Originally Posted By karla (3 NOV 2012 10:40pm)

Don't ask me...I just live here...

I'm not asking you, I know the answer. But if you care, you should be asking your government and local authorities. 

I said that as a joke. It's a variation of "Don't ask me, I only work here."

Originally Posted By karla (3 NOV 2012 11:56pm)

I said that as a joke. It's a variation of "Don't ask me, I only work here."

I know. I thought I made it perfectly clear that it was a stupid answer. Apparently not.

Originally Posted By Fien (3 NOV 2012 11:58pm)

Originally Posted By karla (3 NOV 2012 11:56pm)

I said that as a joke. It's a variation of "Don't ask me, I only work here."

 

I know. I thought I made it perfectly clear that it was a stupid answer. Apparently not.

I thought it (Karla's) was a perfectly reasonable response to a stupid comment.

Hey, Davey! Your ignorance is showing again.

Good news about Lady Kestrel! Ana from over at Gameboomers has family members who live about ten miles from Lady K, and asked them to check on her. She passed this along to Draclvr over at Mystery Manor (quoting from his post now):

"LadyK is fine and dandy. Tony and Suzanne spoke to her and she appreciated the well being check. She asked if you could please let them know at Mystery Manor that she is well.

Their house and them are not touched by the storm. They were lucky except for losing power. They are able to cook with a gas stove and they have water. They do not know when power will be restored but they hope soon."

So, definitely a relief to hear she and her family are safe and sound, if still dealing with power issues.

Originally Posted By Fien (4 NOV 2012 2:37pm)

Hey, Davey! Your ignorance is showing again.

Love ya' back Betje!  

It's actually much easier and therefore cheaper to lay power lines underground in sandy undergrounds like polder, then when you've got rocky undergrounds which is far more common in the US

This is such a relief, Andromus! Thanks for passing the info along to us. I've been really, really concerned about LadyK!

That explains why Lady K can't answer our emails.  I bet she's reading by candlelight.  Hope she has a wood fire and isn't doing the full 'camping-out-at-home' scenario.

. 

Originally Posted By tincup2 (3 NOV 2012 3:37am)

power back here in my section of lower Manahattan 4:45am. Didn't mind the candles and flashlights but missed my computer and internet... Im a walker so getting around on foot was no problem. But I had no cell reception [T-Mobile in my neighborhood was bad] and had to hike 20 blocks north just to get a signal. Everyone is pulling together and the spirt of 'we are in this together' abounds in the face of such a calamity. The coastal dwellers took it very hard... heart goes out to all those on Staten Island, and the Brooklyn/Queens barrier islands lacking power, heat, fresh water OR A HOME... and to the Jersey folk swept up in this too...

Glad to hear you're okay, Tincup and that your community is working together toward full recovery. 

It's also a relief to learn that Lady K and her family are doing well... thanks for the timely update Andromus. 

Regarding underground power lines, most of New York City and many other large urban areas in the USA already have them. 

But when regional power stations are knocked-out or heavy flooding occurs, it doesn't matter where the lines are. 

For outlying suburban and rural districts, the problem with replacing old power and phone lines is the sheer geographic size and distances in such a large country. 

The cost of total conversion is prohibitive and the logistics are a nightmare. 

That said, we must begin working on this problem more aggressively - the same way we are tackling the issue of sustainable energy, real estate, transportation, agriculture, forestry, etc. 

In many of those categories, there is already a massive effort underway in the U.S. to make significant improvements through smarter urban-renewal projects, stricter new-building standards, higher gas-mileage requirements, alternate-fuel development, offshore- drilling limits, coastal / wetland preservation, forest replanting, a new regional-agri-business model and a wide range of other green programs in general.   

Cheers, Terry   

Glad to hear she is fine. No electricity really sucks but at least they are okay.

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (4 NOV 2012 4:59pm)
 

Glad to hear you're okay, Tincup and that your community is working together toward full recovery. 

 

It's also a relief to learn that Lady K and her family are doing well... thanks for the timely update Andromus. 

I second that to both of the above.

 

Regarding underground power lines, most of New York City and many other large urban areas in the USA already have them. 

 

But when regional power stations are knocked-out or heavy flooding occurs, it doesn't matter where the lines are. 

 

For outlying suburban and rural districts, the problem with replacing old power and phone lines is the sheer geographic size and distances in such a large country. 

 

The cost of total conversion is prohibitive and the logistics are a nightmare. 

 

That said, we must begin working on this problem more aggressively - the same way we are tackling the issue of sustainable energy, real estate, transportation, agriculture, forestry, etc. 

 

In many of those categories, there is already a massive effort underway in the U.S. to make significant improvements through smarter urban-renewal projects, stricter new-building standards, higher gas-mileage requirements, alternate-fuel development, offshore- drilling limits, coastal / wetland preservation, forest replanting, a new regional-agri-business model and a wide range of other green programs in general.   

 

Cheers, Terry   

Very good assessment Terry, particularly the point about the geographical size of the country in comparison to those allegedly more 'sensible Western nations'.

Comparisons of the infrastructure of one country vs. another can be inaccurate and illusory unless one is comparing apples to apples. The U.S. is so large and the different geographical areas so different, not to mention the variation of age of the infrastructure in the different urban areas that to make a simplistic statement about the entire U.S. indicates an ignorance about the country as a whole. Heaven knows there are areas of this country that need a major upgrade of the infrastructure. On the other hand there are many areas that are particularly modern. I live in an area with total undergrounding of electrical/TV cable lines, wide new streets and new, modern buildings.

Likewise, when it comes to these other 'sensible Western nations' which must mean a number of European nations since Canada is not all that much different from the U.S. when it comes to infrastructure issues and Great Britain was thrown under the bus, I'm sure there are all sorts of variations from bad to good. Maybe there is a lot of undergrounding of electrical lines -I really wouldn't know- but when it comes to things like modern plumbing (just as an example), I was underwhelmed by it compared to 'back home' when I toured Europe.

Ah, plumbing.  Ain't that the rub when you travel?  I notice that Anthony is maintaining a discreet silence about any of his less than perfect encounters. 

Originally Posted By SirDave (4 NOV 2012 3:15pm)

Originally Posted By Fien (4 NOV 2012 2:37pm)

Hey, Davey! Your ignorance is showing again.

 

Love ya' back Betje!  

Like old times...............lol  She's so high strung and itching to start drama............old age maybe?

Thanks Andromus for the news.......been worried about her.

As a historical point I believe the move to undergroud utilities in high density urban areas like NYC was done for reasons of practicality, cable management, and public safety rather than storm protection. The abundance of exposed telephone and power lines dangling just overhead, in front of windows and zig-zagging willy-nilly across streets and intersections became a dangerous and untenable mess - just look at old city pictures.

Below grade installations are more resilient to wind storm damage which is the principal reason why the outer boroughs are taking longer to restore than downtown areas. Floods and tital surges like the 14 foot rise we experienced wreack havoc on every sort of underground installation. There are no easy and obvious solutions but if the frequency of these sorts of storms and tidal forces are in fact on the increase, as they seem to be [for whatever reason], action will ne necessary, and necessity is the mother of invention...

. 

Here in Houston, we have to contend with both threats - severe flooding and severe wind damage from tropical storms. 

We also have a series of fault lines that present problems for underground cabling / piping in certain districts. Plus the greater metroplitan area is spread out far and wide in all directions, making some underground utilities unrealistic. 

Most of the city has underground phone lines and the only above-ground power lines are main arteries that connect to outlying electrical generation plants. 

Like many pipelines for oil and gas, it simply makes more sense to have certain utility conduits above ground to avoid fault-shift and flooding problems while making routine maintenance, upgrades and emergency repairs much easier / faster / cheaper. 

Additionally, there are other infrastructure components that need to be above ground including sateliite dishes and cellphone / radio / broadcast-TV transmission towers.  Same goes for mass transit as a subway system will not work for 90% of the population. Instead, we have to keep most transportation above ground whether we like it or not. 

Fact is, a lot of those things will probably always have to be exposed to potentially dangerous wind, ice and other weather elements, while underground systems will be at risk from flooding, tremors, etc.

Cheers, Terry 

We should be grateful we have electricity delivered in a safe and reliable method - not everyone is that lucky. 

I read an article about Kabul the other week and it said the capital is growing exponentially at an uncontrolled rate that is outstripping the infrastructure.  Mud brick dwelling are being thrown up that have no sewerage or running water never mind power.

Originally Posted By markornikov (4 NOV 2012 3:15pm)

It's actually much easier and therefore cheaper to lay power lines underground in sandy undergrounds like polder, then when you've got rocky undergrounds which is far more common in the US

Polders... what do polders have to do with anything. My guess is that polders account for about one tenth of a percent of Europe.

Rocks... Europe doesn't have rocky undergrounds? Are you quite sure? 

US rocks... yeah, that makes it much, much harder for those poor Americans... must be the reason they have overhead sewer and water pipes. 

In the end it's all about money and priorities. Your polders made me think of New Orleans and Katrina. I recently read an article on the repairs and the flood control system. No extra measures have been taken, the situation is as dangerous as it was before Katrina. Sad. 

Originally Posted By tincup2 (4 NOV 2012 8:30pm)

As a historical point I believe the move to undergroud utilities in high density urban areas like NYC was done for reasons of practicality, cable management, and public safety rather than storm protection. The abundance of exposed telephone and power lines dangling just overhead, in front of windows and zig-zagging willy-nilly across streets and intersections became a dangerous and untenable mess - just look at old city pictures.

 

Below grade installations are more resilient to wind storm damage which is the principal reason why the outer boroughs are taking longer to restore than downtown areas. Floods and tital surges like the 14 foot rise we experienced wreack havoc on every sort of underground installation. There are no easy and obvious solutions but if the frequency of these sorts of storms and tidal forces are in fact on the increase, as they seem to be [for whatever reason], action will ne necessary, and necessity is the mother of invention...

Finally, the voice of reason! 

@Caroline - the picture you poseted is great, and I read the same article too.

As usual college students seemed to have fun during the storm - about the only trick-or-treating I saw was drunken pirates and naughty librarians returning to the Dark Zone after trips up to the Lit Zone for adult beverages... it was pretty funny. Reminded me of my own experiences in a snow-bound Providence for two weeks during the blizzard of '77..

This last week a handfull of local bars stayed open through the whole show offering limited fare but really nice, mello and fun candel lit refuges for the locals...

Yesterday I went across the harbor to visit a friend in Staten Island and drop off some leftover canned goods for the relief effort out there - not much but needed to contribute something. Gasoline shortage seems the most pressing problem for most pople now though.  

Originally Posted By Andromus (4 NOV 2012 3:13pm)

Good news about Lady Kestrel! Ana from over at Gameboomers has family members who live about ten miles from Lady K, and asked them to check on her. She passed this along to Draclvr over at Mystery Manor (quoting from his post now):

 

"LadyK is fine and dandy. Tony and Suzanne spoke to her and she appreciated the well being check. She asked if you could please let them know at Mystery Manor that she is well.

Their house and them are not touched by the storm. They were lucky except for losing power. They are able to cook with a gas stove and they have water. They do not know when power will be restored but they hope soon."

 

 

So, definitely a relief to hear she and her family are safe and sound, if still dealing with power issues.

I've been busy with exams again, but decided to quickly pop over here, and glad to see this!  Thanks Andromus!

Sorry, really not trying to boost post-count here, just short on time..- but just wanted to quickly say glad to hear Tincup is ok as well.

Will come and read threads properly tomorrow. 

Well, we finally got our power back on earlier this afternoon.  It was a long 9 days, but we survived unscathed.  We had boarded up our large north-facing windows, which protected them from all kinds of flying tree branches.  Our neighbors had one of their big oak trees land on their house, but it came down slowly and hit the a bearing wall between the old and new sections, so no damage was done.  Another of their trees had a large upper section split away from the main trunk, and it was hanging over our detached garage for a couple of days, but their top-notch tree removal service did an excellent job taking both trees down.

We were fortunate to have hot running water, our gas stove top for cooking, two indoor-rated propane heaters, and lots of lanterns and flashlights.  I wore lots of layers, read 6 books, and went to bed early every night, but other than being somewhat chilly and having to wash our dishes by hand, our problems were minor compared to those closer to the water.  Several people we know lost the contents of their houses due to flooding and wind damage.  

LadyK!!!!!! I'm so happy you're back!!!!!

We've all been very concerned about you and you family, and hearing from you has, for me, brightened a day that's otherwise been quite dark. I'm so glad you're okay!

I'm going to stop all of this gushing now and give someone else a chance. Welcome back!!!