| 13 AUG 2011 at 3:52am |
| Deleted User | I think it might have been here Caroline. After reviewing the thread not so sure on the verdict. :-/
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 3:54am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | In summary:
Return to Zork is fine (DOSBox supports it fine modulo installation, but it may be run with ScummVM, which supports it quite well); Zork Nemesis is fine, but the rotation speed adjustment isn't particularly helpful, so you may find the default too fast; Grand Inquisitor is a bit spotty, but should work acceptably if you don't muck about with settings.
Your mileage may vary.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 7:01am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Thanks JKing.... for the price they are asking I may just get them and forget all idea of playing the discs.
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 8:48am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | I was about to report back in the thread that CB pointed to, when I noticed that there is another thread re Zork on the forum, so I think I'll post here instead:
Caroline, unless you have an old PC with old OS and hardware especially dedicated to old games, you won't get the discs working properly either. I have the disc versions of the games, and they just don't work with 7 and modern hardware.
I did manage to get Zork Nemesis working quite a while ago (a year or 2 ago) after much patching and fiddling, but even with a CPU slowing app, I couldn't get the panning not to spin dizzily fast.
Well, let me quickly recap what I was saying in the other thread:
====
I've now bought from GOG: Zork: Grand Inquisitor , Zork Nemesis: The Forbidden Lands as well as Return to Zork all 3 together for $10.77
It seems that this is actually a promo on GOG for this weekend: You get 40% off on all Zork games. This just happens to cut them down to $3.59 each.
See Zork Promo
So far I've tested Return to Zork and it seems to be working fine. I'll let you know about the panning re the 2 other Zork games as soon as I've finished downloading them.
=====
Right, in the latest GOG Zork news, I've now tested Grand Inquisitor as well, and it too seems to be working fine - one just has to run it as administrator in Win 7 as seems to be necessary with every single thing you run in Win 7. I don't know why they even left an option not to run something as an administrator. They could simply have saved a person the hassle and let everything "run as administrator". [smiley=shaking_head.gif]
Re ZGI: I can see how the panning would be too fast if you kept your cursor on the edge of the screen all the time. Then it indeed spins. However, it's quite simple to avoid this happening. You simply need to "nudge" the screen edge instead of keeping your cursor on the edge all the time. Then the screen moves only one frame at a time.
Possibly this is where the disagreement between JKing and Cultura might have originated. Cultura might have a very fast mouse, or be holding his cursor on the edge all the time, whereas JKing is obviously just nudging like I've now learnt to do.
It's definitely not a gamebreaker for me, and I'm glad I got the game since it's looking very interesting indeed. I'll only be playing it later though, since I have a few other games going at the moment.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 10:28am |
walshSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 384
Joined: 15 DEC 2010
Status : Offline | I've been putting off getting Zork I for years because I'm not sure if my computer is good enough. Maybe after I upgrade..
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 12:08pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By placeholder (13 AUG 2011 8:48am)
Possibly this is where the disagreement between JKing and Cultura might have originated. Cultura might have a very fast mouse, or be holding his cursor on the edge all the time, whereas JKing is obviously just nudging like I've now learnt to do.
I wasn't nudging, but as you know I have an old-timey mouse, which was current when the two rotating games were designed. Make of that what you will. It occurs to me now that fiddling with mouse sensitivity in DOSBos may make a difference for Nemesis, though.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 12:33pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | "Old-timey" huh?
Heh, well, whatever... -it does seem to be the mouse then that's at the root of the problem. Talking of which, I've found it useful to set mouse sensitivity right down for a lot of older games.
GK2 was a case in point for me. I kept missing Spoiler Alertthe wolf, a hundred times over, until it clicked for me that this game was designed for old, slow mouses.(/mice?)
Got it first time after I set the sensitivity right down...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 12:44pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | old-timey mouse? you mean a ball mouse that you need to clean the fluff off?
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 12:45pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By walsh (13 AUG 2011 10:28am)
I've been putting off getting Zork I for years because I'm not sure if my computer is good enough. Maybe after I upgrade..
Do you mean DOSBox might be too demanding? IIRC, I played Zork Nemesis (or started playing it) fine in XP without DOSBox. (Needs a patch and so on for a dual/multi-core CPU) It was just the fast panning that put me off, but that might be not a problem for you if you have older hardware. In fact having older hardware will definitely be an advantage when attempting to play the Zork games. (Especially the last 2 sans DOSBox)
..erm... though I suspect you might be kidding...
in which case...
-just ignore all the above.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 12:56pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (13 AUG 2011 12:44pm)
old-timey mouse? you mean a ball mouse that you need to clean the fluff off?
Thankfully not that old-timey. No, my mouse is an optical mouse, but it was one of Microsoft's earlier commercially-released optical mice, the Intellimouse Explorer circa (I believe) 2000. Unlike more modern mice which can track at resolutions upwards of 2000dpi, mine tracks at a paltry 200dpi. I aodre the button layout, though, so despite two of them breaking over the years (and donating one to my brother), I've always replaced it with the same model.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 1:07pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Heh, yes, I remember having a conversation with JKing about his mouse. At the time, I was shocked to hear that his mouse still does 200 dpi, whereas my mouse can go to about 4000 dpi, and has 5 on-the-fly settings for speed.
I also remember that he very stubbornly insisted on clinging to/finding another version of this model of mouse, despite my protestations of shock...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 2:51pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By placeholder (13 AUG 2011 1:07pm)
I also remember that he very stubbornly insisted on clinging to/finding another version of this model of mouse, despite my protestations of shock...
Yes, and I'm still happy with it, thank you.
If you can find me a fancy mouse with "bumper" buttons on either side instead of only on the thumb side, then I'll consider it quite seriously. You may consider it a challenge if you wish. 8-)
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 3:33pm |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 821
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | I've heard that playing Nemesis under DosBox, while it can solve the pan speed problem, you loose the great ambient sounds. Can anyone confirm this?
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 6:01pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By mgonneau (13 AUG 2011 3:33pm)
I've heard that playing Nemesis under DosBox, while it can solve the pan speed problem, you loose the great ambient sounds. Can anyone confirm this?
This is from page 2 of the manual that came with the 1996 Activision version of Zork Nemesis:
The first decision you have to make is which version to install -- Windows 95 or MS-DOS. Both versions are on the CDs and you should choose the one that is better for your system. Your system components may restrict which version you should use. Please check the minimum system requirements. If you are capable of running the Windows 95 version, we strongly recommend that you do so. This version will allow you to hear the cool ambient sounds and play some extra animations that aren't accessible in the DOS version.
So the DOSBox version doesn't have the ambient sounds, not because they've been removed but because the original DOS version didn't have them.
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 6:23pm |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 821
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Thanks Jen - unfortunately that's what I thought. I'm still trying to find an app that can adequately slow down the 4ghz quad core cpu in my new build. The ambient sounds do add a lot too the game btw...
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 7:19pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Right, I have now successfully downloaded and installed and launched Zork Nemesis from GOG as well.
Well, I am dumbstruck. I cannot believe I got these 3 games, working flawlessly at first install and launch, on Windows 7 64-bit. Just like that...
..and for that price!!!!
I've got Zork Nemesis running at the moment. The panning seems fine, I'm not sure what GOG did with it. I remember that back when I tried to play it, the game was spinning like a top, no matter what I did, which is why I stopped playing it.
As for the sound; well, I honestly don't remember what the sound was like in the version that I tried previously. However, the sound in this version (It is playing in DOSBox) seems perfect. I can hear running water in the background atm in the temple, as well as some Egyptian -sounding mysterious music.
When I opened the temple doors, I heard them open with a hollow sound such as huge opening doors would make. So as far as I am concerned, this version has "cool music" and a "cool ambient sound" soundtrack. I certainly couldn't really ask for more re sound, I don't think.
My biggest problem now, is that I have no idea how to exit the game, or how to save it. :-[ I looked at my GI manual, that I have on hand, and it mentions the F function keys, but F1-9 does nothing for me... :-[
Gah, I'll have to go and dld the manual, so I can, erm... exit the game . :
EDIT: Ok, got it: Ctrl-S and Ctrl-Q.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 7:32pm |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 821
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | Awesome news! I'm going to try gog...
Push the cursor to the top of the screen and a menu bar appears with all the save/load/exit/options..
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 7:34pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Well, for $3.59, you can't go far wrong.. Oh, no but this isn't the 95 version, eh? It does seem to be the DOS version, because it uses the DOS control for saving and escaping.
...so I hope you won't be disappointed by the ambient sound. Did the DOS version not have any ambient sound at all? Like doors opening and water running?
Wait, let me play the game a bit more...
Ok, in the library I hear a rustling, and the sound of pages turning...
Well, anyway, if the bandwidth isn't a problem for you, there's not much you can lose by trying it out. The install and launch was really unbelievably painless compared to the hoops you have to jump trough to get the game playing usually...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 7:58pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Btw, I see we discussed it earlier here.
In any case, might I mention: I'm running an i-5 (Quad-core) CPU, and so far panning seems fine to me. I'm not sure how they did it. I do remember a scene later in the game though, with sarcophagi, which is the part where the panning really drove me crazy previously, and I'd like to reach that point now again before I start singing praises too loudly.
Once I reach that point, and the panning still seems acceptable to me, I'll post my.. er.. final stamp of approval here that, indeed, as far as I am concerned the panning issue has been solved.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 8:20pm |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 821
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | This is good! I just downloaded Nemesis from Gog. Installs and runs without a hitch. Pans a bit fast but okay - bet I can tweak DosBox if need to. Sound is fine, a few little pops and skips but what I'm hearing sounds just like my disk installed version [Win or Dos] - wind, clinking metal, grating stone, forlorn music, etc... so YES!
Can't access the options bar with cursor so:
Options Ctrl + P
Quit Ctrl + Q
Save Ctrl + S
Restore Ctrl + R
Skip Space
Off we go...
EDIT: dropped in a save from my Windows disk install into the fresh GoG install to compare audio effects side by side, and they are essentially the same... thanks Trav for giving it a go, lol at $3.60 it's a steal.
EDIT 2: WinThrottle allows even slower panning if you still find GOG speed a bit too fast. 25-50% works good with my 4Ghz quad core. WinThrottle was not enough without the GOG DosBox for this cpu. Phew..
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| 13 AUG 2011 at 11:12pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I do remember the DOS version had some background sounds, so I'm not sure which sounds would be missing or if you'd even notice them unless you'd just played the Win 95 version. I'm not sure about the animations either. I've never played the two versions side by side.
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| 14 AUG 2011 at 1:58am |
tincup2Journeyman
Posts : 821
Joined: 8 MAR 2011
Location: US, NYC
Status : Offline | @ Jen & Trav - I played 10-15 minutes both the Gog version and my old Win98 version [which I also have installed] and couldn't detect anything obvious in the opening stages of the game. If there is a diffefrence it must be very subtle. So subtle I can't help but think there must have been some other more drastic audio limitation people were refering to.
And so far animations, opening books, manipulating puzzles, etc. all work fine too.
The game is not 100% silky smooth however - pans occasionally stutter [very slightly] and same with sound - but nothing that detracts from the experience at all.
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| 14 AUG 2011 at 2:59am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | At least you (and others) can now play it on a current generation computer -- and with no noticeable omissions. Did GOG include pdf files of the manual and the other little book that came with the original version of the game?
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| 14 AUG 2011 at 2:59am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Curious I tried the game a little more, too, earlier tonight. Setting the rotation to slow did make enough of a difference for me, so at least that technical hurle wasn't so bad.
I'd never played the game before, and while I knew it wasn't supposed to be your typical comical Zorkian romp, I was still surprised by how creepy it is, and how effective it has remained over so long a span of time.
It's a shame about video being interlaced, though. So much movie was spent producing these full-motion video computer games, and in the end the video rarely stands the test of time. It's really too bad.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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