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| 24 NOV 2004 at 6:54am |
Orange_BratIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 4 APR 2004
Status : Online | Before I uninstalled, I did discover and try the safe mode EXE. I got the same result. The problem I had was that when I clicked on the game icon, a small, all black window would open and it would go no further. I've installed and played the game twice with no problems before this. I even went as far as to try a copy protection cracked EXE and it still did it. The only possible difference with my config is that I've upgraded my Win XP to SP2 since the last working time.
[url=http://www.thedisenfranchised.com/]The Disenfranchised™[/url] - coming later
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| 24 NOV 2004 at 6:58am |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Hannah,I have windows mi and could not play it.So I gave it away to someone on this forum.There are nice people who appreciate a free game,but it broke my heart.
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| 24 NOV 2004 at 9:00pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Orange_Brat (24 NOV 2004 6:54am)
Before I uninstalled, I did discover and try the safe mode EXE. I got the same result. The problem I had was that when I clicked on the game icon, a small, all black window would open and it would go no further. I've installed and played the game twice with no problems before this. I even went as far as to try a copy protection cracked EXE and it still did it. The only possible difference with my config is that I've upgraded my Win XP to SP2 since the last working time.
I read somewhere that you'd need to update StarForce after installing major Windows updates like SP2. You might email TAC and see if they know of a StarForce update for SP2. Or you might email StarForce and see if they can give you an update for problems with SP2. ***StarForce link***.
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| 24 NOV 2004 at 9:59pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4939
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Orange_Brat (24 NOV 2004 6:54am)
Before I uninstalled, I did discover and try the safe mode EXE. I got the same result. The problem I had was that when I clicked on the game icon, a small, all black window would open and it would go no further. I've installed and played the game twice with no problems before this. I even went as far as to try a copy protection cracked EXE and it still did it. The only possible difference with my config is that I've upgraded my Win XP to SP2 since the last working time.
Installing SP2 would be my first bet for your problems. Just as with SP1, people are reporting various problems after updating to SP2. A conflict of some changes produced by SP2, (considering some of the changes have to do with security) with Starforce or somesuch would be not that hard to believe.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 28 NOV 2004 at 4:37am |
Orange_BratIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 4 APR 2004
Status : Online | I got on the Revolution forum and it looks like BS3 has problems with SP2. Of course, it's only on some systems ,and I happen to fall within the some category. No patch ,and I doubt there ever will be.
[url=http://www.thedisenfranchised.com/]The Disenfranchised™[/url] - coming later
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| 28 NOV 2004 at 9:02am |
MikekellyPrivate Detective
Posts : 612
Joined: 25 JUN 2004
Status : Offline |
Sometimes a dual-boot computer is the only answer.
You can have win98 and winXP on the same machine.
I don't have SP2 and I'm just going to pass on it.
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| 28 NOV 2004 at 6:54pm |
| Deleted User | My PC isn't the newest one and after SP1 I experienced some troubles, some soft was a lot slower and the whole machine didn't work so fine any more so I did a full reinstall without updating to SP1.
I was very reluctant to install SP2 and waited several weeks but also curiosity got over me after all I didn't install Win anew for about one and a half year.... But to my utter surprise Win XP runs better then ever before with SP2 ...at least on my computer...
if dualboot than Windows XP Pro SP2 and Suse Linux 9.2 ;-)
Win 98 SE only if the PC has less then 500 MHz and less then 128MB RAM for the games and for internet and work Win 2000.
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| 28 NOV 2004 at 8:06pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Mikekelly (28 NOV 2004 9:01am)
Sometimes a dual-boot computer is the only answer.
You can have win98 and winXP on the same machine.
I don't have SP2 and I'm just going to pass on it.
I agree that a dual boot system with Win 98 SE and Win XP (sans SP2) is the ONLY way to go these days for a single system PC gamer.
But an even better solution is a really good, separate back-up system with Win 98 SE only for all older PC titles. Virtually none of them required today's high speed CPUs / GPUs and mega hard drives and they all ran very well under the old OS - especially with its DOS legacy, previous versions of DirectX and proven device drivers.
Then, for newer games, the newer OS running on a state-of-the-art gaming system with the latest DirectX and device drivers is the way to go.
Besides, it's good to maintain a reliable, fully functional back-up system for many other everyday uses like simple record keeping, archival reference, access to e-mail, essential web surfing and word processing.
At this point, I find that two well-configured PCs with these specs cover the entire range of needs quite adequately.
Cheers, Terry
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| 12 JAN 2005 at 1:43am |
JPSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 217
Joined: 24 NOV 2002
Status : Online | AARGH! I totally agree!
I had been waiting for this game to come out for so long!! I loved the 2 previous games - they had a great combination of storytelling and gameplay, and I really hoped that this game would live up to the hype.
Unfortunately it didn't!!!!
I have to admit - the storyline was ok, but.... (and that's a really big BUT) - a reasonable storyline can never make up for a poor game; and this is where the problems all come togetherto really damn this game!
Ok, where should I start?
The interface on this game is really annoying - it p[lays like it should be a console game.
The majority of puzzles are SO annoying - its either pushing/pulling crates into the correct position or running back & forwards until you see George/Nico's head turn to indicate something of interest!
And what about the fact that you can't skip any of the cutscenes??? - that was so annoying!!
The other, rather large problem I have with this game is the addition of the ridiculous timed action puzzles that have been included in this game, and the worst one by far is the one where you and Nico are running for your lives and have to jump over a series of cracks to avoid an earthquake on a cave system!!!
That sequence alone took me about 5 tries to complete.
Well, what can I say?
This game had the potential to revolutionise the adventure games industry, but unfortunately only succeeds in showing how a great pc adventure series can be ruined by modernisation!!!!
Bow down before the one you serve&&You're going to get what you deserve !
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| 12 JAN 2005 at 3:12pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By JP (12 JAN 2005 1:42am)
The interface on this game is really annoying - it p[lays like it should be a console game.
It actually is a console game and I played it on the PS2 where it was perfect... if you would have tried a gamepad you wouldn't have had such problems on the PC, though...
Originally Posted By JP (12 JAN 2005 1:42am)
That sequence alone took me about 5 tries to complete.
Agreed, these Dragon's Lair sequences are not only very aged but also pretty stupid, but usually they were very simple and didn't take this long. Admit, how long did those 5 times take you? 5 minutes or less?
For me, BS was a wonderful game with adequate graphics, a wonderful easy interface (with gamepad) and a well told story.
Yes it was different but lets be fair and compare with i.e. Gabriel Knight 3, if you don't like BS3 for its interface you will hate GK3!
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| 13 JAN 2005 at 12:41am |
JPSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 217
Joined: 24 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ogre (12 JAN 2005 3:11pm)
Agreed, these Dragon's Lair sequences are not only very aged but also pretty stupid, but usually they were very simple and didn't take this long. Admit, how long did those 5 times take you? 5 minutes or less?
Ok I have to admit - this sequence did only take around 5-10 minutes to complete, but that's not the point! I don't expect this kind of gameplay from an adventure game.
Overall, I have to say that it was an enjoyable game with a good story but the action sequences let it down.
Bow down before the one you serve&&You're going to get what you deserve !
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| 13 JAN 2005 at 2:44am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | I just beat it, I made a thread with my thoughts on the Adventure Game forum.
Overall, I think it was solid, but with poor controls. The crate puzzles got VERY tedious as well.
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| 13 JAN 2005 at 4:13am |
GhostSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 273
Joined: 31 JUL 2004
Status : Online | Yes, I agree with you on the crate puzzle issue (way too many!)...but I enjoyed BS3.
The keyboard was something I had to get used to again(since the last time I played Grim Fandango years ago) and was a little frustrating especially when the camera views change on you in the middle of a timed sequence running from Petra...
I'm not a big "action" fan, but the action in this game was very easy and kind of rewarding (to me) once successfully completed. However, I could have lived without that "stress"...
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| 14 JAN 2005 at 2:11pm |
| Deleted User | I just don't understand why not using the appropiate controller? I would never play a car racing game with a keyboard as I would never would play an ego shooter with a joypad. BS3 was perfect with a joypad it was made for that controller.
You don't eat soup with a fork, do you?
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| 15 JAN 2005 at 7:29am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | I don't see how a controller would have made it easier at all. I own a controller and didn't even use it. How is up, down, left, and right different on the keyboard from the controller?
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| 15 JAN 2005 at 8:16am |
Orange_BratIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 4 APR 2004
Status : Online | It's completely different with a PS2 style controller with analog sticks. There's no comparison and it's a much more pleasant experience. It has been quite a while since I played BS3 and I can't reinstall of it because of some kind of system conflict but I seem to recall the orientation being character relative as opposed to camera relative. This means that pressing the "up" key or direction on the gamepad stick always moves the character forward regardless of their rotation. If it's camera relative then pressing up always moves the player away from the camera..left is left, right is right, etc. Normally, when using a character relative setup, the presssing left/right will rotate the player in place and pressing down will move them backwards.
Same goes for Grim Fandango with the camera relative setting switched on. A whole different game, mechanics-wise, however there are still some quirks when turning Manny. Not sure why they did it that way, but gamepads are the way to go with direct control adventures.
[url=http://www.thedisenfranchised.com/]The Disenfranchised™[/url] - coming later
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| 15 JAN 2005 at 5:17pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | It has been quite a while since I played BS3 and I can't reinstall of it because of some kind of system conflict but I seem to recall the orientation being character relative as opposed to camera relative
No, not true. Pressing left always made George run to the left of the screen, no matter where he was facing. Forward was always away from the camera, and back was always towards it.
In retrospect, the analog sticks may have helped a bit, but I don't seem them all of a sudden turning crappy controls into great ones. Crappy into mediocre, maybe.
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| 15 JAN 2005 at 7:01pm |
Orange_BratIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 4 APR 2004
Status : Online | Like I said it's been a while so at least the camera relative was used, which is the best option when using this style of camera. It would only be mediocre if the particular implementation of it was poor(like adding in some kind of "drift" behavior that makes the controls feel loose..I prefer tighter controls and no drift). When using direct control, a developer should give the user a choice of either character or camera relative(ala Grim Fandango). That way everyone's happy.
[url=http://www.thedisenfranchised.com/]The Disenfranchised™[/url] - coming later
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| 15 JAN 2005 at 9:49pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Like I said it's been a while so at least the camera relative was used, which is the best option when using this style of camera.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Camera-relative movement is a really bad idea when the camera angle changes a lot as it does in BS3.
It would only be mediocre if the particular implementation of it was poor
I think the implementation WAS poor. In the scene where you were supposed to run down the corridor to the elevator, if I pressed too soon George would start running in the wrong direction. That is infuriating.
When using direct control, a developer should give the user a choice of either character or camera relative(ala Grim Fandango).
Can't disagree with that.
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| 15 JAN 2005 at 10:36pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Yep, rapidly shifting camera angles are great for action scenes in movies. But when someone actually has to control a character on screen quickly and precisely, it sucks.
Cheers, Terry
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| 16 JAN 2005 at 12:13am |
JPSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 217
Joined: 24 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ogre (12 JAN 2005 3:11pm)
Yes it was different but lets be fair and compare with i.e. Gabriel Knight 3, if you don't like BS3 for its interface you will hate GK3!
I'm not sure I agree with that - I played GK3 long before BS3 and I found no problems with the interface at all. In fact I found it quite easy to control.
Bow down before the one you serve&&You're going to get what you deserve !
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| 16 JAN 2005 at 9:39pm |
Orange_BratIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 4 APR 2004
Status : Online | Character relative is a lot easier to code and probably one of the reasons why a lot of cinematic angle games use it. It's also why most game critics will continue to bomb games that continue to use such an archaic and unintuitive gameplay mechanic, and we have Resident Evil and all its clones to thank for this. Those are all great games, but the tank turrent controls have got to go, especially since games like Fatal Frame and Devil May Cry have had both cinematic angles and camera relative controls for years(and get praised to the heavens for using them)
Camera relative is always superior to character when the camera's change like they do in BS3. It's up to the developer to place the proper control locks in place to prevent the player from changing direction while the camera is either swooping into place or when the camera suddenly switches from one to another. If those control locks are missing, the player will gradually move in an arc during a swoop or suddenly change direction with a sudden view switch. However, if locks are in place they will always maintain their course until you let up on the currently pressed key.
This is one of the bad things about Grim Fandango's controls when using the camera relative option. There are no locks in place so Manny would sometimes find himself moving back and forth in circles which would make the same two screens switch on and off. If the locks had been used, that would have been a huge issue resolved and the controls would have been almost perfect. The other big problem with that title was that he always moved forward too fast when turning. BS3 offers both control locking and moves the characters forward at a bare minimum while turning, so it is a huge improvement over Grim. BS3 is still a bit shaky when moving diagonally, but I've seen and coded worse. Using the gamepad significantly reduces this, so it's a non-issue for me.
Let's think about it for a moment. Why would I want to press up to always go forward regardless of my player's rotation(i.e. character relative)? Logically, I would want to press up to move away from the camera or right to go to the right of it or down to move towards it.
I just now got BS3 to install and load for the first time in ages and it works like a charm. I even tried the keyboard option(customized to my liking) for the very first time and it's one of the best control schemes I've ever experienced in this style of game(and I've played dozens). There's simply no other way it could be implemented, and I've seen none of the complainers of the controls offer up any viable solutions on how to fix this supposedly broken control scheme. Has Steve Ence ever commented on this? I also like having to only press a button to make the character's look at items or to use/interact with the environment. It's simple and to the point, and works well with the PC arrow keys or with the more natural gamepad(it was obviously developed with a console in mind).
This game's controls get a bum rap, and I'll be implementing a similar style in my own project once I get into that part of development. I will also allow character relative as an option, too. Great game, great controls, and greatly misunderstood.
Yep, rapidly shifting camera angles are great for action scenes in movies. But when someone actually has to control a character on screen quickly and precisely, it sucks.
All 3rd person adventure games feature quickly changing camera angles...whether they be point & click or direct control...or prerendered or realtime. I don't see the difference betreen the implementation of the two, although I understand some people's complaints when action sequences are involved. I don't understand during the tried and true exploring/pixel hunting sections, though.
[url=http://www.thedisenfranchised.com/]The Disenfranchised™[/url] - coming later
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| 16 JAN 2005 at 10:05pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Orange_Brat (16 JAN 2005 9:39pm)
Camera relative is always superior to character when the camera's change like they do in BS3.
Are you serious? You're not actually joking? I have a feeling that you aren't, although I have difficulty believing that.
Let's think about it for a moment. Why would I want to press up to always go forward regardless of my player's rotation(i.e. character relative)?
Why? Because it makes perfect sense. Because it's very easy to use. Because it's much better than having the meaning of direction keys/controls change arbitrarily. Perhaps most importantly, because some people want their character to move forward every time they press up.
There's simply no other way it could be implemented, and I've seen none of the complainers of the controls offer up any viable solutions on how to fix this supposedly broken control scheme.
Three words: Character relative movement.
This game's controls get a bum rap, and I'll be implementing a similar style in my own project once I get into that part of development. I will also allow character relative as an option, too. Great game, great controls, and greatly misunderstood.
Misunderstood? Why are you so certain of your own superiority? Are the people who "misunderstood" the conrols just misguided poor souls who simply haven't seen the light? They have no right to have their own preferences?
Anyway if you're going to allow character relative movement in your own game, at least you have some common sense.
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 JAN 2005 at 4:00pm |
bdeckedSchattenjger
Posts : 1620
Joined: 14 OCT 2011
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Orange_Brat (16 JAN 2005 9:39pm)
Camera relative is always superior to character when the camera's change like they do in BS3. I actually MUCH prefer camera-relative (unless, of course, it's a first-person perspective.) I don't, however, agree that it's ALWAYS superior - I do think that it has a lot to do with personal preference...
The annoying part of BS3 was not necessarily the controls, but the fact that the camera angles CHANGED constantly and unexpectedly... and at amazingly inopportune moments (i.e. *exactly* at the moment you're supposed to run away and save your life.)
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