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| 2 APR 2003 at 11:24pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Expert game reviewer!
I never trust the general opinon, I have never agreed with it.
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| 2 APR 2003 at 11:39pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | I think they both count, but I am more inclined to listen to a professional review than some random schlub.
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| 2 APR 2003 at 11:51pm |
BelindaSchattenjger
Posts : 2093
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | hmm.........and 'who' do you think in your opinion Juji.....is a random schlub? whatever that means..........
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| 2 APR 2003 at 11:55pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I prefer reviews by reviewers who can describe the game and its features well enough that I can decide for myself if I'd enjoy it.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 12:06am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | A professional review is less likely to be reactionary garbage. Case in point: TLJ. I don't know of a single professional review that gave it less than a 6 or 7 out of 10. Now, personally, I think that is way too low for one of the best adventures I have ever played, but at least these scores are somewhat justifyable. Now let's look at the Gamespot reader reviews. There are numerous instances of people giving the game a 2 or a 3, just outright insulting it. This is why I don't like reader reviews. The general public is retarded.
A professional reviewer is more likely to play through a game thoroughly with an open mind and then write about its ups and downs, instead of yelling THIS SUCKS or THIS IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER and slapping a score on it.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 12:15am |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | @jujigatame: That's the best I've read here in a long time! I totally agree!
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| 3 APR 2003 at 12:22am |
BelindaSchattenjger
Posts : 2093
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jujigatame (3 APR 2003 12:06am)
This is why I don't like reader reviews. The general public is retarded.
You saying the 'general public' is retarded? Are we not part of the general public here? Are we all retarded when we give our opinions on a game that we played?
What DO you think of our opinions on games here that have been posted?
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| 3 APR 2003 at 12:44am |
ZandarIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 2
Joined: 1 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jujigatame (3 APR 2003 12:06am)
A professional review is less likely to be reactionary garbage. Case in point: TLJ. I don't know of a single professional review that gave it less than a 6 or 7 out of 10. Now, personally, I think that is way too low for one of the best adventures I have ever played, but at least these scores are somewhat justifyable. Now let's look at the Gamespot reader reviews. There are numerous instances of people giving the game a 2 or a 3, just outright insulting it. This is why I don't like reader reviews. The general public is retarded.
A professional reviewer is more likely to play through a game thoroughly with an open mind and then write about its ups and downs, instead of yelling THIS SUCKS or THIS IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER and slapping a score on it.
He insults the general public and in the last few days has tried to lead an uprising against reviews everywhere. Give us credit for knowing how to read reviews and taking from them what we can and then using our own valuable judgements to purchase our games.
He has become swept away in his own senseless prattle that now he insults the very members of this board that are part of the general public. Reader reviews should be valued as well and not dismissed so easily. These boards were much better when we were talking about adventure games instead of leading crusades against reviewing standards!
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| 3 APR 2003 at 1:00am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Actually, Zandar, I only tried an uprising against this site's reviews, which I think often suffer from grade inflation due to adventure starvation and could use some standardization.
Oh, and the general public is stupid, I must stand by that, and yes we are all part of it. This doesn't mean we're all stupid, or that I'm insulting anyone imparticular. I don't consider anyone on this board to be stupid. However, what I am saying is that public opinion means jack to me, I want to hear an opinion from someone who I know knows what they're talking about, and the general public does not qualify. I have no idea if Reader Reviewer X knows what he's talking about because I don't know him. Chances are he doesn't, and because of this, I am less likely to take his opinion into account.
Just reread my post and wow I am starting to sound like Don King. I used inflation, starvation, and standardization in one sentence. Pretty soon I'll be making up new words.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 10:44am |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | The general public IS stupid, it can be controlled to do just about anything and that is going on right now.
Just look at Germany in the late 30's.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 11:31am |
| Deleted User | I prefer the term "naive", than "retarded" and "stupid". Although I do agree - there's too many sheep as far as the GP goes. I'd rather trust people I know.
Friday - please stop bringing Germany into these conversations, or at least read more about it... there were huge socio-political concerns back then that led to the rise of the Nazi Party. They were blind and naive as to what was going on at the time... I'm not saying what they did was right, no - far from it -, but it pays to looks at the history books before making sweeping statements.
BTW- Juji - that last paragraph was hilarious!
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| 3 APR 2003 at 12:07pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | @monkeybone: Bite me! I know my history better than you think.
I don't think they were any different from ppl of today, the circumstances made them do it.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 12:44pm |
MikeWTIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 34
Joined: 25 MAR 2003
Status : Online | I'll take a mass user vote, such as the ones on Amazon, over a critics review any day. As a reviewer and writer, I know that sometimes I get a game that I just don't care for, but someone else might love. I try to be fair and point out the good parts, but my overall feeling is still going to come thru.
While I personally read both types of reviews, I think user reviews give me a better feeling on whether or not I will like something. Unless, of course, it's a reviewer that I tend to agree with on most things, or it is a specialized site, such as JA.
Michael Butt - Site Editor - www.wickedtoast.com - [url=http://www.wickedtoast.com/staff.php?id=2]*My Thoughts*[/url]
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| 3 APR 2003 at 1:04pm |
| Deleted User | Bite you? Friday, how old are you, anway? What makes you think you can write that? Perhaps you wrote your original post slightly differently as intended, and I misunderstood... but I don't wanna BITE you.
Then you go and agree with me ANYWAY...
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| 3 APR 2003 at 1:50pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By monkeybone (3 APR 2003 1:03pm)
Bite you? Friday, how old are you, anway? What makes you think you can write that?
Yeah, right! Vampires suck!
But "bite me" does make a nice change from "sue me" or "shoot me"
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| 3 APR 2003 at 2:11pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By monkeybone (3 APR 2003 1:03pm)
Bite you? Friday, how old are you, anway?
56
What makes you think you can write that? Perhaps you wrote your original post slightly differently as intended, and I misunderstood... but I don't wanna BITE you.
Damn! No insurance money for me.
Then you go and agree with me ANYWAY... It was what I menth from the beginning. The princips of fascism - it works every time!
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| 3 APR 2003 at 2:28pm |
VectorIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 70
Joined: 28 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jujigatame (3 APR 2003 12:06am)
Now let's look at the Gamespot reader reviews. There are numerous instances of people giving the game a 2 or a 3, just outright insulting it. This is why I don't like reader reviews. The general public is retarded.
A professional reviewer is more likely to play through a game thoroughly with an open mind and then write about its ups and downs, instead of yelling THIS SUCKS or THIS IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER and slapping a score on it.
I prefer player reviews. If you read the reviews of those that give 2's or 3"s most of them haven't finished the game or they had technical problems and couldn't load the game. As a consumer we need to mentally discard the reviews of the few "retards" and base an opinion on other player reviews who really do know what they are talking about.
So called "professional" reviewers can be biased also. Sometimes I find the reviews on this site to be quite rosy, while a site like gamespot has "professional" reviews from people that don't play and don't like AG's.
We may have years, we may have hours, but sooner or later we push up flowers.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 4:41pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Friday the 14:th (3 APR 2003 10:44am)
The general public IS stupid, it can be controlled to do just about anything and that is going on right now.
Just look at Germany in the late 30's.
Just look at...well, you now what I mean!
No, that's not true in every sense. It's correct that stupid opinions or intended bashing of special games/movies/whatever is more likely to be found in the public. For example there are people on IMdB who give a 1 to Lord of the Rings movies. What's that? 1 is the worst mark possible and nobody can give a movie like LotR such a low credit. You might not like the movie, but a 1 is out of question.
The only reason for this to happen is those users out there which wantonly destroy a general grading. This is true for every movie. Some just hate the hype and rank it bottom. If you be honest you will almost never even give a 3 or 4. Sorry for the IMdB example, but it fits best for explanation.
Perhaps people confuse a 1 with the highest grade possible. It's sad when that happens cause it makes a huddle of an otherwise representative grade. But I really think the amount of bashers is higher than the amount of "dummies".
I rely very much on the IMdB database and most of the time it confirms my opinion. Most other review sites have a much worse representative value.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 3 APR 2003 at 5:27pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Elfstone (3 APR 2003 4:40pm)
Just look at...well, you now what I mean!
I know but I decided not to talk about it here anymore. Some ppl seems to get offended by no obvious reasons.
When I grade an HOTU game I give it either 1 or 10 depending on if I want to raise or lower the grade.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 6:43pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Friday the 14:th (3 APR 2003 5:26pm)
When I grade an HOTU game I give it either 1 or 10 depending on if I want to raise or lower the grade.
I hate you! >
See, that's what I'm talking about!
People tend to this and destroy the grading system. Everyone wants to have the maximum effect on the grade which is easiest by giving highest and lowest grade yourself. But it's cheap!
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 3 APR 2003 at 7:28pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | MikeWT:
I agree that a mass user vote is indicative of a game's quality, but we were talking about individual reader reviews, which, taken individually, I do not trust.
rumtilyerdum:
I still don't understand this notion that people have where Gamespot reviewers dislike adventure games and give them poor grades because they are being forced to play them. That is insanity. They routinely give ABOVE AVERAGE grades to adventure games. I've probably quoted these a hundred times, but they gave TLJ a 9.3, Grim Fandango a 9.3, Syberia a 9.1, Myst 3 an 8.7, Omega Stone an 8.0, Shadow of Destiny (which may people panned) a 7.7, and the list goes on. To put this all in perspective, they haven't given a PC game over a 9.3 in at least a year and a half. What more do you want from them?
Elfstone:
The IMDB analogy is a very good one. Many (or even most) people go against the spirit of the system.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 7:48pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Elfstone (3 APR 2003 6:43pm)
I hate you! >
Join the club!
See, that's what I'm talking about!
People tend to this and destroy the grading system. Everyone wants to have the maximum effect on the grade which is easiest by giving highest and lowest grade yourself. But it's cheap!
But of course they will!
If they see that a movie they think deserves 8/10 got 6/10 it'd be much more efficient to rate it 10/10.
Especially since they know everyone else is doing that too.
I think the rating system should be just "thumbs up" or "thumbs down".
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| 3 APR 2003 at 8:10pm |
ConMolSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 396
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | This kind of goes back to the (I think it was Orion (?)'s) thread about doing away with grades. There is definately a reviewers tilt. For some (in my opinion) excellent reviews that talk about game mechanics and describe the game so I can choose if it's 'me', see Bob Mandels review of Chemicus and Post Mortem over at AdrenalineVault. Rael also did a very good descriptive job on Midnight Nowhere. I also like to read Amazon.com user reviews...usually I'm looking for tidbits of information about arcade sequences, or saving slots, or stuff that gives me a feel for the game...not simply 'This is awesome' because thats their opinion.
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| 3 APR 2003 at 8:13pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Of course it's more efficient, but if you don't like the system better not vote than destroying it.
@juji
IMdB is still very representative in most cases.
But I must admit that the success of Fellowship is mainly due to the fact that many rated a 10 because of the hype and because of those reasons you and me stated. Look at their ratings, you will see that most have given 10, but a lot have given 1 as well, but just few have given 2-5. These grades are virtually unused. Myself, I have given just a few 4 or 5 as well and just one 2. It's one of those Leprechaun movies. Baaad. Although some might consider it positively trash.
Fellowship is probably the mainstream movie with the highest percentage of grade 10. Godfather and Shawshank Redemption got only 51 per cent while Fellowship has 57 per cent.
I say mainstream because IMdB rates masses of movies and some of them are not popular but get high ratings of those who've seen them.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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