| 30 NOV 2003 at 1:46am |
| Deleted User | Singer: Errrrr.... I wasn't arguing against paying a monthly subscription fee. I DID contend that the fee for URU was a bit high IMHO. My comparison to NWN was made from a more mainstream gamer's point of view. I can see many of the very gamers at whom URU was aimed saying "Why pay $13 a month to play URU when I can play this kick-ass RPG online for free?"
I think you answered that hypothetical question pretty well.
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 1:48am |
| Deleted User | I finished uru a little while ago, and I enjoyed it . I could have done without the running and jumping, but after getting used to the controls (small learning curve for that), and using some common sense on where to jump from, it was'nt to difficult. There were a couple illogical puzzles involving a rock jump for a relto page and some particular fireflies . But I think the majority of games these days have a few oddball illogical puzzles in them..But all in all I had fun with it! just as I do with most of the games I purchase, And it did have a myst feel about it. In the graphics,sounds,and music...
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 2:39am |
EvolIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 38
Joined: 12 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Singer (29 NOV 2003 4:53pm)
Funny... usually the theory is to entice people with QUALITY, not crap. : Good call.
As for the ridiculous commentary, it's just plain wrong. ALL games involve a marriage of art and commerce. Uru is no more guilty of that than Myst or Riven. Although the technology has changed, Uru is every bit as "artistic" as its predecessors. No soul? Back that up.
If you don't like the model of online gaming, fine. But you clearly don't understand it, either, so it's better to educate yourself. Monthly player fees go to the creation of new content, as well as the administration of providing a persistent online world for players. Can it make money? Sure, if done well. So can making single player games. That's ONE of the goals of any developer/publisher. If you think it isn't, you're deluding yourself.
Mate, the game is designed with one purpose in mind - get the huge Myst customer base into the on-line payment paradigm. If you think otherwise, you're being naive. Let me explain to you what on-line is actually about. A continuous revenue source from a product, rather than a one-off. Moolah, understand?
The first Myst game was made not with huge sums of money in mind, and commerce was not its *major* purpose.
Yes, all games involve art and commerce - this does not contradict what I said. (heard of a 'straw man'?) I argue however that in this game, commerce has almost entirely displaced art as the purpose behind its development.
And I'm not talking about art in the narrow sense you probably think it has to be (textures and modelling) - they are all pretty in URU, to be sure. I'm talking about the deeper meaning of art, as *purpose* - to express, communicate, etc.
It is a truism that good games are in each instance made by developers who, first and foremost, *have great ideas* and *want to make a great game*. Not, you'll find, by developers purely doing a job to fulfill a revenue objective by a corporation.
No soul? Peter Gabriel. (Man, that stuff is just so WHITE)
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 3:29am |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Well, I'm not disagreeing that Cyan and Ubisoft want to make money with Uru, but I think that's overly cynical. What Cyan has said they want to do is make a "neverending game". I think that makes sense. The idea behind this game is that, with your monthly fee, you get new content, such as new ages. Unlike the model of some other MMORPGs, you don't pay for expansion packs, along with your monthly fee. With your monthly fee you get new worlds to explore. Cyan also observed that many people who played the Myst series games played them with friends, and I think that's one of the influences on their decision to do an online game.
I rather think that the idea of them wanting to make a "neverending" game makes sense. In my opinion (and I've played all the Myst series games), the games were never about the endings. It's as if the designers never wanted the game world to end. I actually think it's more risky, and more expensive for them to do an online multiplayer game than their traditional series of solo player games. There is no multiplayer adventure game on the market. Whether they manage to do it, only "time will tell". It's also resource intensive, and not just with regards to game servers. If they are really going to release a new age every month or every other month, that's a pretty steady committment of resources. As for customer base, an online game is a risk. I would guess that many Myst fans have never played an online game. It would be a lot easier to sell the Myst series fans multiple solo player games, in my opinion, than an online game, and a whole heck of a lot cheaper, and much less risky. I'm not clairvoyant, but I think Cyan is doing this because they want to, and they are risking the future of their company. Just a thought.
Price wise - I haven't heard a final price, except for some chit-chat about $10 - $15 a month US dollars. That's competetive with the industry. I'd be surprised if it was anything else. If it was more than the standard MMORPG monthly fee, then I'd be surprised.
As for releasing solo player now, and multiplayer later - oh, I don't know, I'm not in marketing. I can't see why Ubisoft can't do an enormous marketing push, when Uru Live is ready. Then again, I'm not in marketing, so I don't know.
Regards, mszv
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 3:36am |
SingerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Online | Continuous revenue stream, continuous product output. The second part of the equation is what you don't seem prepared to acknowledge. Hey, if Uru Live gets moving and the promised content updates don't happen, and admin is neglected, I'll be the first in line to wail on them for being greedy buggers. But to bash the game and its developers based on a MODEL you don't like makes no sense.
Greed is milking a licence long beyond its welcome. Greed is shoveling garbage out the door with no regard to quality. Uru is neither of those, even if we don't like the direction or the results. The Myst world IS a world that provides some fascinating possibilities for a persistent treatment, and creatively the options are limitless. Check out the books and fan fiction and so on. Basically, it's ripe for an MMOG experiment.
Frankly, I don't go for it all, myself, but lots of do, and Cyan is trying to make a go of it.
Me? Naive about corporate greed? Ha!! No, where I differ here is on the development level. I still have some faith that people who actually build things by hand still believe in craftsmanship, or that game developers still focus more on delivering a quality gaming experience than dreaming of retiring young as fat cats.
EDIT: mszv!! How do you keep DOING that!!??
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 3:37am |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Well it turns out that Singer and I are posting similar comments. He's saying it better, but I'm saying it nicer!
Regards, mszv
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 7:31am |
EvolIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 38
Joined: 12 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Singer, MSZV, you're probably more right than I am on this one - I have to admit I'm playing devils advocate a bit here (not trolling, i swear.) I haven't played the full game, just the demo.
I've just become rather.... cynical about the direction the games industry has gone in the past few years, with gaming entering the 'mainstream'. I guess I just knee-jerked with URU - my first question was: Myst was *such* a single-player type of game, so why not keep delivering better single player games - why try to get those fans on-line? And I suppose you've answered that.
At any rate, I hope you're right, I really do. I don't doubt that there are still game developers who want to deliver a quality product, and there is still love of making games, and craftsmanship, on the part of actual developers. What worries me is the extent that those qualities are not allowed to flourish, are not allowed to dominate games, because of greedy publishers who control development... I see this in the corner-cutting prevalent in mainstream games, and worse, in the prevailing lack of anything *unusual*, challenging or *different*.
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 2:12pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Well, I had the chance to try URU. I havn't played that much but I have a few observations to make: the beginning was cool. Nice graphics, great soundtrack and a Peter Gabriel tune! The first thing that bothered me is that you have to get very close to a hotspot to interact with it. Not such a big deal, but the real problem begun as soon as I entered the cave: the controls are terrible. I found it very hard to move my character with any mouse/keyboard combination. Plus the cave enviroment itself is baddly designed for this type of control as it's very narrow and makes it hard to view your surroundings. Things would be much more easier if I could look up and down but I didn't find a way to do this (in 1st. person mode it's possible but you have to be walking, which means falling-off a cliff).
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 2:23pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Evol (30 NOV 2003 2:39am)
The first Myst game was made not with huge sums of money in mind, and commerce was not its *major* purpose. Saw the making-of and it was actually just artists (the big studios wern't really intrested I recall)... but today's games are more big-money than artist!
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 5:17pm |
SingerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By The_Parrot (30 NOV 2003 2:22pm)
Saw the making-of and it was actually just artists (the big studios wern't really intrested I recall)... but today's games are more big-money than artist!
And what would the making-of Uru clip show? Bankers? ??? It's the same developers.
Evol, I know where you're coming from. I really do. I'm anti "suits", and let me join the chorus blaming publishers for a lot of gaming ills. Even here, Ubi Soft's choice to release Uru as single-player only (so far) with no mention of online subscription costs on the box reeks of cashing in on the Myst franchise. Really, though, I just didn't want to see criticism hastily laid on developers who have been working for 6 years to bring Uru about. Let's at least give them a chance to see their vision through.
And mszv, Ubi could definitely RE-market Uru when the Live portion is functional. oubt they will, though (right, Evol? )
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 5:33pm |
| Deleted User | Augy: You don't need to be walking in order to look around. You need to hold down the right mouse button and move the mouse around. In first-person this gives you pretty much unlimited panning control up, down, and side-to-side. In third-person you already have a wider view, so the panning around is usually (but not always) much more limited.
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 7:43pm |
bistroSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 240
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Not much to add to what has already been said, but I've been a Myst fan since Day 1.....and I bought Uru, played it and finished it with my eyes wide open. BEFORE buying it, I did a little research...like I do with EVERY game I buy (doesn't everybody? Evidently not...). When I went to the store to get it, I knew dang well about the Uru Live delays. Didn't take much research to know about it. So?? I still wanted to play it and, for the most part, I was not disappointed. Game controls? Uh....how about walk around a bit and PRACTICE?? You've got plenty of time....no zombies attacking you, no time bombs ready to go off,....what's your dang hurry? One of the main draws of this game is to EXPLORE. So chill out and enjoy it. Geeeeez....
And if you don't have a powerful enough system....well sorry about that. But that's the way things are for the games today; they aren't designing them for 300mhz machines anymore, folks. Just a plain fact....which from my reading at other forums, there are folks who are just having a hard time accepting it. But if you wants to play, youse gots to pay. Suggestion: chill out on buying games for a while and spend that money on upgrading your system. I build the dang things....it costs less than you probably realize.
As for system requirements, I do not EVER go with the "minimum system requirements"....yeah, the game will run, but if you think it will run well then you are delusional. It's a good rule of thumb to take the RECOMMENDED system requirements and make THAT your "minimum" IMHO....you'll be a lot better off.
I've even read on some other sites that some people were "shocked" that they would now have to go onto an online subscription of they wanted to continue exploring. I have to ask: "Where have you been??". This has been advertised all over the net for ages (no pun intended). Yeah, Ubi did not do themselves any favors by not mentioning it on the box. 50 demerits off their score. But c'mon folks....how many people simply bought Uru without knowing at all what it was all about, huh? Without knowing already of the server restrictions they have for the Live portion? 1/10th of 1 percent maybe? Gimme a break....
End of rant....otherwise I could start getting nasty.
(OK, ok....so I DID have much to add...)
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 9:16pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By bistro (30 NOV 2003 7:43pm)
And if you don't have a powerful enough system....well sorry about that. But that's the way things are for the games today; they aren't designing them for 300mhz machines anymore, folks. Just a plain fact....which from my reading at other forums, there are folks who are just having a hard time accepting it. But if you wants to play, youse gots to pay.
You obviously never heard that "customer is always right". You can try to tell people what they should do with their PCs and with their money. After a while you will discover that people do not listen to that. Either you do it the way they want or they'll go away.
I forgot my sig.
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| 30 NOV 2003 at 10:09pm |
bistroSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 240
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Alrighty then....how 'bout we write to all the game developers and demand they design their games to run on 800mhz machines and slower in order to accomodate all the "potential" customers? Forget about the benefits to gaming that newer (and, I might add, at the cost of just two games) vid cards provide... or (OMG!) don't even THINK about anything above Direct X 7! While we're at it, let's make sure we go back to leaded gas....after all, there ARE people out there who still own cars that use the stuff and we MUST accomodate them.
I'm sorry guys....the customer isn't always right. Its the nature of this technology to keep advancing (thank God). The industry cannot support itself if it constantly tries to support old technology. It HAS to advance....or die. The good news is that, with just a little bit of effort and budgeting, most people can keep up and be able to play pretty much what's out there. You don't have to be rich...just savvy. But if you want the nice graphics, the great frame rates and great soundtracks, you gotta go with the flow. And that's the bottom line.
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