| 5 NOV 2002 at 2:37am |
The Terror of the Wolf part 3Schattenjger
Posts : 2391
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Mystical, all the way.
[url=http://www.justadventure.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1136331866/0#0]GAMES FOR TRADE!![/url]
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 2:46am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Both. Can be even at the same time
I forgot my sig.
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 2:55am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By MichalN (5 NOV 2002 2:45am)
Both. Can be even at the same time
Yeah.. well you probaby wondering why would someone like me ask that : but we here at Razbor are having a mind-blowing-long-as-hell meetings as to how should we position the game really (instead of grouching about 3D effects). Also the quantity of lead-me-by-the-hand tactic is on display - should it be harder or easier to play, and i saw somebody mention illogical puzzles with no purpose (which We don't have ).
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 2:57am |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | My vote is for mystical.
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 3:02am |
RavensbreedSpace Cadet
Posts : 156
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Funny, definately funny, but I'd take mystical in a pinch.
Some people are like a slinky. They might not be good for anything, but its fun to watch them tumble down stairs. &&
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 3:03am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | I'll put it like this: a serious game probably has better chance of success. Not everyone likes the same kind of humor. Also if a game is to be funny, it better be good. There is nothing worse than a game (TV show, movie, whatever) that tries to be funny but isn't.
Both funny and serious games can be great. For serious, see Gabriel Knight. For funny, see Day of the Tentacle.
That said, little bits of humor in otherwise serious game usually don't hurt.
I forgot my sig.
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 3:19am |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | both...
separate or together...
"the quivering" was an interesting blend of atmospheres, don't cha think ?
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 4:56am |
STooGE4444, EastCoastDoom...Schattenjger
Posts : 2099
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Ahh the Quivering...those were the days...I still haven't got it yet but, "It will be mine. Oh yes, it will be mine."
I think I stay more glued to the game if it's humourous but if you have a really well written story and wasn't made for pure comedy then it has to be serious...
Or something of that nature...
~rbeeler SVT &&Name's STooGE$$$$ Valpurgius TNT; it's not PLURAL&&[img]http://www.riseaboverecords.com/sleep/image/sleepfront.gif[/img]&&151.Generally speaking Sludge Doomsters are Angry, Gothic doomsters are sad, funeral doomsters are barely breathing, death doomsters are dirty, drunk and dribbling, Stoner Doomsters don't care, drone doomsters are out of it and traditional Doomsters are permanently pissed off, mainly with other doomsters
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 5:16am |
| Deleted User | Depends! I was introduced to the Monkey Island series by a friend who thought them "hilarious" - I just thought those games were pretty unfunny. However, I played them - just didn't crack too many giggles LOL itto LSL ..... but they were non-shoot-ems and "adventure". I have played all the Indy games, loved the archeology bits but the flying monsters in the last one really annoyed me (zap,zap and I ended up playing God mode LOL). Despite the "mystical" stuff in TLJ I enjoyed that one, didn't fall down a hole or get killed regularly. Grim and MOTD didn't disturb me at all. I won't mention Syberia ..... didn't think that "mystical". (see comments under another post LOL)
As a reader of books I prefer the Thrillers - Le Carre, Forsyth, Ludlum - Spy genre - old hat now.
I haven't tried playing the "true Mysteries" like Sherlock et al ... I like the Jonathan Creek Mysteries on TV and all that ........ English "crime" without the shooting, I guess. When much younger, I read Agatha Christie and Nero Wolf ...... any games like that about?
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 7:59am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Both. Separately. Together works too, but I'm talking nice balance of wit and gravity. on't like B-movies, and don't like slapstick humour (much).
g
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 8:01am |
josieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 86
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Mystical
Josie
JOSIE
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 8:28am |
BTillerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 13
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I prefer comedy. I have worked on both serious (The Dig, Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine) and comedy (The Curse of Monkey Island). The writing in serious games almost always seems forced, unrealistic and some times just silly, which is Ok in a comedy game. We are so used to paying a measly $7 bucks for excellent writing in good movies, but even in good dramtic games the writing is just ok at best. There are exceptions, true, but for $20 to $40 I feel ripped off when playing a serious game for hours and the characters just act so unrealistic in order to fit the required actions of the puzzle. Plus serious games usually have these forced dramatic cinematic sequences that are so lame compared to movies and TV. It is ironic that for $7 bucks we can watch wonderful dramas like Gladiator, Lord of the Rings, and Black Hawk Down, and for free we can watch West Wing, ER and X Files. But we pay $20 to $40 to watch really bad writing and animation in adventure games. I think one problem is the game industry does not attract great writers, for the most part. And I think it is easier to write comedy because we all goof off and try to be funny all the time. We all know what is funny. But compare how many times a regular person tries to be funny in day with the amount of times they are trying to be dramatic. I bet it is a thousand to one. That is why I think funny adventure games work better then serious ones, because they ARE just as funny as TV and movies, and because more writers can be good at comedy then at drama.
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 8:44am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By BTiller (5 NOV 2002 8:28am)
But compare how many times a regular person tries to be funny in day with the amount of times they are trying to be dramatic. I bet it is a thousand to one.
Ohh... I dunno about that. I'm a Leo; I was born a drama queen
At any rate, I'd have to disagree. I'd reckon exactly the opposite, in fact. I think that just 'bout everyone experiences, at one time or another, "serious" things in their lives. The loss of a job, the death of a loved one, whatever. We all have a very deep emotional well, into which we can reach and grab those tears of sadness, or that glare of fury. rama is pretty universal; I would think there are very few who'd consider my examples a laughing matter.
Humour, on the other hand, is very subjective. Slapstick or dry wit? ennis Miller, or Andrew Dice Clay? Laurel and Hardy, or Kids in the Hall? I think it's infinitely more difficult to author prose that will be universally chuckle-worthy, than a tear-jerker or something inflammatory.
gita
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 8:45am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Good writing in... Hollywood movies? Was that supposed to be funny? Sure, Lord of the Rings is good, then again it is based on a real novel.
In my experience most Hollywood movies have one major problem, they're dreadfully predictable. I don't like that.
And I really don't think writing good comedy is easy. I'd say there are many more great dramas than great comedies. There are too many people who think they are funny but actually aren't.
I don't have a problem with a "serious" game that has some lighter moments. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis might be one example. I really liked Fallout which was mostly serious but sometimes gently reminded you that it was just a game.
I forgot my sig.
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 10:16am |
BTillerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 13
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I never said all of Hollywood produces better dramatic writing then games. The best of Hollywood blows away the best of adventure games. It is a matter of simple economics- movies pay more then adventure games, so the good dramatic writers go for the money. It is as simple as that. You can't find writing like Reservoir Dogs or Heat in any serious dramatic adventure game. All the good dramatic writers would rather make millions then a few thousand.
Funny adventure games are easier because more then one person writes for them. A typical movie script has 1000 to 2000 lines of dialog. The Fate of Atlantis had 10,000. It is an extremely difficult task to write all the lines for a typical adventure game by oneself.
But when you have a team of funny people all sitting in an office brainstorming you get a lot of funny ideas. That is how we made Curse of Monkey Island. None of us were professional writers, but we all had good senses of humor, and only our best ideas made it into the game. We ran gags and jokes past each other all the time. If we all felt it was funny, it staid, if sucked, it was gone.
Now sit that group in a room to come up with a good dramatic story and good dramatic dialog, it doesn't work.
True, a comedy writer may write something that isn't funny, but usually there is an editor the will weed the bad stuff out.
Let us say you have five guys and they write ten gags or jokes a day, but only one of them is good. Well then the person editing the writing then tosses the 45 bad jokes and keeps the five good jokes. The play testers say only two of those jokes are funny. So then you toss the marginal three jokes. Ultimately what gets into the game, if it is done right, should be damn funny. Look at every sitcom or comedy show like The Simpsons or Friends and you will see a list of staff writers. Comedy show writers all work the same way I described above because it increases the chance of good jokes coming out. Read Laughter on the 23rd floor, a play by Neil Simon to get idea of what being part of a comedy writing staff is like.
Try having a staff write for a drama and you get a soap opera. Having a writing staff doesn't usually work out as well as with comedy games. When I was on Brian Moriarty’s early version of The Dig, Brian insisted on writing all the lines for the game, and at that time it had four characters. In my opinion he bit off more then he could chew, and left before the games was done. Sean Clark and his staff of programmers did their best to write all the lines in the final version of the game, but it was really hard. We even brought in Orson Scott card to write for us, but in my humble opinion, the dialog in that game never came near the level of dialog in such movies as 2001: A Space Odyssey or even Star Trek: the Next Generation. They tried, God bless them, but it is a difficult task.
If you look at the credits on a good dramatic movie, most of the time you will see one person, maybe two or three script doctors as well. Citizen Kane had two writers and one script doctor. But look at a Disney or Pixar Movie like Monsters Inc. They had nine people doing story.
So take my advice, if you want to increase you chances of succeeding, go with comedy, unless you are the next Quentin Tarantino or Coen Brothers.
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 10:47am |
BTillerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 13
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | "I think that just 'bout everyone experiences, at one time or another, "serious" things in their lives. "
Yes, but that doesn't mean they can write well about it. Few can.
Comedy isn't easy either. That is why generally groups of writers work on projects,
But you hardly ever see groups of writers successfully create dramas. And adventure games require staffs of writers most of the time due to the thousand upon thousands of lines of dialog they require, and staffs of writers, in my humble opinion, work better in comedy forum then in drama.
There are always exceptions to the rule, of course, not too many.
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 11:11pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Mystical, and especially for a game like Legacy it should go mystical all the way. I don't think the story of the game and its graphics suit a funny theme. It should be serious imo.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 11:19pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By BTiller (5 NOV 2002 10:16am)
The best of Hollywood blows away the best of adventure games. It is a matter of simple economics- movies pay more then adventure games, so the good dramatic writers go for the money. It is as simple as that. You can't find writing like Reservoir Dogs or Heat in any serious dramatic adventure game. All the good dramatic writers would rather make millions then a few thousand.
[...]
So take my advice, if you want to increase you chances of succeeding, go with comedy, unless you are the next Quentin Tarantino or Coen Brothers.
All the quentin tarantino's and all the coen brothers can't make enough to surpass the talent of Jane Jensen, of Benoit Sokal and of Ragnar Tornquist.
You think movies are original? I'm sorry but I don't find them original at all. One guy made a movie where they show something from the end in the beginning and they make the end unexpected (12 Monkeys) and then you see thousands of movies in that style going out like they come from a factory. Think about it, think about all the latest films you have seen and they either show a shot from the end in the beginning or they have a very big twist near the end.
They are good movies but they are not original at all, they are just a copy of what was made before. Or how many movies have we seen with schizophrenic - double personality people.
In adventures however we have seen the mixture of real history with myths and the occult (Jane Jensen) we have seen the creation of a whole new mythology/religion about the world (Ragnar Tornquist) and we have seen a story about the possibilities that mechanics could have if not replaced by electricity (Benoit Sokal) and we have many more original stories (Broken Sword, Loom e.t.c).
So in my opinion adventures beat movies hands down. The fact that a movie is only 2 hours long and an adventure about 20 is also against movies.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 11:35pm |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Mystical (serious), but funny (hilarious) will do.
My personal preference is for mysterious, evocative, beautiful games, a bit on the lonely side. Myst, Syberia, Morpheus, these are my kind of games. If there's some scariness in a mysterious game (Dark Fall, I'm going to get it), I can go with that.
I do like different types of games, when I play them. I loved Grim Fandango and Obsidian, I enjoyed The Longest Journey, I'm enjoying Sanitariam. There are more. I'm also looking forward to Post Mortem, I can't wait. Paris in the 20s, at night, and you are in your own personal film noir. What could be better, from an ambience perspective! I can see it, the rain, the cafes, the street lights, the odd conversations, the late night rendevous, the unexpected mystery, the dimly lit cobblestone streets, the mysterious stranger, the dark secret, the unsolved murder, that underlying dread of........ I am so there! Hey, where's my unfiltered cigarette! (I don't smoke in real life).
This was supposed to be a thread where we all said what we liked in a game's "adventure & atmospheres". I'd like to know what "adventure & atmospheres" appeal to all you adventure gamers.
Regards, mszv
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| 5 NOV 2002 at 11:36pm |
FlameBoyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 48
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Comedy - life is serious enough. However, together is good too - I think TLJ did a good job of blending humour into a serious story.
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