Originally Posted By karla (12 MAR 2012 5:17pm)

Notepad can accommodate text size up to 72, so I'd say that a post can be composed using a very large font, then reduced in size prior to posting. This might not even be necessary, though, because I don't think the large size carries over.

Correct.  Notepad doesn't embed any formatting tag into the text, thus no formatting is carried over from it, nor is any formatting preserved when copying to it.  It is a basic text editor rather than a word processor.  I've often found the latter property in particular useful when word processors misbehave while pasting formatted text.  

But God is Love. So if he merely likes Dear Esther, then he's actually damning it with thin praise?

VERY MANY THANKS JKING !!

Am experimenting:-

Writng this in 36 point - going to steo it up to 48 point (where I can see it better !!) for checking, and then simply copying the 48 point and pasting as it is onto the JA Forum return post

Will see what comes out ????

IN CASE THERE ARE ANY WHO SUFFER ANY VISION IMPEDIMENTS - THIS MAY BE A "LIFE-SAVER" (If you didn't know already !).

JKing & Karla - THANK YOU BOTH !

eems that NOTEPAD is indeed the 'answer to a maiden's prayer' - even thogh I'm far from being a maiden

HIya Trav,
Sorry I haven't replied to your post of 2 days ago.  For no apparent reason I got unhitched from the Forums and login didn't work.  Eventually 'Support' found the reason - I was using an ORIGINAL password instead of an updated one !
My bad - although goodness knows WHY I had to login again in the first place.
But as the Bard said "All's well that ............".

I can VERY well understand your not wanting to undertake another walkthru - lt does indeed involve a VERY great deal of time & effort and in addition can be a hell of a chore !
I have a feeling that some people underestimate the hassle involved ! True a superficial walkthrough can be done fairly qickly & easily - and unfortunately some HAVE been done like that (Not those on JA I think !).  Such walkthu's often have an error or three and often do not cover some of the trickiest parts of the game &/or  tell the reader exactly what to do in those places where he/she needs it most. Also the English is sometimes very downmarket !!

But it always takes me a VERY long time since I am pedantic and insist on covering EVERY possibility - I gather that you are similar - a good thing IMHO.
So that's OUT !!!

I'll deal withe the other aspect ("Testing") separately once this has been posted OK !

This thread has strayed way off-topic again.

And yes, I've contributed to it with my Notepad post. I resisted doing so, but the issue was dragging on and I was hoping to conclude it.

That having been said, I respectfully request that anyone wanting to discuss a game other than Dear Esther or have a conversation about other matters either start a new thread or use PMs. Thank you.

Pity the poor soul who chooses JA as a reputable source on which to run a search on Dear Esther.

OK, I see the thread is now up to eight pages in length. I notice on other sites that typically when such an event occurs the admins compose a summary of the major highlights.

Originally Posted By CB (14 MAR 2012 3:32pm)

Pity the poor soul who chooses JA as a reputable source on which to run a search on Dear Esther.

 

OK, I see the thread is now up to eight pages in length. I notice on other sites that typically when such an event occurs the admins compose a summary of the major highlights.

 

This post might shove us over into nine-page territory.  

Would you like to write a summary of the Dear Esther thread, CB? I'm actually serious.

Edit:

I see we're still at eight pages. What a relief.

CB --- I don't remember if you were a member of rhe 'old' JA or not - Karla most certainly was and for a LONG time.

Then, various people (no names - no pack-drill) quite frequently PIRATED threads and were generally even applauded for it even though the continuation had nothng whatsoever to do with the original and the 'new' posts often carried on for ages. Not once was the subject ever mentioned and certainly never censured - the opposite frequently.

I have always saved threads and posts both of mine & others and can refresh your memory if forgotten - I even have complete threads consisting of 9 pages long.

I don't think that diversions from the original subject *in any way* contravenes ANY rules of the NEW Forum.

I may very well be wrong of course and there is something 'illegal' about swerving from the main topic in which case I would be happy to discuss the idduetIf I'm wrong, I can discuss this matter with the administrators or owner and perhaps get a definite clear ruling on this.

Cheers - Len

P.S.

"WHATEVER"

Originally Posted By karla (14 MAR 2012 3:45pm)

 

 

Would you like to write a summary of the Dear Esther thread, CB? I'm actually serious.

 

Edit:

I see we're still at eight pages. What a relief.

Yes I would. However, I think it would be in everyone's best interest if I submitted it to Staff prior to the general public.

I saw a mudcrab the other day. Filthy creatures.

Originally Posted By Len Green (14 MAR 2012 4:26pm)

CB --- I don't remember if you were a member of rhe 'old' JA or not - Karla most certainly was and for a LONG time.

 

Then, various people (no names - no pack-drill) quite frequently PIRATED threads and were generally even applauded for it even though the continuation had nothng whatsoever to do with the original and the 'new' posts often carried on for ages. Not once was the subject ever mentioned and certainly never censured - the opposite frequently.

I have always saved threads and posts both of mine & others and can refresh your memory if forgotten - I even have complete threads consisting of 9 pages long.

 

 

I don't think that diversions from the original subject *in any way* contravenes ANY rules of the NEW Forum.

I may very well be wrong of course and there is something 'illegal' about swerving from the main topic in which case I would be happy to discuss the idduetIf I'm wrong, I can discuss this matter with the administrators or owner and perhaps get a definite clear ruling on this.

Cheers - Len

P.S.

"WHATEVER"

Don't worry Len. I learned who you were five years ago when you attacked me in off-topic.  As a matter of fact I hope you do discuss the matter with the administrators or owner. In this case you just might not get the answer you were expecting.

Trav,
About the testing :-
The timing seems just right - it should start about the beginning of July 2012 and continue till roughly the enfd of the year.
It is not a constant grind - sort of 15 to 30 minutes once every 2 or 3 days. The job is MUCH more interesting than walkthru writing since you would be part of the Development process right from the very beginning through to the very end. You would be the only outside tester and fully credited as such (but no paymrnt - except for a copboxed copy or 2 or 3 if you wanted) when the game is released,

I think that you would be excellent for the task and I think you would enjoy it. But I can't make the decision myself - I can only strongly recommend it and although my voice would probably carry great importance I am not the one to make the decision.

Incidentally, you are also suitable since the person MUST have English as mother tongue (and "good English) and preferably UK English rather than USA.

I think I have said enough. I shall see if I can master the new PM and carry on with that and not openly on the Forums - I haven't tried the new PM mechanism yet !!

CB
Your facts are back to front as I could prove - BUT I REFUSE TO GET INTO AN ARGUMENT ABOT THE MATTER.

In any case - as mentioned by you * Carla - this thread & its ramifications have gone on long enough.

SO I HEREBY PLEDGE NOT TO ADD A SINGLE POST TO THIS THREAD.
As somebody previously mentioned - no point in flogging tje dead horse any more.

If anybody wishes to add ANTHING to this post or thread - GOOD LUCK to them --- I shall not reply at all.

***FINITO ON THE SUBJECT - at least as far as I'm concerned - I cannot account for ANYBODY else !!!***

I became so confused over what the topic of this thread was that I got halfway through The Old Testament Book of Esther before I realized that it wasn't a walkthrough.

karla - here is your summary.

At the time of starting this summary this thread was 8 pages long and comprised 190 posts – not counting this one.

The following is a list of thread contributors and the number of comments each has posted.

Len Green 63: Karla 24: Tincup 16: Mr Lipid 10: Mr Innocent 9: Fnord 9: CB 9: Fien 8: JAStaff3 7: Lady Kestrel 6: Dona 4: Markornikov 4: Walsh 3. Traveller 3: Thaumaturge 3: Andromus 2: SirDave 2: Jenny100 1: Winfrey 1: CrisGer 1: Giants12 1: Jo 1: Jking 1: and now me 1.

The thread was initiated by Len to voice his dissatisfaction with a game called Dear Esther. There then followed a spirited discussion about whether he was justified in his position of claiming that without puzzles it had no right to be called a game. This stance was challenged by various other members who pointed out that not all games are identical and various other members stated their enjoyment or not of this game, even pointing out that an earlier version of the game has been available free for some time.

Some posters took Len’s reappearance on this site as an opportunity to remind him that they hadn’t forgotten his previous behaviour and Len took exception to this – insisting that the new site had effectively wiped the slate if not people’s memories clean and he invoked the Forum Policy regarding trolling. 

A weak attempt was made to discuss what a troll was but eventually, the mods reminded the children they had to play nicely together   and the discussion evolved into a technical debate on what was the proper definition of 3D.  As usual, there were differences of opinion    and nothing was really settled on or resolved.

There was some minor forum housekeeping commentary about text size and post formats which devolved into a lot of posts about poor eyesight and the attendant difficulties with using word processing programs but this issue was resolved with the use of Notepad.

There was some general chitchat and some blatant post count padding by two members (they know who they are)  but there was no general consensus on whether Dear Esther was a game or simply ‘an experience’ or whether such innovation was ultimately good or bad for the adventure game genre.  Just about the only thing everyone agreed on was that it was priced too high.

Basically, the meat of the thread is all there on page 1. Any stranger looking for help making a decision about the wisdom of buying Dear Esther will have enough information to make up their own mind about the game’s attributes. They will also have quite a bit of insight into the emotional tensions that tie this forum community together which is probably why members who previously leave in high dudgeon, vowing never to return, invariably fail in their resolve. 

Originally Posted By Caroline (15 MAR 2012 12:07am)

karla - here is your summary.

 

At the time of starting this summary this thread was 8 pages long and comprised 190 posts – not counting this one.

 

The following is a list of thread contributors and the number of comments each has posted.

Len Green 63: Karla 24: Tincup 16: Mr Lipid 10: Mr Innocent 9: Fnord 9: CB 9: Fien 8: JAStaff3 7: Lady Kestrel 6: Dona 4: Markornikov 4: Walsh 3. Traveller 3: Thaumaturge 3: Andromus 2: SirDave 2: Jenny100 1: Winfrey 1: CrisGer 1: Giants12 1: Jo 1: Jking 1: and now me 1.

 

The thread was initiated by Len to voice his dissatisfaction with a game called Dear Esther. There then followed a spirited discussion about whether he was justified in his position of claiming that without puzzles it had no right to be called a game. This stance was challenged by various other members who pointed out that not all games are identical and various other members stated their enjoyment or not of this game, even pointing out that an earlier version of the game has been available free for some time.

 

Some posters took Len’s reappearance on this site as an opportunity to remind him that they hadn’t forgotten his previous behaviour and Len took exception to this – insisting that the new site had effectively wiped the slate if not people’s memories clean and he invoked the Forum Policy regarding trolling. 

 

 

A weak attempt was made to discuss what a troll was but eventually, the mods reminded the children they had to play nicely together   and the discussion evolved into a technical debate on what was the proper definition of 3D.  As usual, there were differences of opinion    and nothing was really settled on or resolved.

 

There was some minor forum housekeeping commentary about text size and post formats which devolved into a lot of posts about poor eyesight and the attendant difficulties with using word processing programs but this issue was resolved with the use of Notepad.

 

There was some general chitchat and some blatant post count padding by two members (they know who they are)  but there was no general consensus on whether Dear Esther was a game or simply ‘an experience’ or whether such innovation was ultimately good or bad for the adventure game genre.  Just about the only thing everyone agreed on was that it was priced too high.

 

Basically, the meat of the thread is all there on page 1. Any stranger looking for help making a decision about the wisdom of buying Dear Esther will have enough information to make up their own mind about the game’s attributes. They will also have quite a bit of insight into the emotional tensions that tie this forum community together which is probably why members who previously leave in high dudgeon, vowing never to return, invariably fail in their resolve. 

Excellent summary and analysis there, o Goddess of letters!  .   Not only will you make a good literary ctitic, but I think you'd write a neat audit report as well; I like your collation of the figures.

Your identification of sections and minutae is excellent, and your overall conclusions and general conclusions, and even your personal musings as asides, are spot-on.

Well done!     

And thanks for giving me my morning giggle.      That's what I miss about the new JA, you know.  Where did people like Mark and the old crew who always made me laugh, go?

Originally Posted By Len Green (14 MAR 2012 6:41pm)

Trav,
About the testing :-
The timing seems just right - it should start about the beginning of July 2012 and continue till roughly the enfd of the year.
It is not a constant grind - sort of 15 to 30 minutes once every 2 or 3 days. The job is MUCH more interesting than walkthru writing since you would be part of the Development process right from the very beginning through to the very end. You would be the only outside tester and fully credited as such (but no paymrnt - except for a copboxed copy or 2 or 3 if you wanted) when the game is released,

I think that you would be excellent for the task and I think you would enjoy it. But I can't make the decision myself - I can only strongly recommend it and although my voice would probably carry great importance I am not the one to make the decision.

Incidentally, you are also suitable since the person MUST have English as mother tongue (and "good English) and preferably UK English rather than USA.

I think I have said enough. I shall see if I can master the new PM and carry on with that and not openly on the Forums - I haven't tried the new PM mechanism yet !!

Sure Len, thanks. Just press the "send PM" button at the bottom left of this post (More or less underneath the block that contains my name) to initiate the PM process.

Deliberate post padding in this forum?!? I am shocked! Round up the usual suspects!

....a great summary that made for better reading than the actual thing - now that's a good summary...

Just...

Originally Posted By karla (11 MAR 2012 2:42pm)

As a matter of possible interest, the following is from Dear Esther Interview: A Conversation with Robert Briscoe at http://electronicfarmyard.com/games-and-movies/gaming-news/dear-esther-interview-a-conversation-with-robert-briscoe/ . It addresses the "is-it-or-isn't-it-a-game" question...

Some gamers might debate whether Dear Esther is actually a ‘game.’ What would you say to those people and what is the purpose of this clearly experimental and divisive title?

This is something both Dan and I get a lot, “is it a game?” We never set out to do anything other than make a game, we’ve never had any intention to encourage this debate, there’s no doubt in our minds that DE is a game – it’s just different. It was/is a creative venture, but one which differs from the typical FP game. We have no interest in debating whether it is a game, that’s just something which sprang from the community and the debate about whether videogames can be considered art. With DE our sole purpose was to create something different, which was new and creative.

______________________________________________

They are the developers, I would be surprised if they did not see DE as a game. They used a game engine and pushed interactivity boundaries to deliver what they intended to be a great, complex experience. What else could it be? For one thing, gameplay basics are in place, nothing happens without the player and the keyboard. A non-linear story (open to interpretation) is told in a linear setting, although exploration is possible to some extent. What's more, parts of the narrator's text and some objects in the environment change with each playthrough. But in the end I find the question whether it's really a game uninteresting. Reminds me of the equally boring discussion about Myst, and 1st-person versus 3rd-person. The only thing that matters is whether players like the experience. Dear Esther deals with universal human emotions like sadness, loss, feelings of guilt, with death and dying, but of course not everybody is looking for such things in a gameworld. There are lots of fascinating, in-depth analyses and interpretations posted at Steam's DE forum by people who love DE. The discussons about the lack of interactivity and the price are started by disappointed players who didn't like Dear Esther at all, who were expecting an entertaining or dark ghost story.

Metacritic.com

Of the 35 critic reviews, 29 are positive, 4 mixed, 2 negative. Mean score 7.8

Of the 132 user reviews, 91 are positive, 14 mixed, 27 negative. Mean score 7.1

I replayed Dear Esther again yesterday. The best 10 dollars I've spent on a game in a long time.

Originally Posted By Fien (16 MAR 2012 6:30am)

The best 10 dollars I've spent on a game in a long time.

Agreed.