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| 25 AUG 2011 at 12:27am |
StilerJourneyman
Posts : 1477
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, TN
Status : Offline | The IL-2 game was great about letting you toggle a lot of sim options off if you wanted to, to ease into learning the more advanced things.
Their newest flight game, Cliffs of Dover, also does this. If you don't want an arcade flight game I'd suggest looking into that. It is a die hard flight sim underneath though, so once you get the hang of things you can start turning back on things to ease into it.
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| 25 AUG 2011 at 1:09pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2758
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | Thanks! I'll order IL-2 to begin with, and try it out (it is apparently super cheap, which is a big bonus)
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| 25 AUG 2011 at 6:39pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | There are the best:
IL2 1946 with all the patches...
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/index.php
IL2- Cliffs of Dover with mods found on the forum for it, it is new and being improved
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/index.php
Battle of Britain 2 - with the 2.11 fan patch and 2.11 Multiskin patch
http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=40be05dc1d4dcae55183f48d5527dda0
Rise of Flight WWI amazing sim from Russia, now free to play
http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20836
Combat Flight Simulator 3 -
older and a bit dated but the mods bring it up to one of the best historic flight sims for WWII:
European Theatre Operations ETO)
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?22434-New-ETO-1.0-and-1.2-installation-guide
Mediterranean Air War Mod:
MED mod
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php?7-CFS3-General-Discussion
if you try IL2 the original be sure to get all the community patches...
probably the best and most detailed as far as ground elements and overall immersion is actually an arcade style sim, Heroes Over Europe, most of the flight sims have varying detail on the ground and some problems with the models in flight, as many don't have historic markings for the German planes due to political correctness but that is often corrected by mods. Two of the sims listed above have been literally rescued by community work or are due to forerunners of mod work by the communities, BOB II was an old sim that was taken in hand by the community and almost totally upgraded. Rise of Flight was built on the shoulders of Over Flanders Fields (OFF) a mega mod for CFS3, for WWI, the community project for that is still going and costs 50.00 which is rare for a community project, all the rest are free.
IL2 is the best mega flight sim now, and getting better with patches and upgrades...
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| 30 AUG 2011 at 2:01am |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 832
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Yes all those are solid, though I did find IL-2 Cliffs of Dover very buggy out of the box and left it at that.
I would add the IL-2 Forgotten Battles iteration of the IL-2 series - I keep it and IL-2: [s]1946[/s] Pacific Fighters on my rig.
You might also look at Birds of Prey - looks great and is somewhat less intensive sim-wise so perhaps a bit more 'entry level'.
Rise of Flight is astounding but takes time to master, but probably the sim I'd pick now if I could only have one. It uses a somewhat fussy online verification system but I've gotten used to it.
For jet age I still reach for the oldish but great Mig Alley by Rowan with enhancements by the BDG team. It's set in the Korean War so still essentially close range dogfighting even if you are flying jets, and the game does a great job at that. No complex modern avionics here.
I think I posted a list of my fav's on one of your earlier posts - that list covers sims from the last 20 years or so.
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| 30 AUG 2011 at 4:19am |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | Cliffs of Dover is buggy, they are supposedly working on the bugs but unfortunately the developer and publisher picked steam as the venue and the patches are loaded automatically so there is no way to test them...and i don't use Steam .....i dont support such myopic and un democratic systems....i have no desire to be part of Big Brother's Internet World.....but once I buy things on Steam I move them to their own directories and they work fine. Birds of Prey is indeed interesting, and Heroes over Europe is another with high detail, i was also looking at Pacific Fighters the IL 2 Pacific add on, it has remarkable detail and some of the most realistic carrier landings and take offs I have seen yet, but the scenery is a bit bare....even tho much better than CFS2..those jungles of the Pacific are hard on CGI games.
I havent tried those more modern era sims you mention, for some reason my interest largely lies pre 1945, tho the modern flight sims that are just sims are amazing...esp some of the mega add ons like the new one for the Pacific Northwest that Orbix did that is just amazing..and Sandman's add ons from FSAddon
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| 31 AUG 2011 at 12:12am |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 832
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Well to be honest I treat modern jet sims more as interactive mauals than games - that is I don't actually play them much as I fiddle with and admire them. But the cool thing about Mig Alley is that it is still in the 'gun kill' era of air combat and the game really manages to graphically convey the big dogfights that ocurred, and the F-86 is fun to fly. They say the dynamic campaign is one the best but I stick to single missions.
Possibly my favorite, even to this day, is the venerable European Air War, which is still one of the best straight-up dogfighters. It has aged pretty well having been dearly cared for by a dedicated cadre of fans and modders.
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| 1 SEP 2011 at 8:54am |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2758
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | One can't really blame the British postal service for being very fast, the game has still not arrived (I don't know why, but when I order from GB, it almost always takes 1-3 days longer than from any other European country, and during the last few years, the only country that I've had issues with delayed packages from is Great Britain (and that is on multiple occasions)).
Anyway, I've never played a Jet fighter simulator, but I think I understand what you mean. Helicopters sounds like the most involved type of flight sim (though I am apparently even worse at those , I tried to play my old copy of Janes Longbow, and the end result was not all that good)
With birds of prey, do you mean this or this? (the second one is apparently called Birds of prey on consoles, and wings of prey on the PC)
And aye, you posted your favourites, and I have bookmarked that thread for future references.
Cliffs of Dover is buggy, they are supposedly working on the bugs but unfortunately the developer and publisher picked steam as the venue and the patches are loaded automatically so there is no way to test them...and i don't use Steam
And even fully patched, the game seem to be almost universally hated because of its bugs. 5 one star reviews on amazon, and 1 4 star review, that is among the worst review scores I've ever seen there.
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| 1 SEP 2011 at 10:02am |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 832
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | I meant the more recent of the two Birds of Prey - the 2nd link in your post. The earlier game is a jet sim and one of the more obsure older titles.
With a joystick ALL types of flying are more accessible - even helicopter. The biggest hurdle with modern jet/helicopter sims is not the flying so much, but complex "avionics" - meaning weapons and counter-measures systems. The best top end sims simulate these systems in great detail and can be very complex and intimidating to actually learn. The trick is to find a sim that grabs you and concentrate on it so as to absorb the required level of detail.
Prop era sims offer a much lower technical hurdle from this perspecive [tho they can be complex]. Simply becoming a proficient flyer is usually sufficient to acheiiving some success.
Either way a well conceived flight or racing sim is one of the pinacles of computer software. I wonder how many people [well, of of my age at any rate] bought their first computer just to fulfill the childhood fansasy of 'jumping in the cockpit"? The irony is I discovered AG's completly thourgh the "side door" so to speak.
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| 1 SEP 2011 at 3:09pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2758
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | I just got home from todays lectures, and what did I find in my mailbox if not IL-2 Sturmovik 1946! In my bag I also had a WingMan formula force GP (without the power adapter, so no force feedback ) that I got from a friend for 15€ & 2 cups of tea.
Prop era sims offer a much lower technical hurdle from this perspecive [tho they can be complex]. Simply becoming a proficient flyer is usually sufficient to acheiiving some success.
Won't a modern era flight sim be easier as far as the flying itself goes? The planes themselves should be better/more aerodynamically built, and contain a lot of things that aids the pilot in flying.
Time to experience some WW2 air combat though, I'll be back when I get bored
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| 3 SEP 2011 at 3:02am |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | The problem with modern planes is everything happens very fast....esp when the planes are accurately modeled as they are in a number of the modern flight sims. The prop age planes give you more time but they are demanding as well as you will find out but all of the sims or just about all have simple ways to fly....just landing and taking off can be dicey....esp on a carrier at sea Glad you got your copy of 46 that will be fun. Check out the mods and patches....... that series gets better and better, i am looking at Pacific Fighters which is one of the titles in the IL 2 series and it has some of the best carrier flying details i have seen yet....but above all, have fun
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| 3 SEP 2011 at 5:13am |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 832
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | just landing and taking off can be dicey
Landing is tough but rewarding if you can do it! I actually like practicing them tho i don't claim to be a good pilot - just don't pu in enough seat time. Many sims have a command to skip them if you've accomplished your mission. There's also usually a command to skip to the next enemy contact which cuts down on flying time.
DosBox treats: Aces of the Pacific/Aces Over Europe, and Red Baron 1
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| 3 SEP 2011 at 9:00am |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2758
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | Landing on flat ground was quite doable on my first try, but I think I overshot my mark slightly, so I was about 10m from the end of the runway when the plane finally stopped. I do dread landing on a smaller surface though. I'll check out some of the fan mods when I feel familiar with the game, and know what I want/need.
I'll make sure to check the DOS games when I'm done with IL-2. Red Baron is a game that I have played in the past, back during the days when 16pin gameport joysticks not only was the norm, but the only way that a normal person could play flight sims on a PC.
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 11:10am |
nicolasIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 23
Joined: 13 JAN 2010
Status : Online | Yes there are a few great ones!!
For modern fighter you can not go wrong with Lock On Flaming Cliffs 2.0 -This game is amazing.
For modern helicopter Black Shark is incredible-especially with the latest updates
For a close to ground fighter you can not go wrong with a10 -warthog
And for old WWI planes there is the Astonishing Rise of Flight.Mind you,you need a monstrous system to run it as it was intended but its a thing of beauty.Also you can play a FULL FREE version from their website.I has full multiplayer and campaign support but you are limited with 2 early planes only.So theoratically you can play through WWI to the end but towards the end of the war you are going to be seriously underpowered....heheh.But really if the game runs well on your computer seriously buy it you are not going to regret it.
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 6:30pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | I have the Rise of Flight also and it is one of the best flight sims yet made or conceived and they are working slowly and steadily to improve and add to it, i have one extra plane they are not that expensive but the entire set can indeed set you back a lot.
re landing Fnord, a friend of mine who is a pilot for Jet Blue is coaching me, she said (yes she is a female big plane pilot lol) she said to aim for the runway, dont just fall down onto it, try to land in the first third of it and use the rest for roll out, if you end up over the middle keep going and go around....use your flaps to drive the plane down to the landing and then dont forget to use brakes but use them slowly....on the carrier you will have wires that will catch the tail hook, and a barreir if you go too fast but watch the landing officer, most of the sims with carriers have Landing Control Officers who will wave you off if you are too high or off course. That was not a job i would have envied in the war...i wonder how bad the fatality rate was lol.
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| 5 SEP 2011 at 8:43pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2758
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | I should probably give Black Shark a try then, so that I can see the helicopter side of simulators. My computer was starting to get outdated 2 years ago, so I'm not sure if Rise of flight will be a game that I'll be able to play though
I have a second cousin who works as a passenger airplane pilot, so I have a tad bit of insight in the day to day life of a pilot, and how things are handled. I'm also getting better and better at landing in IL-2, at first I just landed too far into the runway, and usually at a high speed, now I've learn how to ease a plane down. Things works a lot better.
It would be interesting to try to land to see how all the mechanics works. The whole catching a line with a hook at the back of your plane sounds quite tricky actually.
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 6:49pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | great sounds like you are doing well. glad you are enjoying the journey in flight sims, i have enjoyed studying them for some years now...esp for the chance to visit the world in places I may never get to
[img]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg37/scaled.php?server=37&filename=homewardbound2.jpg&res=medium[/img]
[img]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg863/scaled.php?server=863&filename=japancoastfromsendaisou.jpg&res=medium[/img]
JDF Rescue Mission on West Coast of Japan (FSX)
[img]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg215/scaled.php?server=215&filename=japanapproachfromeastby.jpg&res=medium[/img]
[img]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg64/scaled.php?server=64&filename=thefullboard320training.jpg&res=medium[/img]
Jet Blue Flight from JFK NY to Caribbean...
[img]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg148/scaled.php?server=148&filename=boraboraparadise.jpg&res=medium[/img]
Empire Seaplane service from Bora Bora
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| 6 SEP 2011 at 7:18pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Wow, that is beautiful sky and water..
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 7 SEP 2011 at 1:53am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | I've always wanted to try a flight sim. I think I'm suddenly hooked!
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| 7 SEP 2011 at 1:54am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | [great sounds like you are doing well. glad you are enjoying the journey in flight sims, i have enjoyed studying them for some years now...esp for the chance to visit the world in places I may never get to ]
I feel the same way. Two words: Web cams.
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Exercise your vision.
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| 7 SEP 2011 at 3:49am |
nicolasIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 23
Joined: 13 JAN 2010
Status : Online | For civilian sims you can not go wrong with Flight simulator X -just don't forget to buy the accelerator expansion pack(OR fsx gold that comes together with it) ,as it updates the graphics to dx10....
There are also some amazing scenery packs to download,yet sadly the best of them you have to buy.There is one that has a very detailed rendered england with incredible detailes,there is one more generic for europe and usa,a few for some major usa cities and 2 very beautifull for the hawaii and middle atlantic islands...
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| 7 SEP 2011 at 4:14am |
nicolasIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 23
Joined: 13 JAN 2010
Status : Online | Just a few photos of how good Fsx can look
[img]http://www.avsim.com/pages/1109/OrbX/Helo02.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.avsim.com/pages/1109/OrbX/Tour01.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.avsim.com/pages/0110/Aerosoft/Ibiza-island-2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.avsim.com/pages/0110/Aerosoft/Ibiza-island-22.jpg[/img]
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| 8 SEP 2011 at 6:02pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | Adding Flight Environment X and Ground Environment X and Ultimate Terrain Textures adds a lot to FSX, (FEX and GEX and UT)..plus some of the individual sceneries that improve areas or entire regions like the new Orbix add on for the Pacific Northwest and some of the FSAddons for Canada by Sandman are just amazing...almost just like being there.
And you can add virtual airlines that run in the bckground populating the airports of the world with real time traffic that makes it seem just like a real world.
those are very nice pictures Nicolas
One thing i enjoy is using unusual vehicles or even sail boats or ships to get around:
[img]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8708/schoonerinthelagoonbora.jpg[/img]
[img]
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/1457/sailinginborabora.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3830/hindinbergovernyc.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9234/hindenburgovernyc.jpg[/img]
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| 8 SEP 2011 at 8:24pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Really nice. What do you mean by "civilian" flight sim. I know it is non-military. But in military you fight, yes? What do you do in civilian games? Fly around and drop water balloons on old ladies walking dogs? That's what I'd do)
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| 8 SEP 2011 at 9:08pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | Yes military you experince combat in various hysterical eras....most of them are WWII, but there are some for WWI, the Korean war and modern...
Civil air sims ...which would be mostly the Microsoft Flight sim series that started with FS 98, FS 2000, 2002, 2004 also called FS9 and FS X which had an update called Acceleration are about experiencing flight and travel around the world in high detail...the basic world you get is fairly decent but the coastlines are often minimal and the scenery not accurate, ie just generic. But you can enhance with texture and scenery packs that are incrediblly detailed. You get full weather, chnage of time of day, full working cockpits with working flight instruments, radar, landing aides, radio chatter and instructions from the tower, working airlines of all kinds, thousands of planes to choose from hundreds of free add ons from the two main sites:
Flight Sim and Avsim
so you dont "do" much other than travel and explore....you CAN get cars to drive around, ships and boats, fly baloons, dirgibles, even eagles and Santa at Christmas but flight sims of the civil kind are not focused on activity other than trips, adventures and historic experiences....
nicholas can give a second opinion here as i see that he is a thoroughly experienced virtual pilot and has a great set up ...
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