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| 14 DEC 2012 at 1:02pm |
Len GreenJourneyman
Posts : 862
Joined: 31 JAN 2012
Location: IL
Status : Offline | Probably got the name wrong - it sounded like 'Newton' on TV but maybe 'Newtown' or something like that.
I have a very pretty & sweet great granddaughter living in New Jersey. She is four & a half years old at kindergarten and due to start elementary school shortly (where this tragedy happened)
----------------------------------------------------
The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.
Last edited by Len Green : 14 DEC 2012 4:47pm
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| 14 DEC 2012 at 3:40pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | I wasn't pro--gun control before this, but now even i am convinced. This is just too much.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1
..and this puts it beyond politics, i'm sorry to say, but it does. This is bigger than mere politics.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
Last edited by Traveller : 14 DEC 2012 3:41pm
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| 14 DEC 2012 at 5:58pm |
Len GreenJourneyman
Posts : 862
Joined: 31 JAN 2012
Location: IL
Status : Offline | This psycho-pathological killing and attacking children is not restricted to USA alone !
There are monsters everywhere ! For example :-
Near Oslo in Norway some while ago, a deeply disturbed man (always seems to be males !!) killed 87 innocent young children, and in China recently some crazy man attacked & wounded a couple of dozen very young kids with a knife .... etc !!
----------------------------------------------------
The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.
Last edited by Len Green : 14 DEC 2012 6:13pm
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| 14 DEC 2012 at 6:52pm |
StilerJourneyman
Posts : 1477
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, TN
Status : Offline | I do not get why people think gun control, or outright banning of all guns will stop this , it won't.
Some of the biggest mass killings in schools have been in some of the tightest gun controlled places. Meanwhile you have a country like Switzerland, one of the highest armed populations (in terms of people that own guns) on earth and one of the smallest gun murder rates.
Making something illegal does not stop criminals or people who REALLY want to get a gun from getting them. It m erely creates a black-market for them which in turn keeps guns out of legal law biding citizens hands and not criminals, just like drugs.
People are placing the blame for these kinds of incidents on the tools they used, rather then on the person and what made them do it in the first place.
We need to look more at why these people do what they do, and help stop other people from getting ot that point. No sane person would harm children like this, something had to happen, something was terribly wrong with that man to do this, and all people want to do is scream "Look, he used a gun, we should all give up our guns!" That line of thinking is exactly what many opressive regime's would love, an unarmed populace to control. That's exactly what N. Korea wanted to do when Kim Jong-il had his stroke and they were afraid of the people maybe getting upset/chaos.
Last edited by Stiler : 15 DEC 2012 8:15pm
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| 15 DEC 2012 at 12:22am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | The Americans tried prohibition of alcohol and we all know how effective that was so I wouldn't expect a similar ban on guns to work. Americans have always owned guns but they haven't always had disturbed individuals going on mass killing sprees. So perhaps it is worth examining what has changed in society for this to have become so common and then plan a strategy to fix it.
Meanwhile, far too many parents are in the deepest of grief right now and that made me cry. There must have been a moment of sheer horror for the shooter's parents when they realised what their son intended.
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| 15 DEC 2012 at 1:25am |
StilerJourneyman
Posts : 1477
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, TN
Status : Offline | He killed his own mother at her home. That would lead me to believe he had some very deep mother/parent issues that existed long before this.
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| 15 DEC 2012 at 4:18pm |
Len GreenJourneyman
Posts : 862
Joined: 31 JAN 2012
Location: IL
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Traveller (14 DEC 2012 3:40pm)
I wasn't pro--gun control before this, but now even i am convinced. This is just too much.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1
..and this puts it beyond politics, i'm sorry to say, but it does. This is bigger than mere politics.
I too do not wish to get caught up with the controversy on gun control in USA.
I certainly agree tat it should be a subject above politics However there are many purely sociological &/or ethical problems which are turned into political issues with one political party advocating one course of action or inaction and another party, diametrically the opposite.
I believe the issue has been debated governmentally more than once in America with no decision either way being taken.
I think that Americans are VERY divided on the subject.
Michel Moore's 2002 "Bowling in Columbine" represents the gun control folk with the National Rifle Association taking the completely opposite stance.
Many Americans have a sort of ethos towards weapons. "The right to bear arms" was enshrined as the second amendment to the USA Constitution.
I am, no American historian and whether this originated from the founding of the states forming militia and fighting the British or whether it dated from the era of 'clearing out' the (Red) Indians, or the Wild West lawlessness – I just don't know. I only remember from almost every film in my youth 80 years ago, the good guys were the 'Whites' and the baddies were the Indians – great stress being laid on the fact that the actually SCALPED their victims. And of course the gunslinging cowboys – the hero inevitably being he who draw his six-shooter fastest from its holster --- and so on Incidentally you weren't a 'man' if you didn't smoke !
On the other hand these mini-massacres by mentally disturbed men (never women it seems), which happens so frequently in USA are blamed on the ease which almost anybody can legally acquire a firearm, and in particular a powerful lethal assault gun firing goodness knows how many rounds per minute.
It is a severe controversy that the Americans will have to face and sort out some day IMHO !
----------------------------------------------------
The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.
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| 16 DEC 2012 at 4:59pm |
Len GreenJourneyman
Posts : 862
Joined: 31 JAN 2012
Location: IL
Status : Offline | As if there isn't enough sorrow, grief, and deep anguish, some 'joker' saw fit to perpetrate a another hoax – a phone called bomb scare at Sandy Hook creating panic & a swat team to be called in disturbing the grief stricken mourners.
This one was most certainly NOT a benign 'joke' but a terrible travesty.
There are some REAL nasties in every society everywhere – without standards, ethics, morals, compassion or ANYTHING positive ! !!
----------------------------------------------------
The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.
|
| 16 DEC 2012 at 7:08pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Len Green (15 DEC 2012 4:18pm)
Originally Posted By Traveller (14 DEC 2012 3:40pm)
I wasn't pro--gun control before this, but now even i am convinced. This is just too much.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1
..and this puts it beyond politics, i'm sorry to say, but it does. This is bigger than mere politics.
I too do not wish to get caught up with the controversy on gun control in USA...
So why then go ahead and discuss the subject? Our country is in deep agony over a tragic loss of young life which hopefully, will lead to a more profound dialogue than can be found here. I'm sorry, but all of this type of commentary just seems out of place at this time.
The future ain't what it used to be!
Last edited by SirDave : 16 DEC 2012 7:32pm
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| 17 DEC 2012 at 8:51am |
Bonsai-sanSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 220
Joined: 9 SEP 2007
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (16 DEC 2012 7:08pm)
Originally Posted By Len Green (15 DEC 2012 4:18pm)
Originally Posted By Traveller (14 DEC 2012 3:40pm)
I wasn't pro--gun control before this, but now even i am convinced. This is just too much.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1
..and this puts it beyond politics, i'm sorry to say, but it does. This is bigger than mere politics.
I too do not wish to get caught up with the controversy on gun control in USA...
So why then go ahead and discuss the subject? Our country is in deep agony over a tragic loss of young life which hopefully, will lead to a more profound dialogue than can be found here. I'm sorry, but all of this type of commentary just seems out of place at this time.
Agreed! Most of the harsh anti-gun rhetoric on the Web comes from outside the U.S. Thanks for giving us time to heal
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| 17 DEC 2012 at 12:00pm |
Len GreenJourneyman
Posts : 862
Joined: 31 JAN 2012
Location: IL
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (16 DEC 2012 7:08pm)
Originally Posted By Len Green (15 DEC 2012 4:18pm)
Originally Posted By Traveller (14 DEC 2012 3:40pm)
I wasn't pro--gun control before this, but now even i am convinced. This is just too much.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1
..and this puts it beyond politics, i'm sorry to say, but it does. This is bigger than mere politics.
I too do not wish to get caught up with the controversy on gun control in USA...
So why then go ahead and discuss the subject? Our country is in deep agony over a tragic loss of young life which hopefully, will lead to a more profound dialogue than can be found here. I'm sorry, but all of this type of commentary just seems out of place at this time.
Your opinion may be right about that and certainly it's completely valid. And of course I am not American (although one of my daughter & 5 granddaughter ARE) and so have no right to go on about purely USA affairs !! But I stress again that to me it is NOT a political issue !
But hasn't that gone on REPEATEDLY in American (and other controversies everywhere else in the world?
A horrible tragedy occurs, and people & particularly the media wallow in it for a few days or maybe a week or two and then it ceases to be front page news &/or a subject discussion, and then nothing is done except talk – until it happens again …. and again … and again !
Only the relatives and maybe very close friends of the victims remain with the grief for the whole rest of their lives!
----------------------------------------------------
The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.
|
| 17 DEC 2012 at 1:55pm |
Len GreenJourneyman
Posts : 862
Joined: 31 JAN 2012
Location: IL
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Bonsai-san (17 DEC 2012 8:51am)
Originally Posted By SirDave (16 DEC 2012 7:08pm)
Originally Posted By Len Green (15 DEC 2012 4:18pm)
Originally Posted By Traveller (14 DEC 2012 3:40pm)
I wasn't pro--gun control before this, but now even i am convinced. This is just too much.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1
..and this puts it beyond politics, i'm sorry to say, but it does. This is bigger than mere politics.
I too do not wish to get caught up with the controversy on gun control in USA...
So why then go ahead and discuss the subject? Our country is in deep agony over a tragic loss of young life which hopefully, will lead to a more profound dialogue than can be found here. I'm sorry, but all of this type of commentary just seems out of place at this time.
Agreed! Most of the harsh anti-gun rhetoric on the Web comes from outside the U.S. Thanks for giving us time to heal
I'm sorry but I haven't seen any proof for that contention !!
Due to eyesight problems I get nearly all of my news from the radio & TV – I can't read the newspapers any more even with a magnifying glass (my wife reads me occasional unusual items or opinions). I don't 'subscribe' to Facebook, Twitter, blogs, etc. So you might claim that although I get TONS of local & foreign news & debates and differing opinions, it is limited as being only stuff from radio & several different TV news channels.
I think that 95% of what I have heard on the pros & cons of USA gun control is from exclusively American people and sources - as so it should be !.
If you have evidence & statistics to bolster your opposing claim that MOST of it is foreign & not American I am always open to being educated !!
----------------------------------------------------
The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.
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| 17 DEC 2012 at 3:29pm |
Lady KestrelGuild Master
Posts : 4047
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, NJ
Status : Offline | This article, written by a mother of a mentally ill child, puts a different and poignant perspective on this tragedy.
I am Adam Lanza's Mother
"Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?"
-Rabindranath Tagore
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| 17 DEC 2012 at 4:58pm |
Len GreenJourneyman
Posts : 862
Joined: 31 JAN 2012
Location: IL
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Lady Kestrel (17 DEC 2012 3:29pm)
This article, written by a mother of a mentally ill child, puts a different and poignant perspective on this tragedy.
I am Adam Lanza's Mother
EXTREMELY interesting article and VERY thought provoking !
Many thanks Lady K !!!
----------------------------------------------------
The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.
|
| 17 DEC 2012 at 4:59pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | That was a very moving article Lady K. Our govt has reduced services to the mentally ill, closing the specialist hospital and the sheltered, supervised accommodation halls. Sufferers are now supposedly treated in the community with varying levels of failure and inconvenience to the community. Perhaps it's time for the states to provide secure accommodation free of cost to those in need.
I just feel very strongly that that poor woman's two younger children need to be rescued from a life of terror.
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| 19 DEC 2012 at 1:41am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | I cried for 3 days after this happened, and even had nightmares. I have two children in the same age group as the kids who attended that school, so, i can't help feeling extra bad for those parents, and i've become a bit neurotic as well. My sister also has two young kids in this age range. My sis in the South, and i'm not in the US at the moment, but still..
I'm not for banning guns in the US, (for various reasons not necessary for this discussion) but i am for gun control. Guns are lethal weapons and should be locked away in safe places like hidden safes with combination locks. It just stands to reason, especially in a house that contains children, or gets visited by children, and i feel that there should be legal directives that force people to take responsibility for their weapons and restrict access to them carefully and responsibly.
But in any case, there's enough controversy and mud-slinging going on about this tragic case, so i wasn't going to add fuel to the flames by saying anything until..- well, i was just waiting for, and hoping it wasn't going to happen-- but now it has-- they're now pulling in video games as the scapegoat.
The anti-vid games league always point out that killers like this "was addicted to violent video games" but they forget that so are about 10 million other kids who don't go out and kill people. ..and what about all the killers who DON'T play video games!
It's like saying: he was reading violent comic books, therefore...
How did violent video games make him go out and kill people? The argument apparently goes that the games desensitize us to violence in RL... well, i play them too, and if i am so desensitized, how come i felt literally ill at this news, been crying and traumatized, and keep checking if my kids are ok?
Ugh. Anyway, best we not discuss the Sandy Hook issue itself here, as previous posters have mentioned. I just wanted to rant a bit here about the "video games made them do it" issue, because non-gamers seem to club together on this issue...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
Last edited by Traveller : 19 DEC 2012 5:44am
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| 22 DEC 2012 at 1:46am |
Len GreenJourneyman
Posts : 862
Joined: 31 JAN 2012
Location: IL
Status : Offline | Yesterday, another shootup this time in Pennsylvania and not so 'serious' – although the wanton killing of ANYBODY is extremely serious !!
This time, a woman decorating a small church for Xmas was the victim together followed by 2 men somewhere else.
The male shooter wounded 2 or 3 state troopers before he was fatally shot by them.
----------------------------------------------------
The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.
|
