| 13 NOV 2003 at 6:43am |
Herman ToothrotSpace Cadet
Posts : 199
Joined: 22 SEP 2003
Status : Online | I thought it was a great ending. We rarely get a game ending where everything isn't all sunshine and gumdrops. I liked the fact that Samuel was all too human and succumed to depression and madness to the point where he had to take his own life.
In a way, it's more normal than so called action game heroes who wade through blood-soaked carcasses with a grin on their face.
Although to be fair, there could have been more resolution with the curse and stopping Mordred.
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/kevmac179/sirius_pirate.jpg[/img]
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| 13 NOV 2003 at 7:24am |
PamelaSpace Cadet
Posts : 152
Joined: 10 APR 2003
Status : Online | Yes there should have been something more. But let me tell you, when I play a game that lasts that long I WANT a happy ending especially when you get a chance to bond with the characters after playing for so long and getting into the storyline.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~&& Sierra, come to your senses!
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| 13 NOV 2003 at 7:35am |
GreatPumpkinSpace Cadet
Posts : 162
Joined: 19 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Not only was the ending short, but it was unclear. Did Samuel stop the curse by imprisoning or releasing the evil spirit? Or did he fail to stop it at all and that is why he jumped? I basically had no idea what the heck just happened, and the fact that "here there are no judges to judge us" didn't clear anything up. Pretty lame ending all around.
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| 13 NOV 2003 at 7:49am |
Herman ToothrotSpace Cadet
Posts : 199
Joined: 22 SEP 2003
Status : Online | I think the cutscene indicated he had closed the portal to the "Black Mirror" that Mordred was supposed to come through, thus ending the curse.
The one plot point I was hoping for more info on was why Robert was trying to resurrect Mordred. I'm sure it was for power, but still, there had to be something more behind it. And the plot seemed to indicate that the serum Robert had developed was some sort of mind-control agent that he had given to Samuel. I would've liked to know a bit more behind that as well.
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/kevmac179/sirius_pirate.jpg[/img]
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| 13 NOV 2003 at 12:29pm |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I agree, was totally confused with the ending.
I thought the person who had all five keys would unlease what's his face and evil would reign the world. Instead I get a giant room with a giant throne. I expected that when he put the keys in someone or thing would appear on the throne.
I don't mind doom and gloom endings so was fine with the leap.
I just thought it would end with a bang when he went through the portal.
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| 14 NOV 2003 at 3:05am |
AkhillesPrivate Detective
Posts : 581
Joined: 21 JUL 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Incredible game! I thought at first, the deadpan delivery of the main character was too dry, but I guess it grew on me.
The puzzles were'nt too hard.
What's with the decorations? I mean.. I understand skulls all over the place.. giving it a dark feel.. but.. who decorates their manor in naked women? Tacky, tacky.
Interface. The right-click was annoying. Many times if you got frustrated.. right away you knew.. the "alternate" search or "examine" mode of the right mouse button would result in the character looking for items, etc. It took pixel hunting to a new level (even more bloody frustrating).
The right click could have been better suited with an interface for using, examining, dropping, etc.
Some of the typical adventure gameplay could have been left out.. i.e. having to wander around and keep going back until a character was "ready" to tell you/help you with something. Ugh what a crappy mechanism.
Other than that.. outstanding!
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
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| 14 NOV 2003 at 9:54pm |
DracheHexeIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 39
Joined: 26 AUG 2003
Status : Online | Lots of spoilers here.............and my personal and heated opinion of The Black Mirror
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Fist off, I want to say that over all I enjoyed The Black Mirror. Awsome graphics and atmosphere, great weather effects, killer plot.
*SPOILER ALERT*
However, it had the worst ending ever. It was also very predictable. I knew he was the killer early on and I knew he was going to die in the end. And of course he commits suicide.
Now I don't have to have a happy ending in my games as long as they make sense. I've read so many horror novels that don't have happy endings it would make your head spin.
But lets look at the facts.
1) We never learn any specific details (or even vague details) about the mirror. We never learn what its purpose is, whats on the other side, where it came from, yada yada. Thre is one brief tale that mentions it and that is all.
2) Wasn't Samuel supposed to be the man who reopened the gate and release the evil. That is what the curse said. Instead he seals the gate (or so we can assume, but can't be sure) and then takes a header off the tower. We don't even know why he kills himself, he would have more likely gone mad and been interred in the sanitorium in my opinion.
3)We never learn how or why Samuel commits the murders. Was he possessed? Split-Personality? What were the forces behind his being the one to fullfill the curses prophecy.
All of this leads up to not knowing what in hell really happened. Every aspect of all connection to Mordred and the mirror is vague at best.
4) All of the other plot elements; Robert and the Doctor, Williams bastard son, the butlers silence, the preachers willful ignorance, all lead nowhere. They carry on nicely for a bit and then just dead end into oblivion.
All I can say is that in the end it was a big let down. They built up the supense very well, the pacing of the game was superb, the sound and most graphics were excellent, and interface was nicely done. But then then they tripped at the finish line.
Cheers for a game that kept me on edge, jeers because it couldn't decide if it had the guts to push me off the edge or not.
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| 14 NOV 2003 at 11:06pm |
CountryEasternSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 250
Joined: 2 NOV 2003
Status : Online | ** SPOILER ALERT, CONTINUED **
Better scripting and directing were necessary. Just as with major motion pictures, all elements have to work together to create a true classic--acting, direction, editing, setting, costumes, pace, writing, etc. If one element fails, so does part of the experience.
I put up with--and ultimately ignored--the drab acting in the game, but the direction and editing of Black Mirror was only adequate and didn't equal the high quality of the graphics, atmophere, themes, etc. If the acting had been better, the game would have really soared! Even the thinnest of plots can take off with interesting characters.
The ending didn't bother me because the script did not really build toward a good dramtic climax. A "happy" ending would have simply been a resolution with all loose ends tied up, allowing all of us to go to bed with feeling of closure. A suicide is certainly dramatic, but not satisfying. I'm left feeling restless and in doubt and not at all willing the endure a monotone sequel---unless, of course, one is actually produced.
But wouldn't a sequel have been much more dramatic and magnetic if our villain lived on.....?
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| 15 NOV 2003 at 3:16am |
AkhillesPrivate Detective
Posts : 581
Joined: 21 JUL 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I must be a gimp then.. I didn't see the ending coming... I didn't know who the killer was.. it was a shock to me (like it was to the character )
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
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| 15 NOV 2003 at 3:26am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By DracheHexe (14 NOV 2003 9:54pm)
I knew he was the killer early on and I knew he was going to die in the end. And of course he commits suicide.
I don't see how you could have been certain early on. How? There were the dreams, and his feeling of guilt and urgency, but other than that...? I admit that the end came as a surprise to me as well.
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| 15 NOV 2003 at 5:16am |
Herman ToothrotSpace Cadet
Posts : 199
Joined: 22 SEP 2003
Status : Online | I knew that Samuel was the killer right after the first murder of the gardener. These types of stories always seem to turn out with you being the unknowing killer.
And DracheHexe, about your third question. It's never overtly omitted two, but when reading Robert's journals about creating some sort of a serum that effects the brain, and then his ominous threat of "... and I know just whose veins to inject it into!" I think it points out that Robert was trying to resurrect Mordred and was using a drugged Samuel to do his dirty work.
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/kevmac179/sirius_pirate.jpg[/img]
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| 15 NOV 2003 at 5:04pm |
DracheHexeIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 39
Joined: 26 AUG 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Herman Toothrot (15 NOV 2003 5:16am)
It's never overtly omitted two, but when reading Robert's journals about creating some sort of a serum that effects the brain, and then his ominous threat of "... and I know just whose veins to inject it into!"
That portion of the journal was talking about injecting James. What I meant was that Robert's experiments were, I think, intentionally unrelated to the main plot to be used as sort of a red herring. My problem is that they never came clean with the truth. I would have liked all twists and turns resolved.
I don't see how you could have been certain early on.
Well, I've been reading horror novels for about 25 years and playing adventure game for about the same. After awhile certain plot twists and elements are easily picked up on. It's more of "been there, done that", not natural intuition.
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| 15 NOV 2003 at 6:38pm |
VarulvenIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 32
Joined: 2 JUN 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By DracheHexe (15 NOV 2003 5:04pm)
That portion of the journal was talking about injecting James. What I meant was that Robert's experiments were, I think, intentionally unrelated to the main plot to be used as sort of a red herring. My problem is that they never came clean with the truth. I would have liked all twists and turns resolved.
That's what I assumed, but I can sort of see how it could go either way. If it was Robert, more explanation was needed. What bothers me even more than that is how the heck did William die? We're given hints that there is something important the Doctor isn't telling us about William's death (involving the never-explained burn marks). Samuel came to Black Mirror because of the mourning card, right? Did Mordred!Samuel come to the manor, bump off his grandfather, and then travel back to his prior lodgings just to wait for the mourning card?
Also, I was rather annoyed that all the moaning about Catherine (was that her name?) at the very beginning of the game never went anywhere. That part was, IMO, the worst written dialogue of the entire game but I figured it was leading somewhere. Turns out it was just a plot device to explain why Samuel left. :-/
Well, I've been reading horror novels for about 25 years and playing adventure game for about the same. After awhile certain plot twists and elements are easily picked up on. It's more of "been there, done that", not natural intuition.
I'd say the clue that nailed it for me (I'd suspected since the beginning too) was when the police inspector was questioning Samuel at Stonering. He asks where Samuel was when he assumes the murder took place, and Samuel had the Wales alibi - but we, as the player, know that all the other death dreams matched up pretty well with the time the murder took place and Samuel had the dream about Vick before he went to Wales.
I quite liked the game, and liked Samuel's end (it was the only part of Black Mirror where I cared about him) but there were a lot of things I thought they left hanging.
[i]Excerpt from a Banff wildlife guide...[/i]&&&&Hikers are advised to wear bells on their clothing when in bear country. The bells warn away MOST bears... the bells have proven to be somewhat ineffective in preventing confrontations with Grizzly bears. Hikers should carefully watch the trail for animal droppings, which would indicate that a bear is in the vicinity. Be alert for the droppings of Grizzly bears, which can easily be distinguished by the bells they contain.
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| 15 NOV 2003 at 8:13pm |
Herman ToothrotSpace Cadet
Posts : 199
Joined: 22 SEP 2003
Status : Online | I'm pretty sure the serum was used on Samuel. In that same passage you mentioned, he says that he can no longer do experiments on James and his fellow inmates because people will get suspicious. Then he makes the threat of knowing whose veins to inject it into.
That pretty much spells it out to me that he was going to use it on Samuel.
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/kevmac179/sirius_pirate.jpg[/img]
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| 16 NOV 2003 at 4:23am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Varulven (15 NOV 2003 6:38pm)
I'd say the clue that nailed it for me (I'd suspected since the beginning too) was when the police inspector was questioning Samuel at Stonering. He asks where Samuel was when he assumes the murder took place, and Samuel had the Wales alibi - but we, as the player, know that all the other death dreams matched up pretty well with the time the murder took place and Samuel had the dream about Vick before he went to Wales.
Aha! Very clever of you.
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| 16 NOV 2003 at 7:49pm |
plswdthSpace Cadet
Posts : 182
Joined: 21 JUL 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Varulven (15 NOV 2003 6:38pm)
That's what I assumed, but I can sort of see how it could go either way. If it was Robert, more explanation was needed. What bothers me even more than that is how the heck did William die? We're given hints that there is something important the Doctor isn't telling us about William's death (involving the never-explained burn marks). Samuel came to Black Mirror because of the mourning card, right? Did Mordred!Samuel come to the manor, bump off his grandfather, and then travel back to his prior lodgings just to wait for the mourning card?
Also, I was rather annoyed that all the moaning about Catherine (was that her name?) at the very beginning of the game never went anywhere. That part was, IMO, the worst written dialogue of the entire game but I figured it was leading somewhere. Turns out it was just a plot device to explain why Samuel left. :-/
I'd say the clue that nailed it for me (I'd suspected since the beginning too) was when the police inspector was questioning Samuel at Stonering. He asks where Samuel was when he assumes the murder took place, and Samuel had the Wales alibi - but we, as the player, know that all the other death dreams matched up pretty well with the time the murder took place and Samuel had the dream about Vick before he went to Wales.
I quite liked the game, and liked Samuel's end (it was the only part of Black Mirror where I cared about him) but there were a lot of things I thought they left hanging.
I had the impression Willliam committed suiciide just like Samuel--what was climbing up the tower and opening the shutters was just indicative of his realization he had been murdering, like Samuel at the end. Perhaps the burns somehow "appear" like a cursed mark once the person realizes what they are doing?
As far as Catherine, I have a strong suspicion she was Samuel's first kill, which is why she was so important. Samuel knew subconciously what he was doing, and it is why he left the manor and has so much guilt about her.
Note they made a big deal out of letting on that the people that worked at the manor had not been there for long, except the butler....had William killed the previous workers?
And why is the butler immune? I have a feeling he is somehow channeling Mordred.....he is the only one we ever see in the basement of the manor besides Samuel....in a very omnious way, holding a knife.
Hopefully there will be a sequel to tie up all these loose ends!
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| 25 NOV 2003 at 12:58am |
adventuredogGuild Master
Posts : 3255
Joined: 14 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | I really enjoyed The Black Mirror: wonderful graphics, acting, gameplay, sensible and logical puzzles, etc.
**Lots of Spoilers**
My only complaint is the lack of clear resolution to the story. Would really like some kind of sequel or just an explanation from the developers to tie up the loose ends.
The story seemed to be TOO condensed, and several questions are left unanswered. Among them:
What (who) caused William to leap from the tower. What exactly had William dicovered? Was something crawling up the tower? Was it Samuel?
How could Samuel have committed ALL those murders and have no recollection except for the weird nightmares? He seemed as horrified as anyone.
Why kill the boy? What happened to the stable man?
Why was Bates so loyal?
Was Robert's serum experiments just a side plot and red herring? How did James fit in?
What exactly happened at the end? id he really stop the curse? Or just put it off on another heir to tackle?
Still adventuring after all these years!
Patiently awaiting The Last Crown: Haunting of Hallowed Isle, and Bracken Tor...
... and Asylum if it's not tooooo scary...
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| 25 NOV 2003 at 1:28am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | What's wrong with having unanswered questions?
I forgot my sig.
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| 25 NOV 2003 at 1:46am |
adventuredogGuild Master
Posts : 3255
Joined: 14 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By MichalN (25 NOV 2003 1:27am)
What's wrong with having unanswered questions? Nothing really.
Don't get me wrong Michal. If these questions are never answered it won't spoil my enjoyment of the game. What would we have to speculate about then? In many ways it adds to the mystery! Look what happened when The Matrix was explained with two sequels (yes I know, really one).
Still adventuring after all these years!
Patiently awaiting The Last Crown: Haunting of Hallowed Isle, and Bracken Tor...
... and Asylum if it's not tooooo scary...
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| 25 NOV 2003 at 8:49am |
GreatPumpkinSpace Cadet
Posts : 162
Joined: 19 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By MichalN (25 NOV 2003 1:27am)
What's wrong with having unanswered questions?
What's wrong with having unanswered questions is I paid $30 and spent a couple of weeks playing a game with no resolution and giant plot holes. It's not like it is some sort of post-modern ambiguous ending or something. It's just a sloppy, crappy game plot-wise. But, at least it was better than Runaway.
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| 25 NOV 2003 at 7:18pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By GreatPumpkin (25 NOV 2003 8:49am)
What's wrong with having unanswered questions is I paid $30 and spent a couple of weeks playing a game with no resolution and giant plot holes.
Make sure you never, ever watch a David Lynch movie or something. It could kill you.
I forgot my sig.
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| 25 NOV 2003 at 9:05pm |
GreatPumpkinSpace Cadet
Posts : 162
Joined: 19 OCT 2003
Status : Online | I checked out Twin Peaks Season 1 from the library, since many claim it is all that and a bag of chips. : I watched every single episode in hopes that any minute now it would click and I would "get it". Nope. Went to a few Twin Peaks sites to see what I was missing. Apparently nothing. And, from what I read about later episodes, it seems it just went from awful to appalling. Superficial weird for the sake of weird is just a big snoozer, and the basic "plot" didn't hang together at all.
I first started looking into Twin Peaks because of the Twim Peaks/Northern Exposure crossover. Now, Northren Exposure was a good show. (Well, up until Joel sort of left Mulder style.) I was hoping for something of that calibur. Instead TP was just a bunch of sub-New Outer Limits poo.
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| 25 NOV 2003 at 9:11pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I finished Black Mirror last night.
I didn't find the ending very satisfying - too many unanswered questions...
Since this seems to be a spoiler thread, I won't bother with spoiler space.
I first posted this over at Gameboomers, but no replies there yet.
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Who killed all those people?
Samuel couldn't have killed William. He wasn't even at the castle at the time. Did Robert kill William? Robert had William's will in his safe, which is suspicious. But then what were those burns on William's chest that Dr. Hermann mentioned? And who drew that rune on the side of the tower and why?
Who killed Henry the gardener? It may have been Samuel who dumped him in the fountain. But Dr. Hermann said that Henry hadn't drowned - that he'd died because every ounce of blood had been drained from his body. How would Samuel have had the power to do that? And who put the rune on the fountain? It was underwater. Or was the rune there long before Henry was killed? The rune looked freshly painted, but maybe it was magically preserved???
Did Samuel kill the kid Vick too? We didn't get too much information about Vick's wounds other than that a wolf or other animal couldn't have made those sorts of wounds. Could a knife have done it? Or was it another instance where no known object could have caused the damage? (as with Henry)
I don't doubt that Samuel killed Robert. He hated Robert once he found out what Robert had been doing. We also have James' word for it. And it's also likely that Samuel killed Dr. Hermann for his complicity in Robert's "experiments." Decapitation is certainly not a physically impossible method of murder.
Assuming some evil power took over Samuel's mind while he was sleeping and he committed murders in his sleep, I can accept that Samuel could have killed Robert, Dr. Hermann, and even Vick. But I don't see how he could have killed William or Henry. He wasn't anywhere around when William was killed and Henry's death had such an "impossible" cause that it must have been caused by magic. Or did Samuel have some "power" that he wasn't aware of? Could it have been that "power" that caused his wife's death? If he had any supernatural "power," Samuel didn't seem to be aware of it though. Could he have blocked out memory of it after his wife's death? Why did he feel responsible for her death?
Where were the runes from? Did the evil power make them magically appear in order to designate where a murder had to be committed or a "sacrifice" be made? Did the runes have some effect on people who were direct descendents of Marcus Gordon? Did the appearance of the rune on the tower cause William to jump out the window himself? If so, what caused the burns Dr. Hermann mentioned? Or did Dr. Hermann make that stuff up? (I don't see why he would).
Or did the runes appear AFTER the murders instead of before? Did they appear magically or did someone (Samuel?) paint them? If they were painted, how do you explain the one that was underwater in the fountain?
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| 26 NOV 2003 at 3:05am |
adventuredogGuild Master
Posts : 3255
Joined: 14 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Jenny -
Maybe the game is begging for a sequel - an interested investigator (could be another member of the family or is that branch wiped out now?). I was wondering if a werewolf or other creature was involved. Samuel did kill a wolf.
Was Samuel duped into thinking he had committed all/some of the crimes? id he really kill Robert or just come upon him. Were those just visions he had or was he there? He does keep waking up after his nightmares.
Still adventuring after all these years!
Patiently awaiting The Last Crown: Haunting of Hallowed Isle, and Bracken Tor...
... and Asylum if it's not tooooo scary...
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