Legend of Grimrock countdown timer:
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Legend+of+Grimrock+worldwide+release&day=11&month=04&year=2012&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=262  

Pre-ordered direct from the developers. Less than 24 hours to go .

For someone who never really got into these games, is there more to it then what you see in the videos?

I mean ti's a grid-based dungeon thing, but is it just killing things and completeing puzzles? Is there loot to find? Characters to meet that wont' kill you? A storyline?

Because the whole grid-based combat isn't that appealing ot me (looks a bit cheap really).

Well, we obviously can't know until we've played it, but if it stays true to its Dungeon Master inspiration, and the current crop of available reviews seem to indicate so, non-hostile NPC encounters and story will be minimal at best. Loot will exist of course, though I think the focus will be on new weapons and armour to be infrequently dropped/hard to find but feel like substantial upgrades, instead of endless +1/-1 variations of the same stuff.

Or maybe they'll surprise us, and the latter half of the 13 dungeon floors will be a social hub with a byzantine conspiracy plot worthy of Deus Ex, and the reviews are deliberately keeping it a surprise. We'll know soon enough (9 hours to go!).

Part of the appeal is the unforgiving difficulty. The reviews I've read so far point to a brutal difficulty level. Like the old games such as Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder, there was no resting to heal up, potions were rare and you had to find food, and your torches ran down. Monsters were tough and if a member of your party died that was usually endgame. In the early game, that can happen with one hit by a monster. The feeling of survival is very different from modern fantasy RPGs where you're much more powerful and feel little threat. I think it's an experience you can only get by playing it yourself, not watching videos.

I just realized how much I sound like a vacuum salesman for LoG just then

One thing that surprised me when I first played games like Eye of the Beholder (which was quite recently) was how tactical they were. Movement was actually very important in combat, due to how the game handles cooldown time & flanking, and judging by what the devs have said about it, it sounds like they have worked on improving it even further, by giving you further reasons to flank the enemies (which are not psychic, they can't see whats going on behind them). Another interesting thing about these games is how they often reward you for using the environment against the enemy. 

Mainly it is the puzzle solving & unforgiving but rewarding combat that is the main draw. Loot is there, and it feels rewarding, but it is not like Diablo, where one of the main draws is the loot. The devs have said that there won't be any vendors, and the social aspect will be kept at a minimum. It is supposed to have a decent story though. 

Oh my, I can absolutely see why the reviewers loved this one. At its heart it is an old school dungeon crawler, along the line of Eye of the Beholder or Dungeon master, but it has a lot of nice little touches. One thing that I really liked was that you automatically pick up ammo by walking over it (if it was something that you had previously used), so the tedium of having to pick up your throwing weapons every time you use them is gone. The puzzles thus far have been clever but not very hard (I'm only on level 2 thus far). And the spell system works really well and adds a lot to the feel of the game. If the game continues like this, I think this will be a very strong contender for "game of the year". Now back to Grimrock!

*edit*

It is 22:16 here now, and I've been playing non stop since last post, not even noticing that it was getting late. One thing that has really impressed me is the games balance. All of my 4 characters feels very equal in strength (2 warriors using different weapons, a rogue using throwing weapons and a mage). Also, the game really does reward you for using the environment against the enemy. 

This game has actually managed to suck me in more than Skyrim did. 

*edit 2*
That's it, I'm cutting back on tonights sleep (I don't have anything important to do tomorrow anyway) in order to play this game.  

Fnord did you create your own party? I was going to and then realized I wouldn't have made it much different from the pre-made party anyway. I think I'll run through with this party and if I run into trouble later on do a restart.

So far it's absolutely great. I love the feeling of desparation and the need to conserve every scrap of food, having to use anything and everything as a weapon in order to survive. It's such a change from roaming around dungeon like a god killing everything with one click.

I made a minotaur warrior, a lizardman thief, a human mage and an insectoid mage. I chose the hard difficulty setting, but with automap enabled. Found the 1st secret, with good equipment for the thief and a very cthulhu-like statue inside. The very first snails gave me lots of trouble, since my mages still can't cast anything. Had to restart, made better use of hit and run tactics, and I'm progressing nicely. Those tree things give me lots of trouble, though. I love the feeling of desperate survival, it's as it should be when the party is low-level, ill-equiped and thrown in a hostile environment. Managing to turn them into dungeon-conquering killing machines will feel like an actual accomplicement, if it ever happens that is.

Well if your party has difficulty beating the snails, then you're in trouble later on

I haven't had too much combat trouble with the preset party, but i'm only on normal difficulty. Tactics are very important i'm finding, your movement can decide whether you win or lose. There's much more food to go round than I thought there would be, and sleeping doesn't seem to deplete food at all which seems odd to me.

Originally Posted By Mr Innocent. (12 APR 2012 2:22am)

I made a minotaur warrior, a lizardman thief, a human mage and an insectoid mage. I chose the hard difficulty setting, but with automap enabled. Found the 1st secret, with good equipment for the thief and a very cthulhu-like statue inside. The very first snails gave me lots of trouble, since my mages still can't cast anything. Had to restart, made better use of hit and run tactics, and I'm progressing nicely. Those tree things give me lots of trouble, though. I love the feeling of desperate survival, it's as it should be when the party is low-level, ill-equiped and thrown in a hostile environment. Managing to turn them into dungeon-conquering killing machines will feel like an actual accomplicement, if it ever happens that is.

Oooh, I think I've just been sold on this game. I really like the sound of those units.  Now to get hold of the game and find the time to play it.  After I get rid of my current HOMM 6 obsession, that is...

How large is the Grimrock download?

Originally Posted By walsh (12 APR 2012 3:08am)

Well if your party has difficulty beating the snails, then you're in trouble later on

I'm counting on two mages being overpowered once they learn a couple of offensive spells. If not... restart time!

Originally Posted By Traveller (12 APR 2012 3:50am)

How large is the Grimrock download?

461MB, the one you can get direct from the developers (they actually use the Humble Bundle infrastructure for delivery). I imagine the GOG version is about the same.

Originally Posted By walsh (11 APR 2012 9:03pm)

Fnord did you create your own party? I was going to and then realized I wouldn't have made it much different from the pre-made party anyway. I think I'll run through with this party and if I run into trouble later on do a restart.

 

So far it's absolutely great. I love the feeling of desparation and the need to conserve every scrap of food, having to use anything and everything as a weapon in order to survive. It's such a change from roaming around dungeon like a god killing everything with one click.

Yep, I wanted one of each race represented in my party. My current setup is:
Human Warrior

Minotaur warrior

Lizardman rogue

Insectoid Mage

A rather predictable party, playing to the strengths of each race, or well so I though when i first thought out the party in my mind, but when using throwing weapons, strength is the determining factor for damage, so I should probably have gone with a minotaur rogue and a lizardman warrior instead. Also, insectoids have a nice trait that gives them bonus armour, which would make them good front line fighters, even though their base stats seem to make them more magic-oriented. Giving different races traits that makes up for their stats in such a way was a nice touch, it prevents no-brainer builds.

I'm really surprised by how even in strength my party is. My mage is capable of dealing damage to groups of enemies, but my warriors are dealing more damage per hit, and my rogue can do bonus damage if attacking enemies from behind, which works quite nicely with its ranged attacks.

And it is indeed a very nice change from the regular CRPG fare. Even with its movement limitations, I'm actually finding that the system in this game encourages movement more than almost any other CRPG on the market. Enemies are just too dangerous for you to stand right in front of, trading blows. 

*edit*
Some people have reported that their GPUs are running hot when playing Grimrock. Enable Vsync if this happens.  

Originally Posted By Mr Innocent. (12 APR 2012 4:15am)

Originally Posted By walsh (12 APR 2012 3:08am)

Well if your party has difficulty beating the snails, then you're in trouble later on

 

I'm counting on two mages being overpowered once they learn a couple of offensive spells. If not... restart time!

 

Originally Posted By Traveller (12 APR 2012 3:50am)

How large is the Grimrock download?

 

461MB, the one you can get direct from the developers (they actually use the Humble Bundle infrastructure for delivery). I imagine the GOG version is about the same.

 

 

Ok, well, then I guess I don't have an excuse not to get this game.. Will be buying it shortly, thanks for the info.

Originally Posted By Mr Innocent. (12 APR 2012 4:15am)

Originally Posted By walsh (12 APR 2012 3:08am)

Well if your party has difficulty beating the snails, then you're in trouble later on

 

I'm counting on two mages being overpowered once they learn a couple of offensive spells. If not... restart time!

 

Two mages is actually a good plan. I was surprised how much damage I could do with my fire mage, much more than my rogue next to him who couldn't do much damage throwing rocks. Downside is they're weaker defensively, though I'm finding the frontline gets most of the damage and if one of those die it's restore time anyway.

Originally Posted By walsh (12 APR 2012 7:49am)

Originally Posted By Mr Innocent. (12 APR 2012 4:15am)

Originally Posted By walsh (12 APR 2012 3:08am)

Well if your party has difficulty beating the snails, then you're in trouble later on

 

I'm counting on two mages being overpowered once they learn a couple of offensive spells. If not... restart time!

 

 

Two mages is actually a good plan. I was surprised how much damage I could do with my fire mage, much more than my rogue next to him who couldn't do much damage throwing rocks. Downside is they're weaker defensively, though I'm finding the frontline gets most of the damage and if one of those die it's restore time anyway.

 

You'll still want your back line to have some survivability if the enemies swarm around you. In most cases that won't be an issue, but the game has thrown a few surprises my way thus far. I'm really glad that I picked the extra armour trait for my mage, because his surprisingly high survivability has saved me from reloading a few times. 

I'm thus far quite happy with my 2 Warrior, 1 Rogue, 1 Mage approach. But that Minotaur is a real glutton. 

You do get better throwing weapons later on. Rocks are nice as they don't get embedded into the enemy, so you can just pick them up and throw them again, but now I have a large enough stash of throwing knives & stars that I don't need to throw rocks anymore. 

*edit*

I'm down at level 8, and difficulty is really starting to pick up! Enemies are plentiful and dangerous, and careless movement will usually result in me falling down a pit (where there are other nasties that await me). 

I've only gotten part way through level 1, but I think I'll have to restart. I put almost all my skill points into Spellcraft for my mage at the start, since at rank 5 you get two spells, and it looked like the easiest way to start out with a couple spells. After a little experimentation with the runes I was disappointed to find out the spells were Spoiler AlertLight and Dark. Not exactly what I had hoped for. So now I have a mage who can't cast anything useful in battle yet, and therefore is getting really left out of the XP, earning about half of what my front liners are. Well, fortunately I'm not too far along, I think I'll put some points in Fire next time and see what happens.

Originally Posted By Fnord (12 APR 2012 5:25am)

I'm really surprised by how even in strength my party is. My mage is capable of dealing damage to groups of enemies, but my warriors are dealing more damage per hit, and my rogue can do bonus damage if attacking enemies from behind, which works quite nicely with its ranged attacks.

OK, so Backstab does work with ranged attacks? I wasn't quite sure, that makes the Assassination skills sound a lot more interesting.

Originally Posted By Fnord (12 APR 2012 8:18am)

*edit*

I'm down at level 8, and difficulty is really starting to pick up! Enemies are plentiful and dangerous, and careless movement will usually result in me falling down a pit (where there are other nasties that await me). 

I'm only on level 3 but these spiders are causing me no end of trouble. I always get poisoned and there just isn't enough tarbead in the game to make antivenom potions every time I get stung. I've resorted to waiting until the poison wears off and then resting, which is starting to take a toll on my food supply. A healing spell or cure poison spell would be really nice right now.

Originally Posted By Andromus (12 APR 2012 3:29pm)

I've only gotten part way through level 1, but I think I'll have to restart. I put almost all my skill points into Spellcraft for my mage at the start, since at rank 5 you get two spells, and it looked like the easiest way to start out with a couple spells. After a little experimentation with the runes I was disappointed to find out the spells were Spoiler AlertLight and Dark. Not exactly what I had hoped for. So now I have a mage who can't cast anything useful in battle yet, and therefore is getting really left out of the XP, earning about half of what my front liners are. Well, fortunately I'm not too far along, I think I'll put some points in Fire next time and see what happens.

 

 

What do you mean by Spoiler AlertLight and Dark? I haven't found anything like that. I actually discovered my first spell by accident playing around with the runes, before I knew you had to find scrolls with the rune combination on them.

Originally Posted By walsh (12 APR 2012 7:16pm)

What do you mean by Spoiler AlertLight and Dark? I haven't found anything like that. I actually discovered my first spell by accident playing around with the runes, before I knew you had to find scrolls with the rune combination on them.

 

You need at least 5 points in Spellcraft, first. I don't know if there are any scrolls for them, I haven't gotten very far. I discovered them by trying out different runes. The combinations are Spoiler AlertLife + Balance= Light, and Death + Balance = Darkness.

Originally Posted By Andromus (12 APR 2012 8:39pm)

Originally Posted By walsh (12 APR 2012 7:16pm)

What do you mean by Spoiler AlertLight and Dark? I haven't found anything like that. I actually discovered my first spell by accident playing around with the runes, before I knew you had to find scrolls with the rune combination on them.

 

 

You need at least 5 points in Spellcraft, first. I don't know if there are any scrolls for them, I haven't gotten very far. I discovered them by trying out different runes. The combinations are Spoiler AlertLife + Balance= Light, and Death + Balance = Darkness.

I'd love a light spell so I can get around without torches. I'm level 18 in spellcraft. But how do I know which runes are Spoiler Alert'life' and 'balance'?

The game manual had a list. Also, here:

http://www.gameshampoo.com/magazine/articles/63/legend-of-grimrock-magic-and-runes.html

Brilliant! Can't believe I forgot to look the manual, they're generally so useless in modern games I usually ignore them

Thanks

Glad I could help! I know what you mean about newer manuals; they're often pathetic. Legend of Grimrock's manual wasn't quite as bad as most these days, but neither was it as detailed as I would have expected from an old school style game.

At least the game has a proper tooltip, which a lot of older games lacked. 

*edit* I just found the second "respawning food" room. Unlike the first, which contained rather simple creatures, this one does not. In fact, the creatures in this room are so dangerous that facing two at once usually means death.

Originally Posted By Fnord (13 APR 2012 5:19am)

At least the game has a proper tooltip, which a lot of older games lacked. 

 

Yeah I've been using that a lot.

I'll tell you one thing about Legend of Grimrock, I'd be in deep trouble if the creatures could move diagonally!