| 17 NOV 2002 at 10:00pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | i think this was asked before... personally i try not using a walkthru but since i mostly want to have fun while playing an adv i sometimes succumb in order not to break everything within my reach out of frustration... sometimes this backfires though since the solution turns out to be smth extremely easy or smth i haven't noticed (and exit or an item) and this frustrates me more! but sometimes i admit that i wouldn't have thought of that in a million years... mostly it's the 1st situtation though >
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 17 NOV 2002 at 10:35pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5536
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | I'd say I'm fairly patient. I spent over a year on and off playing Riven before I looked for help. Granted, that's a very extreme case, but generally I like to try everything that I can think of to get by a puzzle, and then will probably end up wandering around hoping to stumble on something. I may put the game down for awhile if I get frustrated, but when I find myself spending time being bored instead of having fun then I usually get help, starting with UHS hints so that I can get the exact amount of help I need and not spoil the whole puzzle or game. Best hint site out there!
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| 17 NOV 2002 at 10:46pm |
paulieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 32
Joined: 15 NOV 2002
Status : Online | If at all possible i try not to use a walkthru, although i have used them at the odd time.
Often though, when your really stuck in a game and you decide to finally check out a walkthru the solution seems so incredibly easy. You then wonder how you couldn't work it out yourself and you feel like a cheat.
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| 17 NOV 2002 at 10:48pm |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | When the game stops being fun or interesting because the puzzle is so illogical or obtruse that I have tried for a few days and all I have accomplished is clicking everywhere, trying everything and not seeing the forest for the trees. Am very bad at music and math puzzles.
Do think that when I get that way that walking away from the game til the next morning or later (which I do) helps.
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| 17 NOV 2002 at 10:52pm |
josieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 86
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I try for about 30 mins or so then hubby and kids try.
Sometimes I do go for about a day tho.
Josie
JOSIE
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 12:05am |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | i only resort to a walkthru when i'm ready to strangle the first living thing that walks within arms length of me and my computer...LOL
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 1:12am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I'd like to agree with sennebec here, but the fact is that I'm a wuss. I give in to temptation way too easily. I'm OK in the beginning, usually, but after I give in the first time, it's really hard not to go back.
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 1:27am |
| Deleted User | I REALLY TRY to make my way without them, but...
I still have on my heart The Longest Journey where I forgot the monkey in the alley and I didn't have his *** eye. I still feel dirty from that one. :-X
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 1:30am |
BelindaSchattenjger
Posts : 2093
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I agree with mostly everyone here about using walk-thru's. Before I even install a game, I find the walkthru and print it out. I won't read it though. I'll keep trying on a puzzle till I can't take it no more.....and then check the walkthru. If I start to get bored with a game, or really difficult, then I'll use the walkthru alot to hurry and finish the game.
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 3:11am |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I'm very.....very......very......very patient, but in some cases, it's literally impossible figure out a puzzle....
Actually I'm lost and bogged in Traitor's Gate about 30 days! None progress.......And I'm trying every day!!!!
Wow! I'm really CRAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
 &&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 8:01am |
LauraIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 35
Joined: 9 NOV 2002
Status : Online | I like what Red said, when the game stops being fun I'll look, but mostly I try not to use them. There's a great deal of satisfaction in finally working something out that's been puzzling you for a while, I think it's called the Ah-ha feeling.
I never feel guilty if I look and it was something completely obscure, or worse, if it's something I've already tried a number of times but I was clicking in slightly the wrong place.
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 8:06am |
OmniaIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 25
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Well, it depends on the game. If a puzzle is fair and I like the game I feel good about spending a good amount of time chewing on a problem. Most of the games I have are well-known classics and there are walkthroughs aplenty. Playing a really new game can be a refreshing experience as no walkthrough exists.
Sometimes I am so immersed in the story that a I-want-my-cookie-and-cutscene-and-progress-too mentality takes over. This happened in Myst III: Exile and that crystal puzzle. I spent a ton of time on, thought I had it, applied the information but it didn't work, got frustrated, went to a walkthrough and realized I had been looking at the clues the wrong way. Ugh. Still I had my pretty cutscene. Wheee, eye candy Looking back though, I'm glad I didn't just blindly rush to a walkthrough. It's nice to sink my teeth into the game's puzzley goodness and see what happens.
For example, when I was playing Grim Fandango, I got stuck three times and simply couldn't figure it out, but I wanted, nay, needed to advance the story, so I UHS'd my way out. They were that pesky forklift dilemma, that annoying safe combination lock and getting the message to the botanist. Ugh. But I really try to gnaw and chew on something until I realize it's just not gonna click and I don't have the patience to wait for the eureka moment (which doesn't always come anyway.)
Another walkthrough moment was in one of my all-time favorite games The Longest Journey where once again there were puzzles I was willing to work through because I enjoyed them, understood them and wanted to do on my own while there were a healthy bunch that I just didn't have the patience for. That infernal crystal puzzle got to me as did the pizza box dilemma. Still if these things happen I feel the developers have had their just deserts and I have been beaten by a good puzzle. Fair enough. The pizza box puzzle though is annoying because it simply *will not* appear unless you accomplish task A to trigger event B (the pizza box appearing). That was a bit annoying.
Having said all that it gives a perverse and geeky pride to have played my favorite game ever Riven without using a walkthrough. I did get one hint though that if I hadn't got I never would have finished the game. Had to do with, um, things that open and close. You know what I mean. Never would have thought of that in a million years. Wheesh.
In general though I say give a puzzle or a problem in a game a fair amount of effort and mental gnawing, maybe sleep on it, and if nothing comes, hey, it's just a game.
I can only tolerate a moderate amount of self-torture before I give in. To each their own and the walkthrough writers be praised for their efforts as they save us from hurling our computers out the window and other acts of weird and random violence.
Well, happy gaming,
Omnia
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 10:22am |
Steve IncePrivate Detective
Posts : 571
Joined: 7 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | What I find frustrating as a dveloper is when people use a walkthrough and then complain that the game isn't long enough. Part of the length of a game is based upon the player having to work through the puzzles, taking time to make the connections themselves.
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 10:53am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Diamond (18 NOV 2002 10:21am)
What I find frustrating as a dveloper is when people use a walkthrough and then complain that the game isn't long enough.
It's not the length, it's the difficulty, take GK3 for an example.
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 10:57am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Thank you, Omnia, for going to the trouble of responding in great detail, without any spoilers. That was way cool of you
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 12:21pm |
msadvIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 66
Joined: 1 NOV 2002
Status : Online | When I first started playing adv games I didn't know about walkthroughs so I plowed through Myst and Riven on my own. Took forever. Then I got really desperate one day with ROTS, signed on and searched for some forum where maybe people talked about games. Eureka! I discovered the walkthrough. Sometimes I wish I hadn't because I reach for it probably more than I really have to. But then again...I'm not crazy about going crazy
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 1:04pm |
| Deleted User | I mostly play my adventure games at work
(no - really!).
When I get stuck I can usually find some of the chaps I work with are willing to have a go at a particular problem for me.
When I finally worked my way through the underground railway in Myst - it was thanks to the collaberation of a lot of other people.
I WOULD have used a walkthrough at that point -= but didn't have web access at the time to get one.
I don't feel I've failed if I have to use one once in a while - but I try to download ONLY the part of the walkthrough that relates to my problem.
The temptation to peek would be too much otherwise.
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 1:59pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | I remember back in the 80s (when walkthroughs were not that easy to find anyway), people who cheated were severely frowned upon by most. They weren't even considered real gamers and they weren't allowed to express their opinion on adventure games, as we believed that the only way of appreciating a game was completing it without any help.
Today, people play games (which by the way, are much easier today) for five minutes and then log on the internet to search for a walkthrough or better yet, post a question at a newsgroup such as:
"HELP! THIS IS DRIVING ME CRAZY! I've been playing ... for a full 5 minutes and I'm stuck! I have tried everything and I cannot open the door in the first scene! I push, pull, nothing. All I have in my inventory is a key. Please e-mail me at ... because I can't be arsed to check this group every hour like you low lifes do".
Even worse, when I tell people I don't like walkthroughs they treat me like an abomination of nature, an abnormal being who does not do "like everyone else".
Well, times change I guess...
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 2:20pm |
HelenGuild Master
Posts : 3436
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Well, it depends, When Shivers and 7th Guest 1st came out, if there were walkthrus I certainly didnt know about them and I played those along with GK1 without a walkthru, I'll tell ya, it was really hard, I think that was in 1993 or 1994, took me MONTHS to finish those games.
Some games give you absolutely no clue on what you need to do, so personally I like the walkthru, I dont print them out though, I just save them to desktop so Im not as tempted to look, ( cuz I hate to quit the game to look at it ) but yes I dont think there is anything wrong with using a walkthru, to each his own, I do try to figure out for myself first, but once I get really frustrated I go to the walkthru, its much better to do that , then give up and never finish. Because thats what will usually happen.
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 2:34pm |
ErpyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 74
Joined: 18 NOV 2002
Status : Online | When I started playing adventures (Sierra's parser game period), I had no choice but to use walkthroughs as I could hardly write a word english.
Many years later, I wish I could forget the puzzles in those adventures, so I could replay them and relive the full experience. (heck, that would be cool)
I usually try to find out things myself, but sometimes can't resist the temptation of peeking so I can proceed. Depending on whether the puzzle was logical/fair enough, I either beat myself over the head or toss a snapping "HowwasIsupposedtoknowthat?" at the game.
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| 18 NOV 2002 at 10:07pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By alkis21
Even worse, when I tell people I don't like walkthroughs they treat me like an abomination of nature, an abnormal being who does not do "like everyone else"..
Good Lord - isn't that a wee bit harsh?
Surely you're not vilified just for trying? :
I think if someone wants to spend good money on a game and then use a walkthrough - that's democracy.
They've bought the game - they can play it how they like
I wouldn't - that's why I pay my cash ...
I want the thrill of solving puzzles.
I find that I get into the developers mind-set and can see where he's coming from - a bit like a regular crossword puzzle.
But sometimes - I need help!
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| 19 NOV 2002 at 1:53am |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Hi all,
I use walkthroughs whenever I feel I need to use them. It's not that I don't like to get a puzzle right, but I don't play adventure games for the puzzles. All that being said, I do prefer a puzzle that makes sense in the game context.
I also prefer adventure games that aren't all that long. Hmm, perhaps I have a limited attention span!
Regards, mszv
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| 19 NOV 2002 at 2:15am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4940
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I'm in Medicro's camp!
Puzzles are obviously part of the Adventure game genre. I would only use a walkthru as an absolute last resort eg. the only time I did in Myst was where I was using a tiny laptop monitor and wouldn't have been able to see the place I needed to click if I'd wanted to!
To each his own, but I am rather surprised at those who seem to think nothing of using walkthrus for almost any game they play. It makes me wonder- what's the point?
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 19 NOV 2002 at 2:58am |
OmniaIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 25
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I have a great deal of respect for anyone who can get through games without a walkthrough. It's very cool indeed to work through a difficult and challenging game on one's own.
I keep trying, but the willpower just isn't there. Knowing that the answer, the solution to the problem that is keeping me up at nights, the very answer lies within a few mouse clicks--it is difficult to resist for those of us who are weak, who want to finish the game sometime this millenium, who don't want to hit a wall and be stuck staring at the bricks for eternity, who want to at least see the rest of the game. It's just as easy to take the hard line--it's cheating, it's evil, it's cheap. I can't argue with that.
I fall in the middle. If done too often, it takes the fun out of the game. If used sparingly for those brick wall moments, well, this isn't exactly supposed to be a form of self-torture (for me anyway).
And who needs another coaster or mobile material? Getting through and seeing the game rather than giving up entirely is definitely a Good Thing(TM).
I guess it's a very personal thing and this is all rather moot.
Yes I try to resist. I chew, I gnaw, but eventually, I can't stand it anymore and UHS comes to my rescue. I almost always feel pretty stupid afterwards. So I try to hold out as long as I can. Like just yesterday I was trying to make some progress early on in Loch Ness. I couldn't get anywhere at all. I broke down and UHS'd my way to the solution, which of course was that I had overlooked something in a place I probably wouldn't have clicked on for an eternity. I guess there was a hint at the beginning cutscene I missed. !Doh! Still this kind of thing adds to my adventure gaming experience and I'll simply know to sharpen my senses and pay more attention.
I have mostly only older games and there are walkthroughs aplenty for all of them. So one thing I'm trying to do is get a couple of the newest good *and* challenging titles and see what I can do without even the possibility of resorting to a walkthrough. Because, even though I lie smack in the middle of the road when it comes to using walkthroughs and bend to temptation more often then I care to think about, it is indeed nice to complete a game all by oneself.
Happy gaming all and may the Force be with you, always,
Omnia
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