman
Posts : 1452
Joined: 19 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I disliked the original KQ2, but I just LOVED the remake. I thought the puzzles were very logical and challenging, and I only needed help in one ocasion (guess what, it was a pixel hunt problem ).
Kudos for Tierra (oops, AGDI)!
[center]DIEGO J. SOUZA&&Consulting Detective for Hire[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/YaBBImages/smilies//detective.gif[/img]&&&&[img]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Fairygdmther/Avatars/A-G-E-S_SIG.jpg[/img][/center]
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 6:45pm |
| Deleted User | Just wait for KQ9! Epic in size and all for free...
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 6:48pm |
RecklessJourneyman
Posts : 962
Joined: 14 NOV 2002
Status : Online | "Short & easy" ... could that not be a requirement when these games target the console market. Whilst there are adult console game players, there are way more 'junior' members thus surely games have to take account of this? Back in the adventure 'good times', PCs were always owned by the older species (who are now getting close to being crusty old farts!) who could afford the 'luxury' of a real machine at home (or work).
Funny I was thinking about what games I was 'happy' to play when I was getting my 1st PC. It was one of the text based adventures from Infocom (which I thought that were cool). Showing that to my kids today I'd be laughed at - *they* seek instant gratifcation in games and that's something that most adventures don't really provide :
[url=http://leisuresuitlarry.dyndns.org/]Leisure Suit Larry Archive Site[/url]&&[url=http://www.adamhearn.co.uk]Hearn Garage[/url]
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 7:17pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Broken Sword 3 while easier isn't shorter than the first 2. It took me longer to finish than Broken Sword 1.
Black Mirror was quite long and not any easier than older comparible games.
Conspiracies wasn't that easy and was of a decent lenght
Easy - obviously havn't played Schizm 2 then :
I think alot of people confuse increased familiarity and experience of playing adventures with ease. Most people on this board have played alot of adventures and as such are familiar with most puzzle types etc which makes it easier to finish games.
Just note the hints forum for people that still require help to play some recent games.
Syberia and CSI have given the genre a bad rep for being too easy, but doen't make a trend.
Havn't played Syberia 2, but from what I hear it has more emphasise on puzzles and is longer than the first one.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 8:30pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Lucien21 (31 MAR 2004 7:17pm)
Havn't played Syberia 2, but from what I hear it has more emphasise on puzzles and is longer than the first one.
Accordin JA reveiw, S2 is easier that S1.
The CSI's are both pathetic
Law And Order too
...and many others
I want more Rippers, Rivens, Black Dahlias, Zork Nemesis, Traitor's gates...games that literally fry neurons.
 &&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 8:40pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Me too, Marchand. Unfortunately, we seem to be in the minority. The gushing reviews that I have seen for Syberia II (and responses to those reviews) indicate that many people are quite happy with brevity and simplicity. I'm not sure what kind of satisfaction people get from playing unchallenging eye-candy adventure games.
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 8:43pm |
| Deleted User | Well, as one of the founding fathers of AGP, I'm sure my opinion on this is well-known by now.
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 9:30pm |
| Deleted User | Is it possible that people are expecting too much from many game? A game is a game is a game. They are not an act of congress, an act of religion or an act of law. They are a vehicle of enjoyment and in my opinion should not be taken so seriously.
For example, I have read many terrible reviews for Jack the Ripper (and some good ones too). I am currently playing it and while I would not give it gold stars it is certainly worth my effort. Not great but DEFINITELY not terrible. I have heard that it is filled with bugs. I am approximately half way through the game and I have yet to find a malfunction/bug. My computer is exactly one year old with the bells and whistles that were available when it was purchased. Jack and my PC appear to be happy together. I am giving Jack a chance and being rewarded with some hours of folly and fantasy. Should I expect more (rhetorical question only).
I don't deny that there are bad games out there (real duds with terrible and vacant storylines, lousy puzzles and bugs enough to keep an exterminator busy for days) and we have all suffered with them but sometimes one person's junk is another person's treasure.
Syberia 2 has hardly had time to draw dust on the retailers' shelves and already it is getting criticism for being too easy, too short, too up, too down, too sidways. Why don't we give it a break and enjoy it for what it is and not focus on what it is not.
This is not in any way intended to start an argument or antagonize those with differing opinions. It is just my opinion for whatever it is worth.
Harriet
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 10:53pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By jamarchand (31 MAR 2004 8:30pm)
Accordin JA reveiw, S2 is easier that S1.
I havn't read Ray's review, but the review at AG stated
The main complaint with Syberia was the short playing time and lack of challenging puzzles. It is obvious that the game developers took this criticism to heart, because the largest area of improvement in the game over its predecessor is indeed the puzzle design. The most impressive aspect of the game, to me, was the real effort to put a variety of puzzles into the game — not just inventory-based puzzles as was the case before, but puzzles that run the gamut from the relatively simple inventory-based puzzles to more difficult logic-based ones — you may even want to anticipate getting stuck for a while!(Something I never would have dreamed to happen in Syberia.) The addition of more varied puzzles that range in difficulty has helped lengthen the playing time to almost double that of the original game, giving the player much more bang for their buck
So more varied puzzles and double the lenght of the first ??? Who to believe.
I'm not a huge fan of the first one anyway because of the easy puzzles and short lenght, but it still doesn't add up to a trend.
The CSI games are pitched at non-adventure gamers to appeal to fans of the TV show. I'm all for it. May not be fantastic fun for die-hard adventures, but if it attracts people who enjoy CSI to play more adventures then Brilliant.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 31 MAR 2004 at 11:07pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Crapstorm (31 MAR 2004 8:40pm)
we seem to be in the minority. The gushing reviews that I have seen for Syberia II (and responses to those reviews) indicate that many people are quite happy with brevity and simplicity.
I think you are wrong in that assumption. A lot of people even ones who enjoyed Syberia berated it lenght and simplicity, but there are other factors.
It's the experience as a whole that people crave.
Some people were able to forgive the easy puzzles because the other factors made it an enjoyable game for them.
Some games go the other way and have excellent puzzles, but no game.
Personally I am still waiting for the perfect blend of challenging puzzles, great story and graphics. Until then Monkey Island 2 remains on top
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 1 APR 2004 at 2:01am |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Harriet @ JA (31 MAR 2004 9:29pm)
Syberia 2 has hardly had time to draw dust on the retailers' shelves and already it is getting criticism for being too easy, too short, too up, too down, too sidways. Why don't we give it a break and enjoy it for what it is and not focus on what it is not.
Nothing against enjoy short adventures, Hariet. But, note > I'm against pay the same price for a weekend-lenght game in comparison to a half-year lenght one.
If Syberias and CSI's arrive at us at 4 or 5 Dollars, will be adequate. Sorry, but purchase these short games at 20, 30 dollars is an indefensible idea.
&&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 1 APR 2004 at 2:14am |
| Deleted User | Yes, Syberia cost $30 - not $40, not $50, like URU - you are not going to find a new game for under $30, unless it's a Nancy Drew. I'm playing Syberia II, enjoying the variety of puzzles, been stuck 3 times now, but progressed till this moment. It is a gorgeous game, but beyond the eye-candy it is a story which has captured me, and which I want to see to the end. I'm just past half way done, have not been bored at all - it seems to be moving faster then the first part. I do enjoy doing puzzles, but the story is the compelling part for me, and Syberia I & II have that. I haven't finished it yet, so I can't answer if it is longer or shorter, but it is different in terms of what you need to do to solve puzzles than the first part. There are fewer inventory puzzles, and more of the kind where you have to think to figure out how to accomplish something. There are many more NPC's in this game, and you need to interact with most of them. I don't want to get into spoilers here, so I won't say anymore, but I am totally enjoying this.
FGM
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| 1 APR 2004 at 2:16am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Harriet @ JA (31 MAR 2004 9:29pm)
Syberia 2 has hardly had time to draw dust on the retailers' shelves and already it is getting criticism for being too easy, too short, too up, too down, too sidways. Why don't we give it a break and enjoy it for what it is and not focus on what it is not.
But what if what it is isn't enough? What if what I'm looking for is not just visuals of a game, but what that's inside it?
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| 1 APR 2004 at 2:49am |
MelboIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 36
Joined: 15 NOV 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Been a long time since I've posted almost 2 years ago. I was congratulated back then by Randy for being the 500th member of JA forums. And I still appreciate the honor, I haven't forgotten it, it was quite lucky or coincidental.
I too wish for more Black Dahlias, for the intricacy and length. Lately I played Uru and the sequel to Schizm. I can live with the somewhat shorter length of Uru. The Uru story seems simpler than Black Dahlia and Riven but I haven't read that much of the journals. Or at least not as much as I should have so I probably better hold off a real judgement on the Uru story for now.
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| 1 APR 2004 at 7:02am |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Harriet @ JA (31 MAR 2004 9:29pm)
Is it possible that people are expecting too much from many game? A game is a game is a game. They are not an act of congress, an act of religion or an act of law. They are a vehicle of enjoyment and in my opinion should not be taken so seriously.
For example, I have read many terrible reviews for Jack the Ripper (and some good ones too). I am currently playing it and while I would not give it gold stars it is certainly worth my effort. Not great but DEFINITELY not terrible. I have heard that it is filled with bugs. I am approximately half way through the game and I have yet to find a malfunction/bug. My computer is exactly one year old with the bells and whistles that were available when it was purchased. Jack and my PC appear to be happy together. I am giving Jack a chance and being rewarded with some hours of folly and fantasy. Should I expect more (rhetorical question only).
I don't deny that there are bad games out there (real duds with terrible and vacant storylines, lousy puzzles and bugs enough to keep an exterminator busy for days) and we have all suffered with them but sometimes one person's junk is another person's treasure.
Syberia 2 has hardly had time to draw dust on the retailers' shelves and already it is getting criticism for being too easy, too short, too up, too down, too sidways. Why don't we give it a break and enjoy it for what it is and not focus on what it is not.
This is not in any way intended to start an argument or antagonize those with differing opinions. It is just my opinion for whatever it is worth.
Harriet
Very well said. I have to agree with you all the way. I have also been playing many games that I have seen bad reviews for and I would say that I have enjoyed them too.
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| 1 APR 2004 at 7:12am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Harriet @ JA (31 MAR 2004 9:29pm)
Is it possible that people are expecting too much from many game? A game is a game is a game. They are not an act of congress, an act of religion or an act of law. They are a vehicle of enjoyment and in my opinion should not be taken so seriously.
I think people may indeed be overscrutinizing Syberia 2, and I think this is probably a direct result of there being so few adventure games out there. Whenever a new scrap of adventure-meat is tossed out to the world, everyone pounces on it like a bunch of starving dogs.
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| 1 APR 2004 at 3:17pm |
| Deleted User | Some of my favorite games from over the years are (no special order):
Sherlock: Serrated Scalpel
Zork Nemesis
The Longest Journey
Syberia
Dark Fall
Discworld Noir
Sherlock: Rose Tattoo
Gabriel Knight 2
These games have their positives and negatives but what they all share is a 100% strong storyline. That is my top requirement for gaming happiness.
I understand the concern re paying as much for a short game as a long one but I'm not sure that there is an answer to that. It is difficult to determine price versus value based on the number of puzzles (for the puzzle driven player), the strength of the story (for the story driven), etc. A book, new to the shelves and a potential best seller, can easily cost $25-$30 dollars or more. I am a very fast reader and can easily go through that book very quickly. If I enjoy the book I generally feel that I have gotten my moneys worth. I think that the pleasure I receive from the product is the key factor for me. A book, a game = mental R&R and a journey into a world of wonder and imagination.
Maybe we need to be more selective about what we buy and what we want to play. I don't like keyboard controlled games. I avoid them. I don't like FMV games. The acting is often of poor quality. I don't function well in an action/adventure game. I am too clumsy. I tend to like mystery/detective and fantasy games that are strong on plot and character development. I have several reviewers whose tastes are similar to mine. I pay attention to their opinions and make my game buying/playing decisions accordingly.
How do you make your gaming decisions? What makes you really love or hate a game?
Harriet
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| 1 APR 2004 at 8:52pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Despite several FMV games have bad actors, they are much better than the best 3D puppets.
Note your list of favorites - have several FMV adventures.
&&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 2 APR 2004 at 5:18am |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Harriet @ JA (1 APR 2004 3:17pm)
How do you make your gaming decisions? What makes you really love or hate a game?
I like what I like, I guess. I seem to favor female detectives like Nancy Drew & Laura Bow, since I have a tendency to always talk about them. I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to games, so if I have a fun time while playing, then I enjoy it.
If a game kind of looks interesting to me, I'll wait to hear what people say about it. If the response is mediocre, maybe I'll buy it sometime down the line, maybe not. On the other hand, some games just look and sound *really* interesting to me and no matter what is said about the game, I'll still buy it. Or if it's a sequel - I have a weakness for sequels.
Many of my gaming choices lately have been because JA forum members recommend them. Games that never interested me I'm now hooked on because of the recommendations of others: Syberia, Monkey Island series, Broken Sword series, and Grim Fandango, to name a few.
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 2 APR 2004 at 1:16pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | I love a game that offers me a totally original experience. It has to challenge my brain with real puzzles that require thought. And it must not bore me with tiresome cliches or lame jokes, because I bore easily.
That's really all I ask. I don't need to see the latest graphics or animation technology. I don't require hours of recorded speech or emotive theme music. That's all window dressing.
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| 2 APR 2004 at 9:44pm |
NellieSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 359
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Is it possible that people are expecting too much from many games?
I think it's a matter of what people expect games to be at their heart.
I personally believe that, at heart, a piece of interactive entertainment should focus on... well, interactivity. Playing a game where all the best elements are passive (the story, the graphics, the sound) and the interactive elements are weak, actually offends me as a gamer.
If I went to see a reputedly 'great' film, and then discovered in the cinema that 85% of it was a radio play, I would be annoyed. I'd think: "Well, that was a pretty good radio play, but it was a horrible film!". Same with Syberia. As much as I may enjoy the story and find the graphics absolutely stunning, is it ultimately going to satisfy me as a piece of interactive entertainment? I doubt it. oes my disappointment in the lack of interactivity mean I'm expecting too much from it as a game? I don't believe so, any more than I would be expecting too much from a film if I wanted it to be a visual experience.
[b]£1bn -[/b] Amount British government has pledged to paying off debt of poorest nations over next 10 years.&&&&[b]£5bn -[/b] Amount British government has already spent on Iraq campaign.
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| 3 APR 2004 at 1:32pm |
KenifIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 7 DEC 2002
Status : Online | i may be different but i'd prefer good storyline, good characters to lots of difficult puzzles, although preferably i'd love a good mix of both (discworld noir).
Full throttle is one of the shortest games i've played, yet the characters were pretty good, the storyline was nice and the atmosphere was good too. So after i had played it, i didn't mind the fact it was short.
Sweet
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