Originally Posted By CrisGer (19 JUN 2012 12:18pm)

 

the Byzantine empire which was the successor state to the actual Roman Empire fought a long long and in the end sadly unsuccessful battle against the arab pirates who took over the entire Mediterranean area as rulers of corrupt slave states, they did not create anything themselves, they merely imposed outright slavery on the people they conquered, they would kill most of the men and enslave the women and make them into baby factories to create slave soldiers called Janissaries. Using these legions of trained killers, akin to Hells Angels Bikers of today, they went thru the civilized world of the region like a wildfire, murdering, burning and pillaging whatever was in their path, By default, they became the rulers of the region until today but they turned what was the most fertile and civlized area into a desert that it remains...the Romans had created a vast and successful irrigation system that made Egypt and the entire North African area the breadbasket of the ancient world and the Arabs turned it back iunto a desert. The Byzantines were the last hope and their long 800 year battle with the Arab pirates managed to save Western Civlization but without them it would have been lost. Sadly modern events are dominated by the remnants of these ancient wars and the legacy of the Arab conquest is the sad and violent world we have today. The Byzantines would turn over in their graves to hear that they got along well with their neighbors....the main battles were with the Persian Empire and then the rising Gang Leaders of the Arab Caliphates....again remember, they 'created" their supposely high culture by stealing wholesale and by emplying their slaves as artisans, and enslaved workers to bulid their despotic word in which a tiny minoirty kept everyone else in chains. Not at all the way the Byzantines themselves lived and hoped to live. They too struggled with corruption and had many civil wars sadly but they kept alive the light of civilization and were pillaged and invaded three times by the supposedly Christian Crusades that were supposed to liberabe the holy land. The main reason that there has been so much competition for the area of the Holy land is that Mohammad stole the ideas and fundamental principles of Christianity including the sites and the Holly areas for his own invented relgion very simliar to Mormonism, and they have used that cult of a relgion to dominate the areas they have conquered since.

Wait, that clashes quite a bit with what I've learnt. At the time there was a strong Arabic kingdom in Egypt, one that the Byzantine empire had very good relations with, and they also had alright relations with the holders of Jerusalem (relationships that were strained by the fact that both kingdoms held claims on the same land around the north eastern Mediterranean sea) It was the Turks that, at that time, caused the Byzantine issues, but they were no friends of the established Arabic kingdoms either (they were not only taking land from the Byzantines, but also from Armenia). While The Byzantine Empire & Syria had had many clashes in the past, often trading land, they were not actually at war during the time of the first crusade.
Also, in regards to turning women into "baby making machines", the established Muslim kingdoms did at the time have a far more civilized view of women than the Christian kingdoms, and this was actually a view that many crusaders brought home with them. Before the crusades, women were generally relegated to being "eyecandy" and had no real rights to speak of. It was after the crusaders came into contact with the Muslim kingdoms that women got a spot in the courts of western Europe, and the whole concept of paying respect to the woman of the house came in. The whole concept of "courtly love" was inspired by Arabic culture.

 "In regards to turning women into "baby making machines", the established Muslim kingdoms did at the time have a far more civilized view of women than the Christian kingdoms, and this was actually a view that many crusaders brought home with them. Before the crusades, women were generally relegated to being "eyecandy" and had no real rights to speak of. It was after the crusaders came into contact with the Muslim kingdoms that women got a spot in the courts of western Europe, and the whole concept of paying respect to the woman of the house came in. The whole concept of "courtly love" was inspired by Arabic culture".

Would you say that is the same today, Fnord