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| 18 MAY 2003 at 9:26pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Betje (18 MAY 2003 7:44pm)
...or some of this category of games weren't very good in the first place...?
Really? Where does he say, imply, suggest that? You're twisting his words.
What he actually said was: "Every one of these games is a gem. Many of you will have never heard of some of them. A few have been only rumored to exist. No matter. Their quality is determined not by their recognition, but by their ability to captivate the adventure gamer. "
My dear Betje, how you do go on!
First of all, if you re-read my comment the category of games I was referring to when I said they are in a category of games that were never played for a reason [...] or some of this category of games weren't very good in the first place, I wasn't referring to the 10 games Randy referred to but the overall category of games that were (almost) never played. It stands to reason that some games might be in that category because they weren't very good. It's more likely that the 10 best games in that category would not be as likely to be bad games. Right?
And secondly, I wasn't quoting Randy in the first place, these were my comments, so how could I be twisting his words.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 18 MAY 2003 at 9:29pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Betje (18 MAY 2003 8:11pm)
That's right, he didn't. If he USES someone else's article to support his own views, he should at the very least READ the article.
I've got the article and I've read it at least a dozen times. You should at least read my comments accurately before you make critical comments!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 18 MAY 2003 at 9:32pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (18 MAY 2003 8:46pm)
But I still don't think Secrets of the Luxor is in a class with games like Neverhood or Riddle of Master Lu and I wouldn't recommend anyone pay much for it.
Since Secrets of the Luxor is somewhat of a collector's item, they'll likely have to pay a fair amount for it if they ever want to play it.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 18 MAY 2003 at 9:41pm |
TinkerSpace Cadet
Posts : 136
Joined: 16 MAY 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By sennebec (18 MAY 2003 7:57pm)
hey tink...
no, i haven't played "spud"...
and considering it's dungeon of shame reputation, i'm not planning to anytime soon
Ahhhhh...Mabey I'll hold off on the Spud thing then. Thanks
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| 18 MAY 2003 at 11:07pm |
adventuredogGuild Master
Posts : 3255
Joined: 14 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Thanks Sir Dave, Ksandra, Betje, and senne for listing the ones you think are best. Gives me a good place to start.
Still adventuring after all these years!
Patiently awaiting The Last Crown: Haunting of Hallowed Isle, and Bracken Tor...
... and Asylum if it's not tooooo scary...
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| 18 MAY 2003 at 11:19pm |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | hey little dog...
if you can find "the neverhood"... go for it !
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| 18 MAY 2003 at 11:35pm |
adventuredogGuild Master
Posts : 3255
Joined: 14 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By sennebec (18 MAY 2003 11:18pm)
hey little dog...
if you can find "the neverhood"... go for it !
I will senne! It's got 3 votes (so has Feeble Files and The Quivering)
Still adventuring after all these years!
Patiently awaiting The Last Crown: Haunting of Hallowed Isle, and Bracken Tor...
... and Asylum if it's not tooooo scary...
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| 19 MAY 2003 at 10:55am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By SirDave (18 MAY 2003 9:25pm)
My dear Betje,
Yeah, I love you too.
how you do go on!
Thanks! But in future let's cut out the polite preliminaries and get down to business straightaway.
First of all, if you re-read my comment the category of games I was referring to when I said they are in a category of games that were never played for a reason [...] or some of this category of games weren't very good in the first place, I wasn't referring to the 10 games Randy referred to but the overall category of games that were (almost) never played. It stands to reason that some games might be in that category because they weren't very good. It's more likely that the 10 best games in that category would not be as likely to be bad games. Right?
There's a list with the ten best games that (almost) no-one has played. The author calls every single game on that list a gem and praises every single game on that list in the minireviews. That's the gist of the article, as reflected by the title. Letter and spirit.
Along comes someone who says that game A should not be on ANY sort of "best list". This poster responds to both the letter and the spirit of the article.
Enter Sir Dave, who ignores the spirit, the gist of the article, and uses the WORDS, the letter of the title to support his own views. And wraps his interpretation of the title in the authors views. That's twisting words.
And secondly, I wasn't quoting Randy in the first place, these were my comments, so how could I be twisting his words.
Heh. It's usually much easier to twist words when you're NOT quoting, haven't you noticed...
But you're quite right of course: you weren't doing the quoting, that was me. To show you what you were doing. I failed miserably of course.
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| 19 MAY 2003 at 3:04pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Betje (19 MAY 2003 10:55am)
Enter Sir Dave, who ignores the spirit, the gist of the article, and uses the WORDS, the letter of the title to support his own views. And wraps his interpretation of the title in the authors views. That's twisting words.
You can try to squirm out of it all you want, but the fact is you're the one who misunderstood and misquoted me which is self-evident since you've changed from saying 'You're twisting his words' to 'That's twisting words' whatever the heck that means since, again, I was making my own observations.
Betje, the fact is that for some reason only known to yourself your objectivity goes into the dumper when it comes to my posts.
I failed miserably of course.
As usual.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 19 MAY 2003 at 3:35pm |
| Deleted User | Mods please change the title of this thread to "Mortal Kombat MXLVIII:SirDave versus Betje". Calm down!
Maybe the best one to judge what Randy meant when he wrote this article is Randy. Since neither of you are Randy the chances are you will be wrong.
In any case, this argument is confusing, hard to follow, and stupid- besides being irrelevant if you like Secrets of the Luxor.
No offense.
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| 19 MAY 2003 at 4:04pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By SirDave (19 MAY 2003 3:04pm)
You can try to squirm out of it all you want, but the fact is you're the one who misunderstood and misquoted me which is self-evident since you've changed from saying 'You're twisting his words' to 'That's twisting words' whatever the heck that means since, again, I was making my own observations.
HUH?!?
I wasn't squirming, I was explaining.
I'm not misquoting, I quoted you correctly.
If you don't like my "that's twisting words", feel free to change it back to "that's twisting his words" because as far as I'm concerned (and I am concerned because they are MY OWN words) there's not the slightest difference in this context. Letter and spirit, you know...
And yes, of course they were your own observations, I never said they weren't. I'm beginning to wonder if you've understood a word I said.
Betje, the fact is that for some reason only known to yourself your objectivity goes into the dumper when it comes to my posts.
Heh. Wrong again.
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| 19 MAY 2003 at 4:05pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Fickfack-
Certainly no offense to me. But just to make it abundantly clear, and in all fairness to Randy, if one reads my comments referring to the subject of his article, they are my opinions alone. For some reason, a particular poster chose to respond to my comments with what is a particularly negative (read personal) response.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 19 MAY 2003 at 4:09pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Fickfack (19 MAY 2003 3:35pm)
Maybe the best one to judge what Randy meant when he wrote this article is Randy. Since neither of you are Randy the chances are you will be wrong.
Nonsense. When I read the words: "Every single game is a gem", I don't need to ask the author what he meant.
No offense.
None taken.
Betje
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| 19 MAY 2003 at 4:13pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By SirDave (19 MAY 2003 4:05pm)
For some reason, a particular poster chose to respond to my comments with what is a particularly negative (read personal) response.
A particular poster? Whoever could you be referring to?
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| 19 MAY 2003 at 5:34pm |
| Deleted User | Hi SirDave, replying to the first thread, you are some collctor there. Those are old games right? It's hard to find it in the stores here where I live unless I buy it in E-Bay. I only have Pilgrim(still haven't played it yet) and I saw Dinotopia. I never also did got the chance to read what it's about. ( I only read what Betje wrote).
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| 20 MAY 2003 at 12:19am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Sarah (19 MAY 2003 5:33pm)
Hi SirDave, replying to the first thread, you are some collctor there. Those are old games right? It's hard to find it in the stores here where I live unless I buy it in E-Bay. I only have Pilgrim(still haven't played it yet) and I saw Dinotopia. I never also did got the chance to read what it's about. ( I only read what Betje wrote).
Hi Sarah:
Yup, I definitely got the collector bug- originally, I had no intention of collecting all these games, but I enjoyed the Myst and Gabriel Knight series so much that I decided I'd like to have access to most or all of the games of that period and so it started....
It's unfortunate that this thread took some of the turns it did because the real reason I started it was to remind people of Randy's article which was actually one of the things that motivated me to collect and play the games he mentions- something I'm very appreciative about.
Dinotopia was put out by Turner Interactive (an offshoot of (Ted) Turner Entertainment in 1995. It really is an underrated game and is one of the few adventure games that the whole family (especially kids) can enjoy though the kids will likely need help with some of the puzzles. You have all sorts of interaction with dinosaurs etc. Dinotopia, in particular, is one game that a lot of money was spent on in its development, but tanked at the 'box office' for reasons no one seems to know!
Dinotopia is particularly hard to find and it and most of the other 9 games are fairly hard to find, but if you keep checking Ebay they'll eventually come up for sale. Probably, the hardest to find (and most expensive) besides Dinotopia are Secrets of the Luxor, Pilgrim, Sherlock Holmes Case of the Rose Tattoo, and Neverhood.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 20 MAY 2003 at 10:30am |
| Deleted User |
It really is an underrated game and is one of the few adventure games that the whole family (especially kids) can enjoy though the kids will likely need help with some of the puzzles.
Sir Dave, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression (from your first post in this thread) that you hadn't played the game yet.
Sarah, in my very personal and not very humble opinion (as I said, I couldn't bring myself to finish it), Dinotopia is not "underrated" at all. Maybe kids love it, but I have never heard an adult express anything but disappointment. I bought my copy cheap on Dutch ebay a few years ago and I have lent it to several people. inotopia may be one of those typically American games, I don't know. It may be on one "best list" and it's a rare collector's item allright. But the JA reviewer gave it a C rating and I quote:
"Overall, Dinotopia, with its emphasis on exploration, easy puzzles, simple interface, and generally laid-back atmosphere, is most suitable for the young novice gamer, who has little or no experience with adventures. Veteran gamers, and kids who have already played the likes of Ripper or Phantasmagoria, may find this one too simple, and a bit dull."
IMNVHO the game also looks ancient, at any rate much older than it really is (1995).
Betje
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| 20 MAY 2003 at 4:03pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | [size=13]Ding, ding, ding: FULL DISCLOSURE ALERT:Sirdave has only played the first 1/8 of Dinotopia. All comments made previously and presently based mostly on reviews and Randy's article.[size=13]Ding, ding, ding! End of Full Disclosure Alert.
Quote from Randy's article: 'Dinotopia is a solid, nonviolent adventure game that could have influenced a generation of gamers to gravitate to other products in the genre'
From Quandry review: 'Though it is essentially a children's game, Dinotopia is a good title for everyone to join in and play. It's a little patchy in that a lot of help is provided for some specific puzzles though generally following the story line is left solely up to the resources of the player. Whilst this may well leave some children wondering just what to do next at various stages of play it also makes Dinotopia an even more likely candidate as a game for all the family.'
The gist of the reviews seems to be that 'hardcore' gamers will be disappointed in Dinotopia, but it has the potential to be a good introduction to adventure gaming for children/family.
Originally Posted By Betje (20 MAY 2003 10:30am)
Dinotopia may be one of those typically American games, I don't know.
In which case, forget everything I said- we all know about those 'American games'!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 20 MAY 2003 at 6:54pm |
| Deleted User |
In which case, forget everything I said- we all know about those 'American games'!
Oh come now! Really! That was NOT a value judgement.
If I had known that you (or anybody else) would take it that way, I wouldn't have said it. But that never occurred to me.
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| 20 MAY 2003 at 8:07pm |
lakerzPrivate Detective
Posts : 654
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | So, you only have 135 games SirDave?!? You can't stop there! j/k
Haven't played Dinotopia so can't comment on it. I have heard adults say they liked the game, and I've heard other adults say it was a waste of time. Randy should do a follow up article on underrated games that no one has played because there is a whole lot more out there that people would enjoy playing if only they knew about them.
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas...
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| 20 MAY 2003 at 8:37pm |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Betje (20 MAY 2003 10:30am)
Dinotopia may be one of those typically American games...
.... Oh come now! Really! That was NOT a value judgement.
If I had known that you (or anybody else) would take it that way, I wouldn't have said it. But that never occurred to me.
betje, call me sensitive, but as an american, i do wonder what you meant by that statement ???
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| 20 MAY 2003 at 9:34pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By lakerz (20 MAY 2003 8:07pm)
So, you only have 135 games SirDave?!? You can't stop there! j/k
Do you have any idea how much space 135 games in the original (mostly big) boxes occupies? I pretty much have to bring this collecting thing to a halt or my wife will have some, let us say,....issues! They're sure darn perty though.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 20 MAY 2003 at 11:00pm |
| Deleted User | Sennebec, I simply meant that the fantasy world of Dinotopia (books, films, games, etcetera) is typically American, not universal like most fairy tales. That DOES make a difference. In the US every child knows the story of the Wizard of Oz, or so I’m told. Here you will have a hard time finding an adult who knows what you’re talking about. Also, if you are already familiar with the world of Dinotopia, you will probably enjoy the game more. Romancing the Throne was my very first adventure game and I I’m sure that I loved the Tierra remake much more than gamers who had never heard of Daventry.
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| 21 MAY 2003 at 12:04am |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | so you are saying that there are some things that are "typically american", "typically danish" and "typically universal" ....
and the variables change according to geography and culture ???
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