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| 4 SEP 2011 at 1:58am |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 834
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | hardware assisted virtualization
Curious, what is that? A feature of Win7 needs to run virtual XP that your currrent mobo can't handle? I have not heard the term before, but then again I still run XP..
Check out Newegg I think they may have a better price for W7pro.
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| 4 SEP 2011 at 2:48am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | NewEgg is 249. Amazon is 223. Third party is 219. Amazon products arrive FAST (2-3 days). Others, no.
Here's the link to the HAV tool I used to test my processor/
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/support/configure-bios.aspx
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| 4 SEP 2011 at 3:33pm |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 834
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Thanks for the heads up Halcyon! I needed to enable 'secure virtual' in BIOS to get mine functioning - year old mobo and didn't even know that feature. Like you my plan is to upgrade to W7 at some point if XP Mode works - sorry to hear you need another cpu/mobo combo to go that route.
Did you check your BIOS? The setting I enabled didn't say exactly what MS calls it but had the word virtual so I clicked it. Good luck.
Which leads to the basic quastion - How robust is XP Mode any way? And if you run Win7 64-bit will old 32-bit apps run okay in XP Mode?
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| 4 SEP 2011 at 8:28pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Better do your research on XP Mode. I think you should be fine. However, although XP Mode is a full version of XP, it is not robust enough to play 3D games. So it is for your documents, etc. , which I figure I can open in Google Docs or Open Office anyway, if I have any problems.
I ordered W7 Home Premium. I'm not worried about running XP Mode. My laptop still has XP anyway. My desktop is basically for gaming, surfing, etc.
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| 4 SEP 2011 at 10:06pm |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 834
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Interesting - you are quite right about 3D apps not working in XP Mode. That basically precludes migrating an entire game collection directly to the XP Mode installation to avoid the games reinstall ritual. Now it seems each 3D game needs to be installed/tested in W7 first, and those that do not run must be relegated to a legacy XP box. That's a lot of work for a big collection - I had hoped for a direct migration...
I need to find out if XP game registry entries will transport to XP. I periodically backup game registry entries so if I need to fall back on an older OS backup image I don't need to reinstall the newer games. I was hoping to uise a similar tactic when upgrading to W7 - but the registry structures may be incompatible.
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| 4 SEP 2011 at 10:18pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Reach out to Traveller. She may have further insights, having gone through all of this already.
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 8:43am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | I'm afraid I don't have any good news... well, that depends. When I bought my Win 7, I didn't know I'd need the "Pro" version to get XP mode; but then I was lucky enough to "inherit" a free copy of VMWare, which is not normally freeware. I've found it very useful, I must say, though it's not perfect, it's not quite the same as having a dual-boot system, which I have yet to try.
I have found that MOST games that won't install on Win 7 because of some DRM incompatibilty, will install when you apply a no-CD patch.
The nice thing about VMWare is that you can do older OS's on it as well, and I happened to have a copy of Win 98 handy, and I'm sure I must have Win 2000 somewhere as well.
As for a direct migration: well, I'm not sure that will be possible if you're migrating to a new mobo, but it probably will be if you're just changing OS's.
I went to a completely new rig, and moved my gamesaves over via an external hard drive.
Something that might interest you, is the experience I had with my Oblivion. Having done a brand new install on my new rig, and started up the game to be sure it was working fine, I moved over my old gamesaves, but they kept crashing.
I knew this was to do with some patch or mod that I must have had in my old game but not my new game, but since I had quite a few patches and mods installed, I simply couldn't pinpoint the discrepancy. Luckily I still had my old installed Oblivion on my old hard drive which I had retired for safety's sake due to it's old age.
So I backed up my new install to a different drive, then deleted every single thing in my Oblivion folder, then slotted my old hard drive into my new rig and simply copied the entire installed "Oblivion" folder over into my new now empty Oblivion folder.
(You need to clear out the destination folder first, btw, otherwise Windows will merge them.)
Started up the game, loaded an old save, and viola! She works!
So the sad part is that migrating is going to take a bit of work, depending on your situation; but my advice is to back up your installed games in your "Program files" folder in any case; - just in case...
Interesting - you are quite right about 3D apps not working in XP Mode. That basically precludes migrating an entire game collection directly to the XP Mode installation to avoid the games reinstall ritual. Now it seems each 3D game needs to be installed/tested in W7 first, and those that do not run must be relegated to a legacy XP box. That's a lot of work for a big collection - I had hoped for a direct migration...
Sadly, another little detail regarding this, is that Win 7 and Vista tend to put files in different places (different directories, that is) than XP does. So that's another little problem to keep in mind.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 2:26pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | I'm using the recommended Windows Easy Transfer to back up my files to my external HD.
Here's a good tutorial (skip the Silverlight and get the PDF at the top right)
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/help/upgrading-from-windows-xp-to-windows-7
I'm pretty resigned to loading my main games and playing from scratch on each of them. I'm retiring a number of games that are just loaded on my computer because I like them there.
Although there are sacrifices, I don't want what I had. I want to use all my 4 gigs of RAM and later get 4 more, upgrade to Direct X 11, then buy the best vid card I can to upgrade there, too. I think my Dual Core 2.8 ghz mobo is fine for now.
From what I've read, I don't see where I"ll have much use for XP Mode anyway.
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 3:03pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5587
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | I was lucky enough to "inherit" a free copy of VMWare, which is not normally freeware.
VMware Player is 100% free - it also supports accelerated 3D graphics.
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 3:09pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TAS (5 SEP 2011 2:26pm)
I'm using the recommended Windows Easy Transfer to back up my files to my external HD.
Here's a good tutorial (skip the Silverlight and get the PDF at the top right)
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/help/upgrading-from-windows-xp-to-windows-7
I'm pretty resigned to loading my main games and playing from scratch on each of them. I'm retiring a number of games that are just loaded on my computer because I like them there.
Although there are sacrifices, I don't want what I had. I want to use all my 4 gigs of RAM and later get 4 more, upgrade to Direct X 11, then buy the best vid card I can to upgrade there, too. I think my Dual Core 2.8 ghz mobo is fine for now.
From what I've read, I don't see where I"ll have much use for XP Mode anyway.
I unfortunately seem to have a lot of games that came with the older Starforce that isn't 7 compatible (and boy, did I find out exactly how many once I had 7 installed... : )
There are a few games that need mods/patches to play on modern machines, which won't work once you have applied a "no-CD/no-DVD" patch. So for those I'm finding XP particularly helpful; but also for 1 or 2 games that won't work on a 64-bit OS, since that's the 7 I'm using. Since you want to use more RAM, Halcyon, it sounds like that's what you'll be using as well...
No, don't toss your old gamesaves..- you really don't have to start from scratch; I haven't had to do that with a single game yet.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 3:54pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (5 SEP 2011 3:03pm)
I was lucky enough to "inherit" a free copy of VMWare, which is not normally freeware.
VMware Player is 100% free - it also supports accelerated 3D graphics.
Oh? oes that version do any OS?
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 4:58pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Okay, thanks, Trav. Doesn't sound as bad as I thought. I'm sure I'll have some questions, though, since I always do my research and make sure I know everything... before I ask my dumb questions :
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 5:20pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5587
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By placeholder (5 SEP 2011 3:54pm)
Originally Posted By InlandAZ (5 SEP 2011 3:03pm)
I was lucky enough to "inherit" a free copy of VMWare, which is not normally freeware.
VMware Player is 100% free - it also supports accelerated 3D graphics.
Oh? Does that version do any OS?
VMware Player will run any version of Windows, but 3D Acceleration is only supported under XP and above.
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 9:56pm |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 834
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Similar to Halcyon my main reason for a W7 upgrade is to overcome XP's 4gb ram limit, take advantage of Dx11, and be able to use an SSD boot drive without hassle. But since my current rig is still plenty fast - I built it late last winter - there is no urgent need to upgrade for performance reasons.
After reading your posts I will not bother with XP mode when I upgrade as it's clearly not a "gamer's solution". I have a copy of VMware which I'll play with, but it may not be necessary if I don't canabalize my current rig for the upgrade. Testing, trial and error, seem the expected route as usual.
@Trav - yes I'm very familiar with the install game/delete contents/restore contents from backup trick. It has made re-installation of heavily modded games easy and undaunting. Another trick is run regedit.exe after you've installed a game and export anything the game added to the registry - this way if you need to drop a backed-up game into an OS that it wasn't installed to you can skip the installation process entirely - just copy the game then execute the reg file you made previously. I find it works 80-90% of the time. Some games disperse too much junk during install for this technique to work.
Another trick is right after you install a game, temporarily re-name the game install folder and see it the game will run from the exe in the folder. If it does there is a very good chance the game does not need to be "Windows installed" at all. If you ever need to reinstall the game just copy your backup and you're good to go. I keep a list of games that doen't need re-installation.
One last thing I find very convenient: Install all your games on a separate drive than the OS, and limit the apps that go in Program Files to system related stuff, Word and perhaps a few other productivity apps. This way you can keep the OS drive lean and fast/easy to mirror/restore. My C: is about 12gb [XP, W7 is probably heavier] and only takes about 5-8 minutes to backup image or restore. Because it's fast you tend to make OS backup images often so you won't find yourself stuck with a lot of games that need re-installing. I make a fresh one every month or two or after a game installation frenzy. A lean C: also encourages frequent Defragging which is good too. And, of course, if you hose your OS you don't also hose your game installs..
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 12:49am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By mgonneau (5 SEP 2011 9:55pm)
@Trav - yes I'm very familiar with the install game/delete contents/restore contents from backup trick. It has made re-installation of heavily modded games easy and undaunting.
Just so I understand this clearly...can you explain it to me? I THINK what you are saying is to back up Program Files. Install new OS. Load game of choice. Replace the Program File of game of choice with the backup files. Yes? No?
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 2:32am |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 834
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Yes I think you have it but I'll break it down again:
1. Install OS
2. Install the game in your fresh system - in Program Files or wherever you generally install your games, but preferably using the same path and game folder name as you had originally installed the game [not essential, but if you have problems this may be the cause].
3. Delete all the contents of the freshly installed game, but keep the game folder.
4. Copy all the backup game files to the new folder.
The game is now properly "initialized" by windows [registry, shortcut links etc] but is [hopefully] running and just as you left it with all the tweaks, fixes, mods and enhancements you had added.
Game Saves: Most games save to the game folder so your backup should be fine, but if it's a game that saves to registry [big ugh] you will be out of luck. Or if it saves to Documents & Settings [little ugh] be sure to backup the appropriate folder in D & S before you re-install windows or you'll loose those.
Hope this hasn't confused the situation more lol...
One last thing - as Trav pointed out first try running the backup without re-installing. Just copy your backup to the fresh system, open the game folder and give the game.exe a try. A surprising number of games will start right up without any more work.
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 9:45am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Yes, in my case, for a lot of the reasons that Tincup mentioned, I had more than one hard drive each with a few patrtitions, which makes them easier to handle, smaller units to scan etc.
So you might have to do like so:
1) it's a good idea to have at least 1 seperate partition if you have only one hard drive.
So, if you have a seperate partition or Hddrive, then for a game that does indeed need a brand new install: Do a totally new install of the game on the "other" partition (elsewhere from where you had the original one)
2) Failing the latter,-if you have only one partition on one hard drive, you'd have to rename your original game directory to prevent the game from installing itself right back into that same directory again.
Tincup gives a good breakdown; but like he also mentions, if the game is one of those that needs a new install, it's a good idea to make at least one save in the "new install" of the game first, to see where 7 is putting it, since you might have to place the gamesaves in manually if Windows keeps it in a seperate place like Documents for instance.
(I migrated from XP, which like I mentioned often keeps the gamesaves in a different folder than 7 does.)
Even if the game doesn't need a new install, you might want to make a note of where the gamesaves are kept - if in the game directory, then good; but if in Docs or somewehre, Win 7 might want them in a different place yet again, though it's often possible to "juggle" the paths so that you can kind of "circumvent" Win 7's machinations... Sorry, I bet I'm confusing you now. Ignore the last sentence or 2...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 3:02pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Naa, it's perfectly clear, Trav
Thanks, you two, for all the help. I wouldn't have thought to copy all my Program Files. Probably saved me a lot of heartache.
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 5:42pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | However, to be excruciatingly honest, Halcyon, if you're going to be sticking with 4 Gigs of RAM and the rest of your current hardware, you might find that upgrading to 7 from XP might even make your performance worse, (depending on what you're busy with) and at best only so infinitesimally marginally better that you might not notice an improvement with anything, really...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 5:45pm |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 834
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Cool. Actually that raises another issue - miscellaneous non-game apps in Program Files. After a fresh install they are gone so you'll need to reinstall any you need as required. Fortunately they are usually pretty fast and easy to do [except Word or and other bloated progs], but it's still a good idea to make a list of what you currently have/use/need in there before you do the fresh install. This is also a good time to streamline your Prog Files by not putting junk back in.
If you are in the process of doing a fresh install another handy thing is to backup your Favorites folder so you have a copy of all your internet links etc., saves agro later. And you like your current desktop layout, save the Desktop folder. Both are buried in Documents and Settings, in your "user" folder. After the fresh install just copy both files back in.
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 7:27pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By placeholder (6 SEP 2011 5:42pm)
However, to be excruciatingly honest, Halcyon, if you're going to be sticking with 4 Gigs of RAM and the rest of your current hardware, you might find that upgrading to 7 from XP might even make your performance worse, (depending on what you're busy with) and at best only so infinitesimally marginally better that you might not notice an improvement with anything, really...
I'm not expecting a performance increase, I'm expecting some visual improvement. And I'm going to 8 gig RAM soonish, but 2 is still the recommended requirement for most games.
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 8:28pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Oh, you mean for the Direct-X 11? Yes, maybe it will be with games that are designed for it/support it, but I haven't played any that employ it yet. In fact, my Witcher 2 sadly looked worse because it was designed for DirectX 9, and Win 7 comes with DX 11.
The shadows acquired this weird look as if you were looking at a painting done on canvas.
Ok, I lie. Apparently DA2 supports it, as well as quite a list of other games. (It seems about 23, spanning all genres).
Too bad I don't feel like replaying DA2...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 11:43pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Well, I can't afford a new vid card that supports DX11 anyway. Mine supports DX 10.1, which is better than the 9 I'm running now.
So I have to stick with my card. Instead, I ordered 4 more gig of RAM.
I'm committed to the newer platform as a way to keep on top of things. By January, I'll be able to upgrade further or buy a new rig.
Besides, I love change. I wasn't one of those W98 folks who probably are still using it. I loved it, as I do XP, but I want to be as current as I can. At my age, I can't afford to waste time waiting for something I have no idea what I'm waiting for.
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| 7 SEP 2011 at 2:41am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2350
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | While some people have been unhappy with the transition (I really do sympathize, my dear Traveller), if it's what you want to do, Halcyon, I won't be the one to dissuade you. I'd never look back from Windows 7. It's truly the first version of Windows I've ever been satisfied with. It has its problems, but while I had considered going with Ubuntu when still using Windows XP, there's just no contest now.
Were I master of the world I'd want Windows to do a few things better (like built-in recording of ISO images, for instance, or proper symbolic links), true, but what we have by now really isn't all that bad. Having used a Mac mini for a while now, the grass doesn't even seem any greener on the other side for me. If anything, it looks purple.
I wouldn't expect too much for DirectX 10, though. I've never noticed any of its purported benefits in any game I've played; I'm not even sure what the benefits are supposed to be, really. I do find the system in general more streamlined, though, and I hope you do, too.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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