Some people love Dear Esther others hate it. I am not talking about the free mod. The love or the hate are opinions not facts and in a Democratic Society every(and Forum) everybody is entitled to their opinions. I repeat - in the past, and I assume in the future, some games have been criticized  very severely on JA - is that to stop because some folk have opposite opinions?

As I wrote previously - as an FREE experimental 'experience - FINE. But {as a commercial "adventure game" it is not. That others have opposite opinions is good & healthy - I do not criticize them and certainly do not personally insult those who propound them.

SO - personal opinions -0 FINE. Personal mud-slinging NO, it's Trolling !

To the JA Mods :-

I repeat what I wrote previously :

"Dona **** Len Green, you are honestly the most OBNOXIOUS person I have ever come across on the Internet".

Extracts from the JUST ADVENTURE RULES :-

***** "NO TROLLING ---------- trolling encourages personal attacks and as such will not be tolerated. ---------- This includes to members and Just Adventure staff. We will not tolerate members that will harass or insult others in hurtful or in a trolling fashion.

Pleas some very short  simple straightforward answers :-

*  Does Dona's personal invective "harass & insult" ?

** IIs this a universal new JA rule apply to ALL members or only to some ?

*** If it IS trolling, should Dona be reprimanded and told to stop his personal diatribes in future (and preferably to mend fences , to apologize).?

To refresh your memories, the rules for this website are posted at the top of each subforum.  Please familiarize yourselves with them.  Differing opinions make for interesting discussions.  Personal attacks do not.    Don't make me have to lock this thread.

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Thank you JAA-Staff 3 ...

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For confirming the huge difference between decent debating of legitimate opinions (even if differing &/or opposing) on the one hand, and forbidden blatant "harassment & insulting" on the other.

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I hope that this will be the complete end to all the ugly trolling in the future - for the sake of everybody and the JA Forums !

Instead of reprimanding users, the mods might think of actually contributing to the forum by discussing AG's, instead of just playing police and reminding us of the rules.

I'm also starting to miss the old forum, even if i didn't contribute much back then... 

Is this the new JA? In your face? I''m pretty new here but is this what it's all about? I actually like Dear Esther. Not for "deep" gameplay or interactivity, but just becasue I liked it.

Ny previous reply came out a mess despite using WordPad - I don't know why.

So here's a repeat !!

Thank you JA-Staff3.

For confirming the huge difference between decent debating of legitimate opinions (even if differing &/or opposing) on the one hand, and forbidden latent "harassment & insulting" on the other. 

I hope that this will be the complete end to all the ugly trolling in the future - for the sake of everybody and also the JA Forums !

Originally Posted By tincup2 (20 FEB 2012 4:39pm)

Is this the new JA? In your face? I''m pretty new here but is this what it's all about? I actually like Dear Esther. Not for "deep" gameplay or interactivity, but just becasue I liked it.

Don't worry, things will hopefully calm down soon, and incidents like this are for the most part isolated. 

And I have to ask those who enjoyed the game, what were your interpetations of the scribbling on the walls?

Spoiler AlertAt first I thought that they were about escaping from the reality or numbing the pain of loss through different means (in the cabin you see an alcohol molecule on the wall, and then you see some other molecules that I think, though I'm not sure, also are from addictive substances, and there are also pictures of neurons. But then you start seeing electronic schematics scribbled on the walls, and by the end of the cave there are neurons and electronic schematics intertwined

@ Fnord - hopefully so.,.

I've been a volunteer moderator here for 8 years.  Karla and I are the only ones left from the old board and we do what we can to keep things on an even keel with minimum intervention.  Most of what we do is behind the scenes, like getting rid of spammers, moving posts, answering the questions we can, and passing things on to our tech people or the owner when we don't know the answers.  Sometimes I have to make a judgement call and intervene when a member's toes are getting stepped on like I did today.  Name calling isn't acceptable here and never has been.  Except for the old P&R forum, which could get out of hand in the blink of an eye, this has always been a great site for interesting game discussions.  Let's keep it that way.

back on topic, i can recommend Dear Esther to AGers who appreciate subtle atmosphere and a guided experience through a very personal world... If you feel abandoned by AGs, like I do but maybe you don't so look elsewhere, dear Esther is almost a lament, a sad, and sadly short, walk through the kind of spaces that we miss.  

Originally Posted By Fnord (20 FEB 2012 5:04pm)

 

And I have to ask those who enjoyed the game, what were your interpetations of the scribbling on the walls?

Spoiler AlertAt first I thought that they were about escaping from the reality or numbing the pain of loss through different means (in the cabin you see an alcohol molecule on the wall, and then you see some other molecules that I think, though I'm not sure, also are from addictive substances, and there are also pictures of neurons. But then you start seeing electronic schematics scribbled on the walls, and by the end of the cave there are neurons and electronic schematics intertwined

OK, just finished the original mod. Spoiler AlertAdmittedly I'm not clear on every detail, so I may be mistaken about some of this but the narrator mentions something about alcohol (i.e. drunkenness) being a factor in the crash, so that might explain it. Not sure about the schematics, though the narrator is fixated on getting to and/or perhaps being an antenna metaphorically, so that might be a factor. Oh, and the diode symbol seems to double as a directional arrow.

Anyway, I agree with what you said earlier. It's quite interesting for what it is, though I'm not prepared to pay that much for the new version. There's a decent chance I'll pick it up in a Steam sale at some point, though.

With regard to the post from JA-Staff3, three posts above this one. 

I have not always seen eye to eye with him/her (a very great "British understatement". 

However, I don't bear grudges - at least, not to those who bear no grudges against me.  I live by the Judeo-Christian biblical tenet: "Do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you" &/or the reverse "Do NOT do unto others what you would not wish them to do unto you".   (Please don't accuse me of propagating religion !). 

But eight years of voluntary work for JA is something to be GREATLY praised - whether one always agrees or disagrees with regard to your decisions.

Eight years in a person's life is something very much to be praised - especially in these days of ultra materialism where so much is weighed and measured only in terms of cash more than anything else.

So I take my hat off to you JA-Staff3 !!

I had intended to refrain from writing any further description (or criticism). And intend to do just that. 

However a thought occurred to me... I have been accused of "ripping the "game" to pieces" whilst almost all posts here have said that they have enjoyed it to a greater or lesser degree (most however with some proviso).  But I have a feeling that there is little to no basic difference between us.

I may be wrong here (and if so please inform me and I'll correct) but nearly all the supporters have not purchased and played the commercial "game" but have played the FREE MOD only. 

This is EXACTLY what I advocated simply in different words but virtually speaking the identical thing - i.e. I suggested a FREEWARE game (although I should have said 'experience' instead of game !!

The blurb advocating playing the paid-game***whereas I recommended that it was not a game due to its lack of any interaction and its extremely short length.

IMHO "six of one & half a dozen of the other".

*** N.B.

The adventure game site which I think devotes the largest amount of time and space to "Dear Esther" starts the firrst words in its very first post of its ("advertizing") thread,,,  "Dear Esther the new ADVENTURE GAME ------" followed by the word 'game' umpteen times.

Many here have defined it as an experience, an innovation, an experiment, which is MUCH more correct - as I have also maintained - but not an Adventure Game under any common or reasonable definition of the words (which is my main love).

Let me look in my crystal ball.

The mists of time lift and I get a clear look into the future.

Someone (Jupiter is in conjuction with Alpha Centaury, so the exact identity is hidden even from my Sight beyond Sight) replies, pointing out one or more of the several fallacies, fabrications, assumptions and leaps of logic in Len's post. As an example, the fact that it is clear to anyone with basic reading skills that it is the gaming site that calls Dear Esther an adventure game, not the developers/publishers.

The reply is an essay to the contrary, preceded of course by a staunch declaration of no intention to discuss the matter at all. If the contrary can't in fact be reasonably argued, shout accussations of discrimination, grudge-holding and mod bothering  as loudly as needed to distract from the lack of substance.

Someone's (damn Jupiter!) temper flares, and responds in kind.

The reply is just a repeat of the first one, with the added complaint of the other guy continuing a discussion that shouldn't have been continued, since even before the essay, it has been declared concluded.

Mods ban us all.

Originally Posted By markornikov (20 FEB 2012 3:54pm)

Instead of reprimanding users, the mods might think of actually contributing to the forum by discussing AG's, instead of just playing police and reminding us of the rules.

 

I'm also starting to miss the old forum, even if i didn't contribute much back then... 

JA-Staff3 and I, who are the only ones who currently monitor the forums (JAS3 more so than I), do contribute here. JAS3 uses a non-staff ID; I'm the same everywhere.

When it comes to policing the forums, we try to give folks as much leeway as possible. We don't enjoy banning legitimate members (as opposed to spammers), and we'll bend over backwards to avoid doing so.

I mean, we aren't ogres who just sit around all day rubbing our hands together, drooling and cackling as we search for new victims. I think we're actually pretty nice.  

Well I bought the steam version. 10 bucks and at least as pleasant as the couple of beers it would otherwise have purchased. Tonight I will go through it again and follow some of the paths I didn't take the first time. There's a bit of Outcry in this one..

JA-Staff3 uses a non-staff ID...interesting. Could be me.

Just a reminder to everyone, please review the forum guidelines. Here

OMG, that's so funny!!

Originally Posted By CB (21 FEB 2012 6:33pm)

JA-Staff3 uses a non-staff ID...interesting. Could be me.

Could be but probably not.  Do you want a job? 

Originally Posted By CB (21 FEB 2012 6:33pm)
Just a reminder to everyone, please review the forum guidelines. Here

^That's a great little video and much more fun than our cut and dried rules.  Thank you CBStaff!

CBStaff    

Ooooh, you're on staff now, CB? Great!

You can be in charge of banning people. 

"Mr Innocent...

Let me look in my crystal ball.

The mists of time lift and I get a clear look into the future.

Someone (Jupiter is in conjuction with Alpha Centaury, so the exact identity is hidden even from my Sight beyond Sight) replies, pointing out one or more of the several fallacies, fabrications, assumptions and leaps of logic in Len's post. As an example, the fact that it is clear to anyone with basic reading skills that it is the gaming site that calls Dear Esther an adventure game, not the developers/publishers.

The reply is an essay to the contrary, preceded of course by a staunch declaration of no intention to discuss the matter at all. If the contrary can't in fact be reasonably argued, shout accussations of discrimination, grudge-holding and mod bothering  as loudly as needed to distract from the lack of substance.

Someone's (damn Jupiter!) temper flares, and responds in kind.

The reply is just a repeat of the first one, with the added complaint of the other guy continuing a discussion that shouldn't have been continued, since even before the essay, it has been declared concluded.

Mods ban us all.".

TO MR INNOCENT

I see that you insist upon accusing me of all sorts of irregularities ... "People who live in glass houses shouldn' t throw stones" implying that my posts are incorrect, illogical, etc. 

To suggest that my posts are rambling is a REAL joke considering the totally rambling post of yours above.

And again inserting trolling PERSONAL insults is a NO-NO here.

For some reason this does not seem to sink in with one or two members here. 

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Now to your totally fallacious claim that I am in complete error. 

Please get your facts straight before accusing me (or anybody else) of getting their facts wrong - in this case being the core of your personal diatribe.

Take the trouble to access STEAN (Not other sites or publishers or distributors or whoever). 

Dear Esther is...

(A) Listed under "All GAMES - ADVENTURE GAMES - Dear Esther" ........ and ...

(B) Quoting Dear Esther Key Features ...

"An uncompromisingly inventive Game delivered to the highest AAA standards".

PLEASE DO NOT DELIBERATELY CONTINUE TO START UP A PERSONAL FLAME AGAINST ME !

Also...

Thank you.