Just Adventure: Off Topic Forum - Well it's started...

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Topic: Well it's started...

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All Forums : [General] : Off Topic Forum > Well it's started...

#1 3 MAR 2011 at 11:01pm
Caroline JA+ Overseer Posts : 16540 Joined: 28 JAN 2007 Location: AU Status : Offline	.... the demise of the book shop. Borders and Angus & Robertson, two huge bookshop chains in Australia have announced store closures and staff layoffs. I know Borders is an American import and they seriously dented the local businesses when they arrived a decade ago but Amazon and the trend against reading as entertainment for younger people is definitely beginning to bite. I know I'm one of those perfidious customers who thinks nothing of buying from Amazon when the book I'm after isn't available in Oz. Just the other day I received another two books from Amazon that simply weren't be available in Australia and I am very happy with them and the service offered. But browsing through a book store is one of my favourite pastimes.... the smell of the books.... the quiet calmness, the delight in finding some odd tome that has been remaindered and shipped out to Oz.... browsing through second hand books shops on day trips and holidays... ah, so many of my summers involve such lovely activities. A local bookshop I buy from frequently has a vastly reduced floorsize now but often stocks interesting history books. I have one complaint. They always put a sticker bearing their name and address on the inside page and removing it results in tearing the page. So I often startle the salesgirl at the till by calling out 'stop! no sticker!' I think they hate me. I fail to see why my purchase should have their name in it. I'm sure it's illegal or at the very least unethical to alter the object at the point of sale without consultation. >
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#2 4 MAR 2011 at 3:20am
Ivinia Guild Master Posts : 4459 Joined: 7 JUN 2003 Location: US Status : Offline	I agree wholeheartedly and understand how you feel. As I get older, there are more and more things that I loved that are mere fragments of what they used to be - with some gone entirely. I loved board games - wargames in particular - and watched my favorite company, Avalon Hill, get bought out and their inventory wiped out and replaced with 'modern' board games. Those new games are also significantly more expensive. I love the used stores and hunting for gems such as old PC games and DVD movies. I went through the demise of my beloved Commodore and watched it be replaced by Nintendo 64s. Now I watch my PC games disappearing and being replaced by consoles and cheap casual games, and even cheaper App Store "mini-games". There are a few shining spots though. I went from LP albums on my stereo, to cassettes on a boom box and walkman,to CDs on my computer, stereo, and car - all of this stuff took up space and required fumbling around with items. Having to make decisions about which CD to bring on walks or road trips, etc. Now I have over 1,000 songs in my pocket a finger press away. Not only that, but also TV shows, movies, games and books. All of it, EVERYTHING, in my pocket and available anytime. I'm slowly looking at the bright side of all this... While I will miss the feeling of holding a book, CD, DVD, PC game, etc. in my hands, there is something to be said of convenience, clearing out space, and having things literally at your fingertips on a moments notice WHEREVER you are. Look at the bright side, Caroline. Books download pretty fast. You no longer have to wait for a store to open, or for your shipment to arrive. You have a desire for a book and within minutes you can have it no matter what time it is. Imagine your entire library in your purse (assuming you carry a purse) that you can pull up at anytime no matter where you are.
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#3 4 MAR 2011 at 3:22am
InlandAZ Guild Master Posts : 5586 Joined: 4 MAY 2007 Status : Offline	Save a tree - close a book store. I'm going to miss them too. What?
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#4 4 MAR 2011 at 4:02am
Andromus Guild Master Posts : 5536 Joined: 6 NOV 2002 Status : Offline	I hear you, Caroline. My favorite used bookstore closed years ago. Some time later, the Borders store at the local mall vanished. Though there still is a Barnes and Noble and a Borders store within reasonable driving distance. Admittedly I'm not helping the situation as I don't shop at either much. I refuse to pay the trumped up bit of fiction that is the publisher's suggested price. I tend to look for bargain book stores both offline and online, with Amazon being the one major exception. And I know exactly what you mean Ivinia, regarding the change in PC games. My favorite bargain store for PC games used to be a trove for all kinds of older games. Now the games section is almost completely overrun by casual dreck. Not that that's different from any other PC game retailer, of course. But I had hoped for awhile that interesting oddities would still come through here and there as the stock often changes. Nope. :-/
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#5 4 MAR 2011 at 6:02am
Fnord Schattenjger Posts : 2751 Joined: 15 SEP 2008 Location: SE, Stockholm Status : Offline	I loved board games - wargames in particular - and watched my favorite company, Avalon Hill, get bought out and their inventory wiped out and replaced with 'modern' board games. Those new games are also significantly more expensive. While AH might have disappeared from the market, there are many smaller developers who create excellent board games. Have you checked out Lock 'n load publishing? Their games might not be cheap, but the quality of the components is really good (far better than that of MMP's games, and MMP is one of the larger companies when it comes to wargames), and their games are really good. Many of AH's older games are still in print, by the way. Diplomacy, Cosmic encounter, Acquire, ASL, Britannia to name a few. I can only speak for the region that I know, but while many smaller bookstores might close down, internet bookstores are selling more books than ever, and younger people still make up a substantial part of the market. Current Let's Play: Crusader: No Remorse
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#6 4 MAR 2011 at 7:15am
Lucien21 Guild Master Posts : 4876 Joined: 9 JUL 2003 Location: 0 Status : Offline	Borders in the UK went out of business last year sometime leaving Waterstones as the main bookshop in the UK. It is also having major problems in the USA with them filing for bankrupcy protection and closing a majority of their shops in a desperate attempt to stay alive. So I'm not surprised they are having the same problem down under. The rise of supermarket book sales, Amazon discounts and the ever increasing ebook market (about 10% of all book sales are now electronic and this is rising at an alarming rate) has put the squeeze on book shops. I believe it's now time to do a sequel to You've Got Mail called You've been tweeted. This time Fox books will be getting put out of business by an internet website while he is updating his facebook page about someone he is tweeting. Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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#7 4 MAR 2011 at 11:34am
Ivinia Guild Master Posts : 4459 Joined: 7 JUN 2003 Location: US Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Fnord (4 MAR 2011 6:02am)* I loved board games - wargames in particular - and watched my favorite company, Avalon Hill, get bought out and their inventory wiped out and replaced with 'modern' board games. Those new games are also significantly more expensive. While AH might have disappeared from the market, there are many smaller developers who create excellent board games. Have you checked out Lock 'n load publishing? Their games might not be cheap, but the quality of the components is really good (far better than that of MMP's games, and MMP is one of the larger companies when it comes to wargames), and their games are really good. Yes, there are companies out there still making them, but $60+. You also can only get them via ordering from those companies or hobby stores. You used to be able to get AH games for $18 and could find them at Toy - R- Us and department stores as well as hobby stores. Lets not forget The General magazine. Many of AH's older games are still in print, by the way. Diplomacy, Cosmic encounter, Acquire, ASL, Britannia to name a few. Yes, Multi-man Publishing continues to publish the more popular titles AH had. Its a far cry from AH's full library though and they are quite expensive!
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#8 4 MAR 2011 at 12:47pm
Fnord Schattenjger Posts : 2751 Joined: 15 SEP 2008 Location: SE, Stockholm Status : Offline	While I won't deny that games can be a bit expensive, in particular niche games (like ASL), those games with a mainstream appeal (Diplomacy, Carcassone, Settlers, Illuminati) can often be found for ~25-30€ (I got my copy of Diplomacy for 10€, and it was an unopened copy of the beautiful 50th anniversary edition). And if you look around, you can often find games like Lock 'n load for 30€ as well, though it might requite a bit of work. The expensive games are the big box games. Games like Twilight imperium or Horus Heresy can cost more than 60€, though you do get your moneys worth in components in those games. And remember inflation, 18$ is a lot less today than it was in the 80's & early 90's. Current Let's Play: Crusader: No Remorse
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#9 4 MAR 2011 at 1:42pm
Agustín Cordes Guild Master Posts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline	I probably own over 2000 books by now and I regularly buy used ones. There's nothing that will ever replace the experience of opening a dusty, smelly old book and read through its pages. Nothing at all. And yet, I'll be first one to admit that a change is necessary. Three major reasons: 1) As InlandAZ very well said, ecology is definitely a concern. We simply must go digital, even though admittedly the annual print of books is much less than all the paperwork that banks, companies, organizations, etc. waste every year. 2) Pricing. At least down here new books are very expensive. Going digital should reduce prices and hopefully bring rare books to a much larger audience. 3) Newer books suck anyway. Let's face it: the editions that we get today are shoddy, with lousy materials and size. I don't buy fresh books because of this reason. In fact, I tend to look for the digital edition if available (that is, when I rarely read new stuff). So yes... down with the bookstores! (except the ones with used copies ) It hurts me to admit this but in the end it could turn out being positive for the book industry. Hopefully this will encourage publishers to "reprint" old authors that otherwise don't stand a chance in todays aggressive retail market (in our case, Philip Dick for instance). Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! www.slightly-deranged.com
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#10 4 MAR 2011 at 2:45pm
Traveller Guild Master Posts : 4039 Joined: 3 JUL 2010 Location: US Status : Offline	I'm with Caroline on this. Ever since I was.. - oh about 6 years old, visits to the bookstore were a treat and often a magical experience. A guilty pleasure, a retreat from the busy world out there. ..and although I have hundreds of books in digitized from, - (not least the free classics from Project Gutenburg), I still buy paper books, used and new, and will continue to do so as long as there are still paper books to be had. You cannot, after all, walk into Amazon.com and stroll from shelf to shelf and leaf through the pages of the treasures to be found there.. Thinking back now to myself as a little girl of 5 or 6, even the smell of our favourite bookstore back then comes back to me... * * * Just call me Trav. * * * “Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch "They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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#11 4 MAR 2011 at 4:36pm
Terry Penrod Grand Inquisitor Posts : 6693 Joined: 16 OCT 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline	. It is sad, but I too am embracing the upside of intsant digital access to so much material in so many categories. As a writer, the technology provides a real advantage and as a book / music / movie / game fan, it's fantastic. Cheers, Terry
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#12 4 MAR 2011 at 6:39pm
SirDave Guild Master Posts : 4939 Joined: 17 OCT 2002 Location: US Status : Offline	I watched the circa 1994-5 'You've Got Mail' (Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan) the other day. The plot line derived around the building of a big-box discount bookstore (likely based on Crown Books, Borders, Barnes and Noble) which is putting a small boutique bookstore out of business. So here we are 15-16 years later. Crown Books is long gone. Borders is on the rocks. And Barnes and Noble is hanging on (likely) only because it has to some extent embraced digital book downloading (ie. The Nook). The future ain't what it used to be!
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#13 4 MAR 2011 at 10:11pm
Caroline JA+ Overseer Posts : 16540 Joined: 28 JAN 2007 Location: AU Status : Offline	The publishing industry in Australia was never very big but it's fighting a hard war against the cheap imports from Asia. I've read both sides to the argument but I think by the time the govt gets around to drafting new laws, the digitisation of the industry will have changed the landscape once again anyway. I accept we must embrace change. I just mourn the passing of yet another aspect of my life that I think the next generation will miss out on by not experiencing. But I also know young people don't bliss out on books now anyway. It's all visual. I've certainly lost the battle against Google with my kids when it comes to finding information. What I'd really like to see is books on iPad with animated pictures. That'd be cool and especially nice for pre-schoolers, as it would be easy to have the books read themselves to the children.
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#14 4 MAR 2011 at 11:38pm
Andromus Guild Master Posts : 5536 Joined: 6 NOV 2002 Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Caroline (4 MAR 2011 10:11pm)* What I'd really like to see is books on iPad with animated pictures. That'd be cool and especially nice for pre-schoolers, as it would be easy to have the books read themselves to the children. Actually, that's already happening: " target="_blank">http://www.npr.org/2011/02/07/133280134/ipad-storybook-apps-and-the-kids-who-love-them
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#15 4 MAR 2011 at 11:43pm
InlandAZ Guild Master Posts : 5586 Joined: 4 MAY 2007 Status : Offline	I accept we must embrace change. I just mourn the passing of yet another aspect of my life that I think the next generation will miss out on by not experiencing. One of my favorite pastimes as a kid was visiting the local library, they had a great selection of stereoscopic viewers (the wooden ones) - they're gone now too. I'd love to find a set of those for my office; I really miss that old stuff. What?
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#16 6 MAR 2011 at 8:18pm
JKing Schattenjger Posts : 2349 Joined: 4 MAY 2008 Location: 0 Status : Offline	Incidentally, the big book-store chain in Canada, Indigo (also Chapters and Coles) is doing just fine financially, as far as I can tell. They don't beat Amazon's prices (far from it), but sometimes you can't beat going to an actual store. Had I not bought so much on my last outing, I'd probably be planning my next one! :-[ You can't kill someone in a studio.
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#17 11 MAR 2011 at 5:33pm
Allanon Journeyman Posts : 1322 Joined: 19 JUN 2003 Status : Offline	I , too , pine away for the times that I used to go to a proper bookstore . In my hometown there is one still standing ... Greenwoods . The rest are just chains . ' Chapters ' , I revile . Every damn one of them has a 'Starbucks Shitty Overpriced Crap ' attached to it . They also drove the less financially sound bookstores out . How could they compete ? There used to be at least 10 solid bookstores not 10 - 15 years ago in my hometown . Not so now . During my winter vacation back home , I actually saw a functioning ' Coles ' ... That was something , I tell you . You only live once , but , if you live right , once is enough . Being happy takes work ...
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