I've seen London, I've seen France.

I can see your underpants.

Love you all. Hope to see your underpants soon.

Originally Posted By Mark (25 MAR 2012 1:16am)

 

I've seen London, I've seen France.

 

I can see your underpants.

 

Love you all. Hope to see your underpants soon.

 too.   Long time no see, Mark!  Glad to see you're still alive and mumbling!

Originally Posted By Len Green (24 MAR 2012 5:52pm)

Originally Posted By Traveller (24 MAR 2012 1:47pm)

Originally Posted By Fnord (24 MAR 2012 8:32am)

 

Don't forget Larian (the people who made Divinity), they are working on at least one new game right now

  They are?  Oh wonderful!!

I don't know why I thought they'd disappeared... maybe because nobody here seems to share my enthusiasm for Div 2, and I haven't been to The Watch in ages and ages.

We should really update our: "What's on the horizon" thread in Other games.

 

 

Originally Posted By Fnord (24 MAR 2012 8:32am)

 

There is also another sub-genre of CRPGs, known as SRPGs, or Strategy roleplaying games. These are almost always tactical in nature, similar to say Battle Isle or Panzer General, but have persistent characters that level up and get better with time, and in most cases these individual characters have names and personalities of their own. Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy Tactics are probably the most famous ones, and Japanese SRPGs are usually quite clear about what genre they belong to. When we move to the western market, things tends to be a bit more confusing. Is Jagged Alliance an SRPG? It has persistent characters that level up and get betters with time. Each character has a personality of his/her own and a fare amount of dialogue, so I would say yes. Is Chaos Gate an SRPG? It has persistent characters who level up and get better with time, but in this game none of the characters have a personality of their own, just a name, so I would lean towards no (on the other hand, many characters in Final Fantasy tactics don't have a personality either, just a few of the key characters actually have any dialogue. On the other hand, the characters in Wizardry 1 and Final Fantasy 1 are totally devoid of personality, so are they really CRPGs?). 

 

 

 

Actually there are really tons of games in this genre, and you're right, it's sometimes hard to draw a distinct line between genres, especially when it comes to hybrid games with RPG (as in having persistent characters who level up) elements.  You could even place some of the campaigns of the later HOMM games in this category, for instance.

 

 

@ Loobiloo:

PS, It's nice to see you around and posting again, Loobiloo!  I really love your new avatar, btw.

 

 

I am very sorry. I 'accepted' your previous post where you pointed out that the info regarding RPG's was requested by people who do not visit "Other Games" and hence it was legit to continue with posts on that subject which was clearly NOT :Adventure Games"
However as I feared this thread should not be hijacked into the RPG genre - any more than it could be for example turned into a Forum dealing also with First Person Shooters and their many variations or strategy games or whatever.

Hijacking is considered acceptable here but NOT hijacking into a forum dealing with a different genre entirely WHICH HAS CONTINUED and  is continuing after your earlier post.
After all, there are still plenty of people who come to the "Adventure" forum who do not wish to be diverted into other genres - if it were to continue some might be totally bored, and leave.

If you wish to inform non-RPG players about that genre, the easiest thing to do is to post all that info onto the "Other Games" Forum with A SIMPLE LINK TO IT FROM THIS FORUM !!!

 

 

Len, I might be nuts, but the last time I looked, you didn't start this topic, so why not start your own topic, and therein post whatever you please?  As far as I can see, the topic starter himself expressed curiosity regarding other genres of games; and their revelance to adventure games and the popularity of adventure games, is relevant to the main topic of this thread.  In fact, I do not see you jumping on people who are posting personal chit-chat totally unrelated to adventure games in this thread... - from hence the discrimiation? 

In addition, your constant (off-topic) admonitions themselves are distracting from the topic at hand that others might be interested in discussing.

Originally Posted By Len Green (23 MAR 2012 12:13pm)

al

"Children taller than you"

NICE - Every one of my gransons is 'miles than me (not tha'm particularly tall) !

Sorry to hear about your father - sounds as though you were/are very cut-up !

 

Excuse vision related typos !

  

 

  This post does not relate to adventure games, or even to gaming at all.  Will you please be so kind as to stick to the topic at hand.  Thank you.

***Caroline***

"All threads are conversations and should be allowed to develop naturally.   One should resist the temptation to clobber others over the head with the rule book "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Asolutely *NO* "CLOBBERING" (over the head or anywhere else !!), rule book, extraneous blabber.
Straightforward opinions :-
***** "ADVENTURE GAMES DISCUSSION" FORUM... for adventure game players.
*****  The complexities of RPG's including examples of games that A.G.-gamers-only have never played or even heard of, together with other genres... for the specifically designed "OTHER GAMES" FORUM.

******  No need for deep logic here... simple common sense would seem to be all that's necessary.
******  N.B..
To reiterate :-
Easy enough to inform 'pure' A.G. players of as much detail on RPG's (and other genres) with simple links rather than lots of posts.

******  But there's no need to get wound up or hot under the collar about the issue.  Just continue as you think best - no big deal !!!

Originally Posted By Len Green (24 MAR 2012 5:52pm)

 

 

I am very sorry. I 'accepted' your previous post where you pointed out that the info regarding RPG's was requested by people who do not visit "Other Games" and hence it was legit to continue with posts on that subject which was clearly NOT :Adventure Games"
However as I feared this thread should not be hijacked into the RPG genre - any more than it could be for example turned into a Forum dealing also with First Person Shooters and their many variations or strategy games or whatever.

Hijacking is considered acceptable here but NOT hijacking into a forum dealing with a different genre entirely WHICH HAS CONTINUED and  is continuing after your earlier post.
After all, there are still plenty of people who come to the "Adventure" forum who do not wish to be diverted into other genres - if it were to continue some might be totally bored, and leave.

If you wish to inform non-RPG players about that genre, the easiest thing to do is to post all that info onto the "Other Games" Forum with A SIMPLE LINK TO IT FROM THIS FORUM !!!

 

 

By its very nature this thread were going to cross genre boundaries, and while what I said might not have been relevant to adventure games, I do think that it was relevant to this thread. Viewing adventure games in a vacuum, without taking into consideration what other genres does and mention parallels between them will in the end only hurt adventure games. No genre can exist without taking others into consideration, and CRPGs are a strong competitor right now, therefore if you want to understand why adventure games are (relatively) less popular now than 15 years ago, you need an understanding of what has been going on in the CRPG genre. 

There was a question about the different sub-genres, which was relevant to this thread, and I thought it was important to clarify that there is in fact a 3rd.

The way forward for adventure games is probably to look at how CRPGs handles storytelling and choices. We will probably see more CRPG elements sneak into our adventure games, to the point where genres might get quite blurred. That is not to say that there is no room for classic point & click games, but in order to attract new/different people norm in the genre might have to change a bit.

In regards to HoMM, you quite often find those games classified as both CRPGs and Strategy games in digital distribution sites. I would say that they lean more towards the strategy side of things than the CRPG side.

Originally Posted By Traveller (24 MAR 2012 4:48am)

Oh, boy, let me stop because I'm talking your head off, and you probably need specifics rather than examples, such as gameplay, stylistic and other more specific differences between JRPG's vs WRPG's which is quite a large  subject, and I need to take a rest from writing this now. 

No that was great! Never had it explained to me as clearly. RPGs have always fascinated me dispite having virtually no interest in actually playing. I own a fair number and have twiddled around a bit so I'm able to take your gloss and fill in the gaps. The brief description of company dynamics is all news to me, but given so many references to those involved, it all makes more sense.

Ultima Underworld - Stygian Abbyss. That's one I routinly fire up to see if I can play more than an hour...

Originally Posted By CB (24 MAR 2012 8:46pm)

I agree Caroline, frankly I believe the original post was fairly open-ended as to what types of discussion would ensue.

Yes CB, I was hoping for a general discussion when I started the thread - a coffee shop rather than a sweat shop so to speak. My worry was there might be something intrinsic to JA slowing things down but from the replies so far it seems that a general malaise afflicting the genre is at the root of the problem. No option but to soldier on... 

Originally Posted By tincup2 (25 MAR 2012 8:57am)

 

 

No that was great! Never had it explained to me as clearly. RPGs have always fascinated me dispite having virtually no interest in actually playing. I own a fair number and have twiddled around a bit so I'm able to take your gloss and fill in the gaps. The brief description of company dynamics is all news to me, but given so many references to those involved, it all makes more sense.

 

Ultima Underworld - Stygian Abbyss. That's one I routinly fire up to see if I can play more than an hour...

 

 

Ultima Underworld is not the most user friendly of CRPGs out there. I like it, though I've never finished it.

What adventure games really need is a new champion. CRPGs were dying during the late 90's, but along came Black Isle and Bioware (Fallout & Baldur's Gate respectively), and revitalized a "dead" genre. Grand strategy also lost a lot of ground during this perioid, but Paradox managed to save that sub-genre during the early 2000's. Adventure games lost its champions when Lucas Arts and Sierra left the field. We might see a revitilization of the genre with Tim Shafer's recent kickstarter project, if the game turns out to be good. 

It seems to be quite busy on this 'Quiet around here....' thread!

Originally Posted By loobiloo (25 MAR 2012 9:44am)

 

That party emoticon has bugged me for quite a while now. The red one in the middle just looks so familiar.  And now I have finally been able to figure out where I've seen it before. It looks almost identical to the main character in the old gameboy game Kwirk.

http://pics.mobygames.com/images/covers/large/1169316874-00.jpg

I've never played Kwirk but I see the resemblance -  looks like the main character got a new job with emicons!

I had forgotten about Kwirk, but the first thing that came to mind when I saw that little red guy was the old 7-Up mascot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Spot

.... moonlighting for 7-Up after shaving head/growing hair or wearing a rug!

Originally Posted By Fnord (25 MAR 2012 9:35am)

Ultima Underworld is not the most user friendly of CRPGs out there. I like it, though I've never finished it.

It's got to be one of the first 1st-person games though and that's appealing to me. The UI is clunky and I've never really felt comfortable with it. I just like what it's trying so hard to do. In the same way I'm interested in System Shock 1, and exeprience the same basic issue.

Originally Posted By loobiloo (25 MAR 2012 9:44am)

It seems to be quite busy on this 'Quiet around here....' thread!

hahah yes...

Originally Posted By Fien (23 MAR 2012 10:00pm)

Originally Posted By Val (23 MAR 2012 8:51am)

Most of my family is doing great. Kids growing like weeds and have been bigger than me for a couple years now.

 

Gee, I never knew you had kids! Last time I read your posts you were with Aya.

 

 

My kids are from a previous marriage. Who is this? I don't recognize "Fien" as  a user name.

Originally Posted By Helen (24 MAR 2012 10:02am)

Originally Posted By Traveller (24 MAR 2012 7:11am)

Originally Posted By tincup2 (22 MAR 2012 7:04pm)

Originally Posted By Caroline (21 MAR 2012 10:45pm)

Seriously?   

 

Remember I've only been on the forum since last March - 1 year now, so I have very little perspective. I've visited JA+ for the game previews/reviews 10+ however, so I *do* notice the overall decline in AG activity, but I was curious about the forum banter. A year ago one could spend quite a while perusing unread threads. Now it can be days between new posts. There seems to be more activity in the RPG section, though not being a devote, I don't benefit much from that.

 

In the days of the politics and religion forum here on JA, and while Randy was still around doing and posting tons of reviews and articles,  the site  was positively cooking!   ( Around pre-2007) Then people got ill, the P&R forum was closed down... and... the place got emptier and emptier.. 

 

 

 That particular forum caused alot of bad blood I think for some of the members that were regulars and now dont post at all.

I rarely participated in it but read it quite often as it could be very intertaining.

I couldnt help myself.

Most of the contributors did try and just have healthy debates and wanted to share thier opinions but that can almost never work out when it comes to politics and religion, sad to say.

 I do miss some of those posters.

 

 Hi Val, I have wondered where you have been and good to hear your family is doing well. Hope to see you around often.

Yep, the old P&R forum was a pain in the beep but it certainly was lively.

Hi Helen! Very glad you are still around too!

Originally Posted By Andromus (25 MAR 2012 11:15am)

I had forgotten about Kwirk, but the first thing that came to mind when I saw that little red guy was the old 7-Up mascot:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Spot

 

We never had that mascot here, but we did get his games, which were surprisingly good. 

Originally Posted By tincup2 (25 MAR 2012 12:35pm)

Originally Posted By Fnord (25 MAR 2012 9:35am)

Ultima Underworld is not the most user friendly of CRPGs out there. I like it, though I've never finished it.

 

It's got to be one of the first 1st-person games though and that's appealing to me. The UI is clunky and I've never really felt comfortable with it. I just like what it's trying so hard to do. In the same way I'm interested in System Shock 1, and exeprience the same basic issue.

 

 

Arx Fatalis is quite similar to Ultima Underworld (the developers wanted to make an Ultima Underworld 3, and even tried to get the rights from EA to do so), but far more user friendly, so if you want to try something along that line, then Arx Fatalis is really the way to go. 

Originally Posted By Fnord (25 MAR 2012 1:07pm)

Originally Posted By Andromus (25 MAR 2012 11:15am)

I had forgotten about Kwirk, but the first thing that came to mind when I saw that little red guy was the old 7-Up mascot:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Spot

 

 

We never had that mascot here, but we did get his games, which were surprisingly good. 

 

Originally Posted By tincup2 (25 MAR 2012 12:35pm)

Originally Posted By Fnord (25 MAR 2012 9:35am)

Ultima Underworld is not the most user friendly of CRPGs out there. I like it, though I've never finished it.

 

It's got to be one of the first 1st-person games though and that's appealing to me. The UI is clunky and I've never really felt comfortable with it. I just like what it's trying so hard to do. In the same way I'm interested in System Shock 1, and exeprience the same basic issue.

 

 

 

Arx Fatalis is quite similar to Ultima Underworld (the developers wanted to make an Ultima Underworld 3, and even tried to get the rights from EA to do so), but far more user friendly, so if you want to try something along that line, then Arx Fatalis is really the way to go. 

...but don't you think that the "magic signs" system in Arx might be offputtingly hard?  Will your system play Oblivion, Tincip?  If not, I almost hesitate to suggest Morrowind, because combat is quite hard in it, but then you can also simply play a lot of it while avoiding combat.

Originally Posted By Traveller (25 MAR 2012 1:29pm)

 

...but don't you think that the "magic signs" system in Arx might be offputtingly hard?  Will your system play Oblivion, Tincip?  If not, I almost hesitate to suggest Morrowind, because combat is quite hard in it, but then you can also simply play a lot of it while avoiding combat.

 

You can "store" up to 3 spells, by holding down the sneak key while inputting them, so you don't need to frantically make magic signs in the middle of combat. I did not realize that until quite late though, and got quite good at drawing the symbols needed for fireball while beign attacked by some of the games most powerful enemies. The game sure got easier when I realized how it was supposed to be done. 

Originally Posted By Val (25 MAR 2012 12:59pm)

Originally Posted By Fien (23 MAR 2012 10:00pm)

Originally Posted By Val (23 MAR 2012 8:51am)

Most of my family is doing great. Kids growing like weeds and have been bigger than me for a couple years now.

 

Gee, I never knew you had kids! Last time I read your posts you were with Aya.

 

 

My kids are from a previous marriage. Who is this? I don't recognize "Fien" as  a user name.

 

Val, look on this as an adventure game clue:

If you read Fien's posts carefully, I Bet you will Not be in doubt for Long.

Updating the name of the ("main" ??) Forum to ............

............ "Adventure games & RPGs discussion" might be more appropriate. ??

If it means anything, I'm enjoying the open nature of this thread very much.

Originally Posted By loobiloo (25 MAR 2012 9:44am)

It seems to be quite busy on this 'Quiet around here....' thread!

YES !

Seems quite noisy - plentty of decibels !