| 27 NOV 2003 at 2:57am |
Bob_the_BuilderJourneyman
Posts : 956
Joined: 25 APR 2003
Status : Online | Yeah, a lot of people were really disappointed with it. I'm hoping that they just rushed the demo out because they wanted to get money from gamespy for an exclusive demo. Even gamespot reported on how a lot of people are disappointed with the demo. Sadly, the game has already gone gold, they're going to need to do a lot of patching.
"Someone really screwed the pooch on this one."
Never heard that metaphor before though
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
|
| 27 NOV 2003 at 2:21pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | I've read all about this on various gaming forums, although I haven't been able to try the demo myself. Sounds like they really messed it up, huh It's a shame, because the first Deus Ex was a truly great game - still, I've heard rumours that the demo is quite old, so I'll wait for the final game and see what the reviews say.
By the way, I think you can improve some aspects of the demo by tweaking the .ini file - there's a thread about it at the Gamespot forums. Sounds like someone accidentally released the demo with the settings optimized for the Xbox :
|
| 27 NOV 2003 at 2:48pm |
Herman ToothrotSpace Cadet
Posts : 199
Joined: 22 SEP 2003
Status : Online | The majority of people that deride the game are idiots who are basing their opinion on 1/100th of the final game, and non-final code to boot.
People piss and moan about the textures, without realizing the demo only contained the low-res/low-detail textures to keep the filesize down. The full game with have high-res bump-maps, detail-textures, specular-maps, and lightmaps.
People also bitch about small things like the ATM hacking, which in the original was a two-click process, and now it's one-click. I guess that extra click is what what made the original game a hit.
I would ignore most people that claim the game will fail, at least until everyone has had a chance to play the final game. Besides, all these wags that claim they're not going to buy the game now never were, their mom was going to buy it for them.
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/kevmac179/sirius_pirate.jpg[/img]
|
| 27 NOV 2003 at 6:02pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Herman Toothrot (27 NOV 2003 2:47pm)
The majority of people that deride the game are idiots who are basing their opinion on 1/100th of the final game, and non-final code to boot.
People piss and moan about the textures, without realizing the demo only contained the low-res/low-detail textures to keep the filesize down. The full game with have high-res bump-maps, detail-textures, specular-maps, and lightmaps.
Even if this is true, it was particularly stupid of Ion Storm to release a demo that wasn't representative of the final game, especially so close to the game's release. They ought to have realised that people would assume this was what the game would be like - surely the whole point of a demo is to act as a 'taster' for the finished game. And releasing a PC demo optimized for Xbox shows a level of incompetence that is almost frightening.
As for the other issues, I'm hardly what you'd call a 'hardcore' gamer but even I can't help feeling that some things have been over-simplified compared to the first game. For instance, the decision to use the same ammo for all the weapons - why? Even Doom had different types of ammo. Little things like this, and the skill points system, and the ability to hack things yourself - admittedly none of them were hugely important in themselves, but added together they helped to make the original Deus Ex such a great, immersive experience. I'm sure the final game will be better than the demo suggests, but it sounds like in many ways it's a step back compared to the first game - and that's a real shame.
|
| 27 NOV 2003 at 6:33pm |
SingerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Online | I don't think that shows a real understanding of the kind of last minute pressure developers are under. I'm not excusing shoddy releases, but to question the competence of one of gaming's most skilled and progressive development teams because of a demo mistake seems harsh. You can be sure that their focus has been squarely on the retail version (probably 24/7), and a demo mistake slipped through the cracks. Really the fault is with the system that demands deadlines be met rather than quality assured.
It was definitely unfortunate, though I agree with Herman that it won't ultimately impact sales. The full game will speak for itself, and I'm sure you'll see a "new" demo before long.
|
| 27 NOV 2003 at 7:42pm |
ArmstrongIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 12
Joined: 25 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Herman Toothrot (27 NOV 2003 2:47pm)
The majority of people that deride the game are idiots who are basing their opinion on 1/100th of the final game, and non-final code to boot.
.
I've rarely encountered a demo that doesn't at least reflect on the true nature of the final release game. It's not like we're looking at a half-assed beta demo secretly released on the internet. It's an official demo released with much fanfare a couple weeks before it hits the stores. Ion Storm would have to be retarded not to make it an accurate representation of the final game. I'm just getting a phantom menace sized sense of dread after playing the demo. Actually, I hope i'm wrong but from what i've seen so far it seems rather disappointing.
This is definitely a game i'll hold off on until more people have had a chance to play and review the final version.
|
| 27 NOV 2003 at 10:21pm |
| Deleted User | I actually enjoy the demo, and like replaying it to try different things. What confuses the hell out of me is why it should run as badly as it does on a PC when it's optimised for X-Box. That's just plain strange. The X-Box is a Direct-X 8.0 machine, which is what DX2 is optimised for, and slower than my own machine.
My specs -
Athlon XP 1800+ (needs upgrading)
512Mb DDR Ram
Geforce 4 Ti4600
Asus A7V8x rev. 1.6
80 GB Western Digital H/D (one of those new fast bastards)
Plus I've got the new Forceware drivers which kinda "update" Ti4600's to be able to handle 9.0 calculations based on coding, not hardware.
There's nothing in the demo that would suggest that my machine would have trouble with the game. I've run Max Payne 2 with all details and no slowdown, and that gameworld is far more detailed. The demo, presentation-wise, seems slipshod. However, it plays well and I'm a fan of the first one so I'm looking foward to it. It also is better with the user.ini and default.ini file changes recommended by the mod community.
Apparently, according to the official Ion Storm forums, Warren Spector and co. are studying the problems realised in the demo and are working on relevant patches and a new demo. There was a mistake it it's release - it was X-Box optimised... I bet someone is really sweating over their right now.
Me? I'm waiting for both this and X2-The Threat. Could be a good few months.
|
| 30 NOV 2003 at 1:01am |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Well, the demo hated my computer but since Max Payne II, URU, Morrowind, Chaser and Tron seemed to be happy then I think the game will do fine, I exceed the requirements by a lot.
Just a couple of more days but..........as much as I want to play it and as long as I have waited for #2 to come out, I hope most of the bugs are out.
|
| 30 NOV 2003 at 8:20pm |
The Terror of the Wolf part 3Schattenjger
Posts : 2391
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | All of these things are irrelevant if it has a good storyline.
It was the gameplay and storyline that made the origional so good. The pacing and interaction made it a brilliant game. You can't really tell on the gameplay from a demo, only the interface. And an interface isn't especially important - Grim Fandango is still a great game, even if some people struggled with the interface. Monkey Island 4 had the same interface, but the game itself sucked.
So I'll reserve judgement until I get into the storyline of the game itself. If it's good, it'll be worth it. If not....
[url=http://www.justadventure.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1136331866/0#0]GAMES FOR TRADE!![/url]
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 5:46am |
DracheHexeIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 39
Joined: 26 AUG 2003
Status : Online | The Deus Ex 2 demo was trashed by the majority of the gaming community. I'll admit that I though the demo stank all out and I haven't even played the first one, so I had no basis for comparison (which will soon be rectified after getting it CGW's free games on the DVD that comes with the latest issue )
However, the game is getting kick-ass reviews from people who have got to play near complete versions of the game. So even if the demo sucked I might still buy the game should I happen to like the first one. And I may not, as I can't get into cyber-tech stuff. But who knows?
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 11:53am |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Heeerman!
Calm down, boy.
Hold on...it's the Hot Spot, after all.
Go on Herman! :
I enjoyed the demo. Sure, it may be not another Deus Ex like we know it, but the physics model and the various strategies are fun indeed. Perhaps it's just the demo that's flawed.
Ok, let me tell: I don't think so
I guess they made the appropriate changes in order to keep it console-compatible. (Herman, please don't kill me)
They ruined a lot of gameplay elements and sacrificed logic in many ways. I guess they tried to make it available to any type of gamer by taking out complexity whereever they could. I heard that Warren Spector wasn't too happy about this and that which confirms my fears.
I think I'll have fun with that game nevertheless.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 11:54am |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By DracheHexe (1 DEC 2003 5:46am)
However, the game is getting kick-ass reviews from people who have got to play near complete versions of the game.
Care to drop some of those sources?
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 12:02pm |
| Deleted User | As far as I know, it's only IGN that's given it a good score from its exclusive review. I don't trust exclusives, maybe only previews, as they're often a bad indicator of how good a game is as the reviewer's too hyped up.
Wait a couple of weeks for the others to come in. Gamespot's running a story about the bad reaction to the demo... to be honest, it's amazing that Ion didn't pull it back a few months and just release the Xbox version. Sure, it would've been Xbox Xclusive, but at least the PC version could've been worked on more.
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 12:16pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Wolfboy (30 NOV 2003 8:19pm)
All of these things are irrelevant if it has a good storyline.
It was the gameplay and storyline that made the origional so good. The pacing and interaction made it a brilliant game. You can't really tell on the gameplay from a demo, only the interface. And an interface isn't especially important - Grim Fandango is still a great game, even if some people struggled with the interface. Monkey Island 4 had the same interface, but the game itself sucked.
No, they're not irrelevant. Of course things like the storyline are very important, but if you're struggling with a bad interface all the time it tarnishes the whole experience. And gameplay sounds like a mixed bag - I'm sure the freedom and flexibility that characterised gameplay in Deus Ex are still there, but on the other hand a lot of people are angry about issues like the removal of the skills system, and the fact that you can't kill an enemy with a single shot to the head.
From what I've read of DX: IW, including this official review at Gamespy, it sounds like it's still a pretty good game. It's just that it doesn't sound nearly as good as the original Deus Ex, and that's a serious problem for a sequel because you can't help comparing it to the first game. For example, if I'd never played the first two Myst games I'd probably have loved Exile, but after Riven it just felt like a huge disappointment.
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 12:22pm |
Herman ToothrotSpace Cadet
Posts : 199
Joined: 22 SEP 2003
Status : Online | I guess they made the appropriate changes in order to keep it console-compatible.
I don't doubt this for a second. I only care about the story though. The game could look like ass, and I'd still eagerly buy it.
I only take issue with the people who claim they loved the original because the story was so well written, but then proceed to piss and moan that they won't buy the sequel because the graphics aren't up to snuff or the physics are wonky.
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/kevmac179/sirius_pirate.jpg[/img]
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 12:30pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Herman Toothrot (1 DEC 2003 12:21pm)
I only take issue with the people who claim they loved the original because the story was so well written, but then proceed to piss and moan that they won't buy the sequel because the graphics aren't up to snuff or the physics are wonky.
Everyone raves about the story in the original, but to be honest I didn't think it was that wonderful. It was overly convoluted, and the whole 'let's throw together every conspiracy theory ever written' idea just didn't appeal to me. However, I have to admit that it had much more depth than your typical FPS plot.
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 1:13pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | The review on Gamespy is quite good I think. It confirms my impression of the game (the demo) so far.
1. The main character just is not as cool as JC Denton was. That's hardly possible I guess.
2. AI is still far from brilliant, but better than Deus Ex. It's true, the AI wasn't that good, but I didn't bother too much so I should be fine with this one.
3. The simplification do not downgrade the game to such extent as many of us might fear. I'm ok with that. It's a bit disappointing though. I was one of those who especially loved the inventory management. Gone. The wide array of ammo. Gone. The skills (well, I didn't really need any sniper skills to become a professional sniper, with some training you can do it at level 1 and the AI made things easier anyway) have been abolished. Completely gone. Multitools and lockpicking. All in one.
I will miss those features, but it won't ruin the game for me.
4. Performance issues. I will have to upgrade in order to play I'm afraid. Let's see. Maybe I will stick to low performance.
5. Depth and length. Deus Ex cannot be beaten. Period. It's not possible to improve on this. Maybe in DX3 (I doubt it). That's sad to hear. 15 hours is not exactly much to do. I hope it has a really high replayability factor. Imagine my surprise when I came to Hongkong and thought, "I bet I'm close to the finish now.", and I wasn't. Not at all. It kept going on for another 15 - 20 hours or something. Amazing. This game is incredibly full of content. DX2 won't give me half of that. Hopefully they will provide for more add-on missions. Deus Ex was high in the modding sector, but never got to anything worthwhile. I think there's not even one complete mod out by now, is there?
The community wanted to create a Deus Ex online multiplayer game world. Still underway? I guess not.
All in all it sounds like I will love the game for the old strengths although many of them are gone. But new ones are added. The physics model will open up new opportunities and stuff to try. Can't wait.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 2:31pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Elfstone (1 DEC 2003 1:12pm)
The review on Gamespot is quite good I think. It confirms my impression of the game (the demo) so far.
There's a review at Gamespot? Where? Do you mean Gamespy?
Oh yes, and I agree about the 15-hour playing time - it's simply pathetic. Deus Ex was at least twice as long as that, and had loads of replayability.
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 4:03pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ksandra (1 DEC 2003 2:31pm)
There's a review at Gamespot? Where? Do you mean Gamespy?
Oh. Sure. It's edited.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 5:22pm |
| Deleted User | That's OK. You could've wrote "IGN" like me instead.
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 6:43pm |
ArmstrongIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 12
Joined: 25 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Herman Toothrot (1 DEC 2003 12:21pm)
I don't doubt this for a second. I only care about the story though. The game could look like ass, and I'd still eagerly buy it.
I only take issue with the people who claim they loved the original because the story was so well written, but then proceed to piss and moan that they won't buy the sequel because the graphics aren't up to snuff or the physics are wonky.
I doubt this is the case for most people because a lot of the enjoyment of Deus Ex was derived from its game mechanics AND storyline. The gameplay was relatively unique to System Shock 2 and Deus Ex at the time which factored into the overall gaming experience. Ion storm dumbed a lot of that down this time around and it looks like they made the game a lot shorter too. If an action/adventure game is going to have crappy graphics on a high end machine and sucky gameplay then it's probably better to just rent a movie. In that case it doesn't matter how good the storyline is because most people don't buy a action/adventure game to just watch cutscenes.
I'm taking a more pessimistic outlook on this after reading some of the IS development team's comments. It seems like they dumbed it down intentionally to make it "accessible" to everyone (ie. most consumers on the xbox.) Spector even said that the original was a little too complex for most people.
|
| 1 DEC 2003 at 6:55pm |
Herman ToothrotSpace Cadet
Posts : 199
Joined: 22 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with a lot of the changes, but they're not deal breakers for me.
Although, I was one of the very few who thought the original was too long. I like long games(I've already put about 100 hours into Baldur's Gate 2), but I thought that Deus Ex overstayed by maybe 10 or so hours of gameplay. I remember when I first played, about the time I was playing the section in Paris, I was thinking "Jesus, when is this game going to end?!?" Those last couple of levels kind of degenerated into pure combat, so I was starting to lose interest.
While 15 hours of gameplay is a tad short for the sequel, I can't say I spent more than a minute or two lamenting it.
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/kevmac179/sirius_pirate.jpg[/img]
|
| 2 DEC 2003 at 11:38am |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | I agree that the first game was slightly too long, but 15 hours is way, way too short. Replaying it is not the same because you'll already know most of the plot and be playing most of the same missions, even if there are some new ones.
By the way, the Gamespot review is now up. The reviewer spends most of the time complaining about all the game's problems, then gives it 8 out of 10... go figure.
|
| 2 DEC 2003 at 3:51pm |
SingerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Online | It's a lot shorter than the original, but 15 hours is pretty standard in the FPS genre now. Yes, I know DE isn't a full-blown shooter, but those are its contemporaries.
That Gamespot review DOES read strangely, doesn't it? Just based on content, I'd have expected a lower score.
Amazingly, though the game is only scheduled to hit shelves TODAY, there are already 71 reader reviews that rate it a 4/10. :
|
