| 25 APR 2003 at 1:29pm |
Bob_the_BuilderJourneyman
Posts : 956
Joined: 25 APR 2003
Status : Online | Yay, someone from Pc Gamer.
Anyway, what do you expect, the guy is A BIKER! God forbid he actually gets into a fist fight once in a while. Genres get mixed once in a while, that's how gaming evolves. LucasArts has been in the business for over 20 years, they know what they're doing.
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
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| 25 APR 2003 at 3:32pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Yeah he was a biker in the first one too... and there's a big difference between 'once in a while' and the main goal of the game.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 25 APR 2003 at 3:39pm |
| Deleted User | Dimi, in the main are you angry that this change of direction restricts you from continuing a story that you won't be able to play as you don't like action games?
I think that's the whole point of all this. It's true though... it's odd for a sequel to stray from it's roots, and FT2 does look like it's doing that. It even appears to have FIFA style rings underneath it's characters, and the biking section looks more akin in that one shot to the aging Megadrive title Road Rash (sequel to that, please, EA - and snappy) than a top-class Lucasarts title.
In fact, I'd go far to pre-judge it as being rather poorly modelled. I'll reserve judgement for the game itself as an action title until the reviews come flooding in, or I try it myself.
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| 25 APR 2003 at 4:11pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Chuck, stop agreeing with me! You're only turning more people against me!
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| 25 APR 2003 at 7:48pm |
Bob_the_BuilderJourneyman
Posts : 956
Joined: 25 APR 2003
Status : Online | Yeah the Fifa rings do bother me but if that's a one time thing then I won't mind. Full Throttle had action though, remember that area where you had to beat up the guys with different weapons?
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
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| 25 APR 2003 at 9:19pm |
copycatSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 293
Joined: 24 OCT 2002
Status : Online | FT1 had one action area. It looks as if FT2 will consist of almost nothing but action areas.
And I too am disappointed the way the game is forming I will not be persuaded to buy it because I won't like the way the game is. Too bad, I really wanted to see how Ben got on.
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| 25 APR 2003 at 9:52pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By copycat (25 APR 2003 9:19pm)
FT1 had one action area.
Two. There was the bike fighting on the Old Mine Road and then the destruction derby and burning man sequence.
I forgot my sig.
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| 25 APR 2003 at 10:36pm |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By PCG_Chuck (25 APR 2003 6:32am)
Sorry guys, a true adventure game is a text adventure. Those new fangled ones where you click around the screen like Myst are way too action-ey. Why'd they even have to put graphics in adventure games anyway? My imagination and a text parser were all I needed back on my Atari 400.
what the heck...
let's just get rid of movies, tv's and any kind of monitor and stick to text...
the written word...
as in books... jeeze
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| 26 APR 2003 at 1:27am |
Bob_the_BuilderJourneyman
Posts : 956
Joined: 25 APR 2003
Status : Online | I think that LucasArts just picked out all the action scenes since they wanted to catch the attention of people who never played the 1st game. Seriously, what's more eye catching, Ben staring at a puzzle, or having Ben beat the crap out of someone
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
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| 26 APR 2003 at 2:28am |
adventuredogGuild Master
Posts : 3255
Joined: 14 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Ben staring at an intriguing puzzle holding an interesting inventory item!
Still adventuring after all these years!
Patiently awaiting The Last Crown: Haunting of Hallowed Isle, and Bracken Tor...
... and Asylum if it's not tooooo scary...
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| 26 APR 2003 at 7:52am |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Bob_the_Builder (26 APR 2003 1:26am)
Seriously, what's more eye catching, Ben staring at a puzzle, or having Ben beat the crap out of someone
It depends on who you are targeting with your promotion strategy. If you are targetting your marketing to 12 y.o. boys who usually buy games like Splinter Cell and Grand Theft Auto, then in that case Ben beating the crap out of someone is the more eye catching screenshot. (especially when you clearly see that it is not taken from a cutscene but from an in-game scene). But in that case if this is their target grour expect the gameplay to be similar. *
When you want to target your game to people who buy adventures then Ben staring at a puzzle or maybe a screenshot from a cutscene, or maybe Ben talking to someone would be much more eye catching.
But we're not talking only about the screenshot here. How many adventures have you heard before with 30 weapons and 40 levels (and jujigatagame don't say Outcast, it's only you and PCGchuck and a couple of more people in this forum that consider this game an adventure).
I don't see why do you complain that we complain. You happen to enjoy other genres as well, so it's logical that you don't get annoyed by what's been heard. But can you put yourself to the shoes of the most people here who like adventures more than any other genre, and they've seen most of their old famous series turn into garbage? Should these people just shut up, because your idea of game evolution does not equal theirs?
And don't forget we are in an adventure-oriented site. What would the Doom fans say if they saw pictures of Doom3 which would show that it had a point and click interface, no weapons and just the character solving some puzzles? So guess what we've got the right to do exactly the same thing, no matter how much bullshit the PC-gamer et al reporters are willing to throw at our face cause we are 'dull adventure gamers'.
* I don't mean that all people who play action are 11 y.o. boys or that they are stupid but the fact is that the largest portion of the people who play these games are teenage boys.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 26 APR 2003 at 3:41pm |
| Deleted User | First of all:
Everyone calm down!
The original Full Throttle had action elements and without these it would not be the same game. Having said that, I don't want to see Full Throttle 2 be an action game. I'm not going to buy FT2 after seeing these screenshots.
But what do you expect from LucasArts after their last few games? The old LucasArts is gone folks- we're not going to see any new non-action adventure games until there's a major change over there.
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| 26 APR 2003 at 4:30pm |
PCG_ChuckIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 37
Joined: 19 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Um, Dimi...far be it from me to introduce logic to your stream of vitriol, but I never expressed any opinion about Outcast. Nor do I think it's relevent. There've been numerous types of adventure games over the years, starting with text adventures. If the game is a good one, then does it matter what specific sub-genre it falls into?
Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (26 APR 2003 7:51am)
If you are targetting your marketing to 12 y.o. boys who usually buy games like Splinter Cell and Grand Theft Auto, then in that case Ben beating the crap out of someone is the more eye catching screenshot.
Two problems here: Your attempt to lump Splinter Cell and Grand Theft Auto 3 (?) into the kid game market is simply wrong. Splinter Cell is a teen-rated game and GTA3 is Mature. Neither is marketed to 12 year olds and, in fact, stores are reminded not to sell either game to pre-teens.
Secondly, Randy has deemed GTA3 an adventure game. If you don't believe me, check out his list of Adventure Games that Sell in his August 2002 State of Adventure Gaming. GTA3 is at the top of the list.
Those nitpicks aside, I will say that I was disappointed to hear that Full Throttle 2 would be a 3D action/adventure. Not because it's not "pure" enough, but because most of those action/adventure translations turn out to be pretty bland. However, I haven't played it yet, nor have I seen it running, so maybe it'll surprise me.
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| 26 APR 2003 at 5:05pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By PCG_Chuck (26 APR 2003 4:30pm)
Um, Dimi...far be it from me to introduce logic to your stream of vitriol, but I never expressed any opinion about Outcast. Nor do I think it's relevent. There've been numerous types of adventure games over the years, starting with text adventures. If the game is a good one, then does it matter what specific sub-genre it falls into?
First of all if you do not like my stream of vitriol you'd better start replying with more serious posts and stop treating adventure gamers like some ancient dinosaurs who are out of place and time and do not know what they say (check your earlier sarcastic post about text adventures). If you get more serious towards us, I will get more serious towards you, otherwise I have loads of vitriol, venom, acid (you call it what you want) to stream.
Secondly, Randy has deemed GTA3 an adventure game.
Randy and I are co-operating with each other and I respect him and his opinions but this does not mean that we share the same opinions on everything.
However, Randy did not complain because I (or other so called purists) didn't like how FT2 is going to turn. Jujigatagame did, and he brought as an example Outcast, hence the birth of the discussion around that game. Actually I don't think it's relevant to the discussion of FT2 either.
As far as age is concerned, I'm not going to speak about the US, cause I don't know what's happening over there, but in Europe however I know that in most countries there is usually no control over the age of someone who purchases a game.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 26 APR 2003 at 5:36pm |
Bob_the_BuilderJourneyman
Posts : 956
Joined: 25 APR 2003
Status : Online | I don't think Chuck was making fun of adventure gamers as being "an ancient race of people" I think he was just making fun of you since you're complaining that Full Throttle is not a pure adventure game. Only liking the purist of adventure games is almost as bad as those kids who only listen to punk rock. Come on, mix it around a little, variation does a lot of good. Where would gaming be if shooters had no puzzles or exploration, sims would only be the building of cities, and adventure games were only puzzles. It would be awfully boring.
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
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| 26 APR 2003 at 5:37pm |
| Deleted User | I think the point is here that as a follow-up, it's not really sufficiently similar in style (from what we can see from the shots) to the original, thus alienates gamers that aren't adept at action titles.
It looks more like kiddy-fun than anything else. We should also differentiate between such games and something like Splinter Cell, which actually requires a good degree of thinking in order to progress. It's not what I'd call an action title, although it contains action the emphasis is playing it cool and remaining unseen.
GTA3 relies mainly on responses rather than thinking, and despite it's rating woild appeal to the mid-teenage market. We've got ratings here in the UK too, and substantial fines for those who sell them to kids. Whether or not another European country doesn't do it is another matter entirely, the point is the games are designed primarily to fit into a target audience and those countries that do use them stick to them like glue.
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| 26 APR 2003 at 5:51pm |
Bob_the_BuilderJourneyman
Posts : 956
Joined: 25 APR 2003
Status : Online | I'll admit, I'm disappointed with FT 2 to a certain degree, but I'm sure that people can bear with a few combat scenes. Just because there's some action, it doesn't mean that it's crap. To be honest, I think they should have ended the story will Ben riding into the sunset and just create a new franchise. I'll still buy the game though, at least LucasArts is still trying to keep the artwork and attitude of the first game. I think we'll need to wait until e3, when they show game footage and more than a few screenshots.
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
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| 26 APR 2003 at 6:20pm |
| Deleted User | Bob, the point is whilst you or I are able to put up with action titles, other people aren't. And because of the strange perception that people don't like or play adventures, Lucasarts seem to have taken steps to make it more popular. Sure, it may end up being a good game (although those shots are awful) but it doesn't stop it from alienating those who played the original.
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| 26 APR 2003 at 7:14pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Bob_the_Builder (26 APR 2003 5:50pm)
I'll still buy the game though, at least LucasArts is still trying to keep the artwork and attitude of the first game.
Sometimes it appears that we are watching different screenshots and reading different press releases. So out of the screenshots you saw, you really have the opinion that Lucasarts is trying to keep the artwork and attitude of the first one ???
So what would they have to do for you to say that they changed it to sth completely different? Make it 1st person?
Originally Posted By Bob_the_Builder (26 APR 2003 5:36pm)
I don't think Chuck was making fun of adventure gamers as being "an ancient race of people" I think he was just making fun of you since you're complaining that Full Throttle is not a pure adventure game. Only liking the purist of adventure games is almost as bad as those kids who only listen to punk rock. Come on, mix it around a little, variation does a lot of good. Where would gaming be if shooters had no puzzles or exploration, sims would only be the building of cities, and adventure games were only puzzles. It would be awfully boring.
So you say that kids who listen only to punk rock or people who like only one genre are doing the wrong thing. And how's that.... because you don't do it?
Maybe we should bring down all genres as well, and make all games Action/Adventure/Sport/RPG/Strategy so that we are 'in-style', we're cool, and we'll also get more fans from all genres playing the same game....yay...
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 26 APR 2003 at 8:04pm |
Bob_the_BuilderJourneyman
Posts : 956
Joined: 25 APR 2003
Status : Online | Well I mostly meant artwork I guess, I was just look at the concept art and it seemed to look a lot like the 1st full throttle
I'm just trying to say that it doesn't mean Full Throttle 2 will suck if has some action in it. Whatever, I'll stop posting in this thread since I'm mostly rambling on now.
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
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| 26 APR 2003 at 11:29pm |
PCG_ChuckIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 37
Joined: 19 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (26 APR 2003 5:05pm)
First of all if you do not like my stream of vitriol you'd better start replying with more serious posts and stop treating adventure gamers like some ancient dinosaurs who are out of place and time and do not know what they say (check your earlier sarcastic post about text adventures). If you get more serious towards us, I will get more serious towards you, otherwise I have loads of vitriol, venom, acid (you call it what you want) to stream.
No, dimi, I wasn't treating you like an ancient dinosaur, my post on text adventures was to point out how ridiculous it is for Johnny-Come-Latelies to the adventure genre to argue what's 'pure' or not when they don't know their history. I'm not sure when you began playing adventure games, but let's assume for a moment that Myst was your first. To you, Myst is the quintessential adventure game, because it was the first you experienced. What you may not understand is that by the time Myst arrived on the scene, the genre had already undergone a few evolutions.
My post may have been tongue-in-cheek, but there really was a time when I felt that way. My first adventure game with graphics (don't remember the name, but you started out on a beach; might have been from Activision) had still CGA pictures and a text parser at the bottom. It wasn't nearly as intelligent or immersive as an Infocom game, and I literally thought, "Why do we need graphics? What do they add?"
The point is, for a while graphic adventures weren't "real" adventures to me. I quickly got over it, but when I bought my first 486 PC in the early '90s, the first games I bought for it were (no lie) the Lost Treasures of Infocom and King's Quest 6. My laptop still has a couple of text adventures installed on it to this day.
So, no, I'm not accusing you of being an ancient dinosaur. In fact, I probably pre-date you on a lot of this stuff. But don't you think it's a little ridiculous to completely disregard Full Throttle 2 based on a couple of screenshots? Genres evolve, technology evolves, and just because LucasArts didn't make a sequel to your adventure specifications doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a bad game.
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| 27 APR 2003 at 12:02am |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By PCG_Chuck (26 APR 2003 11:29pm)
So, no, I'm not accusing you of being an ancient dinosaur. In fact, I probably pre-date you on a lot of this stuff. But don't you think it's a little ridiculous to completely disregard Full Throttle 2 based on a couple of screenshots? Genres evolve, technology evolves, and just because LucasArts didn't make a sequel to your adventure specifications doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a bad game.
Whether it is going to be a good game or not, depends on what each person likes. I'm not saying that everybody will think FT2 will suck. There are many people out there who like games heavy on action and also some adventure gamers who don't mind.
But I personally, who consider myself a purist, have gotten a clear picture that I'm not going to like this game. I think most 'purists' have gotten that clear picture already. It is quite obvious that the game will be heavy on action.
I know that genres and technology evolve and change. There are however good changes and bad changes. Change does not mean neceserilly better. What Lucasarts is doing with Full Throttle is not evolution of the adventure genre, cause quite simply, as everything indicates this game does not belong to the adventure genre anymore.
There are recent adventures that have shown how the genre should evolve and change. Examples: TLJ and Syberia. More focus on story-telling, dialogues and character development and less tough puzzles of the 'for-scientists-only' kind. And they were still pure adventures.
The difference between an adventure game and an action game (imho), is that the first one puts the focus on story-telling and require you to think your way through, while the second one puts the focus on the action and spectacles and require you to kick your way through.
I'm not somebody who's against change. I was one of the biggest supporters of FMV graphics and point and click interfaces when these two were first implemented, because I considered them suitable for the adventure genre. But I am however against changes that take away the fundamental aspects of an adventure game.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 27 APR 2003 at 9:03am |
| Deleted User | [size=24]Is anyone actually reading my posts?
The problem here is -
1) It's a sequel. It's called Full Throttle 2. Which is a bad idea, as it bears no real resemblance to the first and should really be released with a different, yet related, title. Like "Full Throttle; Fists Of Fury" or something.
2) Calling it Full Throttle 2, more than half a decade since the original, is going to make the kids wonder about what happened to the first. So it probably won't sell as much as BS;TSD which changed it's name to stop that risk.
3) As a sequel, it alienates the original gameplayers who were expecting an adventure, or don't like action titles. So that's even more people who won't play it, or can't through no fault of their own.
4) The screenshots, so far, are really bad with terrible character models, which all appear to have the same pose standing still, and what looks like to be the re-emergence of the SNES famous Mode-7.
Sure, I'll reserve judgement until the game's reviewed a lot or I play a demo. But it really doesn't deserve several pages of The Hot Spot, believe me...
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| 27 APR 2003 at 8:21pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I'm reading your posts, Monkeybone.
There's just not much to argue with. Except by calling it Full Throttle 2 they clearly hope to get adventure gamers to buy it by name recognition. How many adventure gamers would even try it out if it was called something else and appeared to be an action-oriented game?
What is "SNES famous Mode-7" anyway?
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