| 12 JAN 2011 at 2:37pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Gamespot specialises in shooters. JA+ specialises in adventure games.
Also, personal tastes of individual reviewers vary a lot as well, so the best thing is to get to know a reviewer and his or her preferences, by reading other reviews done by that reviewer, and noting how his/her taste corresponds to your own.
I personally feel that a reviewer should try to give at least to some extent an objective view, and state if he or she has specific biases which would prejudice them either for or against a game.
At least both of the reviews you mentioned seem to agree that the ending isn't so hot. The JA reviewer is just more polite about it... [smiley=laughing.gif]
None of this portends good for me, who have just started with Alter Ego. I'm already feeling a bit out of place with the game, since I find myself, as a female, not really able to identify with the character I'm supposed to be portraying, which makes me realise what a good idea for AG's the faceless 1st person player character is. :-/
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 12 JAN 2011 at 3:37pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5587
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | I completely enjoyed alter Ego. But, be forewarned, it's an entry level adventure so don't expect to find any real challenge.
If you've got a free weekend it's just what the doctor ordered.
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| 12 JAN 2011 at 5:44pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6694
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
As a man, I have no problem relating to female lead characters in third-person adventure games like Syberia, The Longest Journey and Gabriel Knight. Plus I loved Drakan, the old PC action-adventure-shooter with a female lead named Rynn that could ride on the back of a huge flying dragon for aerial combat.
Besides... Kate, April, Grace, Rynn and Lara Croft (a.k.a. my girls) all have cute tushes, which are fun to follow around in third person as they solve mysteries and/or fight baddies.
Cheers, Terry
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| 12 JAN 2011 at 6:10pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Yes, obviously I often play as a man, since in Gothic and many other RPG's and quite a lot of AG's you don't have a choice but to play as a man, but somehow I can't seem to identify with this specific character, I don't know why.
In fact, in both my FO3 & FO NV games and my latest Ob playthrough, I specifically chose to be a man, no problem, so this is a bit strange.
Oh well, I already got the game, so shall push on, and hopefully the feeling will improve.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 12 JAN 2011 at 6:11pm |
BrianSpace Cadet
Posts : 117
Joined: 28 SEP 2010
Status : Offline | The two reviews seem to focus on very different things, which I think is why they seem so far apart in their conclusions. The Gamespot review mainly bemoans the storyline's lacks (shallow, slow-moving, no suspense). The JA review focuses on the attention to technical detail in the graphics, voicing, and game mechanics. Compare and contrast -- JA: "Every scene is professionally drawn with no hint of repeating textures" -- and Gamespot: "But the environments, while attractive, aren't atmospheric enough to encourage tension." Reading between the lines, I can definitely see how these two reviews are both about the same game.
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| 12 JAN 2011 at 7:40pm |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | JA+
The puzzles are all inventory based and quite fair. Sometimes you need to use an item for something it was not intended for, but in a world where you must make do with what you have it is all quite reasonable. Game play is all point-and-click with no frustrations
GS
Where the story is rancid, the puzzles are merely boring. None of them require brainpower. There are no environmental tests of logic, no clever solutions to multitiered problems, and no need to pay close attention to subtle clues. If you aren't sure of what you need to do, just click on everything until something happens.
They should come up with some sort of objective reviewing system for puzzles, that should be the easy part.
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| 12 JAN 2011 at 7:43pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By placeholder (12 JAN 2011 6:09pm)
Yes, obviously I often play as a man, since in Gothic and many other RPG's and quite a lot of AG's you don't have a choice but to play as a man, but somehow I can't seem to identify with this specific character, I don't know why.
Both playable characters in Alter Ego are selfish and unlikable. One is an amoral thief and the other is a snotty policeman whose main concern is in his own advancement. It's hard to relate to (or care about) either of them, and that affects your perception of the story. There's not much suspense if the characters are so disagreeable that you don't care about what happens to them.
Originally Posted By breadbox (12 JAN 2011 6:10pm)
The two reviews seem to focus on very different things, which I think is why they seem so far apart in their conclusions. The Gamespot review mainly bemoans the storyline's lacks (shallow, slow-moving, no suspense). The JA review focuses on the attention to technical detail in the graphics, voicing, and game mechanics.
And strangely enough, the concerns of the Gamespot reviewer are probably closer to what most adventure gamers would think was important. No matter how good a game "looks," most adventure gamers are more interested in the story than the graphics.
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| 13 JAN 2011 at 2:26am |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Since when do people always have to share the same opinion? I just started the game myself. Generally adventure game sites tend to overrate their games. They refuse to see glaring flaws because they love the genre. Mainstream sites underrate their adventure reviews because they don't care much for the genre.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 13 JAN 2011 at 3:26am |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2759
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | I agree with Shadow9d9, it seem to be quite a trend when it comes to reviews of AGs.
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| 13 JAN 2011 at 4:49am |
MikekellyPrivate Detective
Posts : 618
Joined: 25 JUN 2004
Status : Offline |
Gamespot DID give Ghost Trick - an adventure game on the Nintendo DS a 9.0:
http://www.gamespot.com/ds/adventure/ghosttrick/review.html
Now - I've played games that get mixed reviews and enjoyed them - but I can't find a negative review of Ghost Trick - so this is a must buy game for my Nintendo Dsi XL.
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| 13 JAN 2011 at 9:33pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (13 JAN 2011 2:25am)
Since when do people always have to share the same opinion? I just started the game myself. Generally adventure game sites tend to overrate their games. They refuse to see glaring flaws because they love the genre. Mainstream sites underrate their adventure reviews because they don't care much for the genre.
My opinion is that reviews of games should be specific to the genre they fall in & not compared to other types of games.
I don't agree that AG sites overrate their games - they are evaluated in context to other games which fall within the same category in relation to storyline, puzzles, gameplay, graphics, voice acting (if applicable) etc & general construction. Also, I have found that most good reviews do include the negative points too! The games appeal to a niche of the games market & reviews should not be written by, or opinions given by, anyone that just doesn't like the genre.
Ask me to write a review of a shooter game & I will slaughter it for be
ing boring & repetitive but may praise the variety of imaginative locations in which you can continue to do exactly the same thing & be impressed with the range of weaponry you can do it with! The point is a game like that would have to be reviewed by someone who actually likes them as I wouldn't know a bad shooter from a good one!
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| 13 JAN 2011 at 9:50pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I have to agree with shadow9d9 here. Lots of AG sites do give some games a free ride. I love Ryan to death, but somehow the latest ND game getting yet another "A" for the same old game the 23rd time around just seems excessive to me.
As for other sites, I once bashed a game pretty hard on here and someone from another site who had reviewed that game said they agreed fully with my assessment but they were told to tone down the negativity and give it a high score. Nice...
Bottom line is to stick with reviewers or other forumites who enjoy the same kinds of games as you and share your opinions with each other. You're less likely to get screwed into making a bad purchase.
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| 14 JAN 2011 at 11:39pm |
BrianSpace Cadet
Posts : 117
Joined: 28 SEP 2010
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (12 JAN 2011 7:42pm)
Originally Posted By breadbox (12 JAN 2011 6:10pm)
The two reviews seem to focus on very different things, which I think is why they seem so far apart in their conclusions. The Gamespot review mainly bemoans the storyline's lacks (shallow, slow-moving, no suspense). The JA review focuses on the attention to technical detail in the graphics, voicing, and game mechanics.
And strangely enough, the concerns of the Gamespot reviewer are probably closer to what most adventure gamers would think was important. No matter how good a game "looks," most adventure gamers are more interested in the story than the graphics.
I'd completely agree with you, JennyC. But on the other hand, even I will admit that great graphics can rescue an otherwise below-average game. For example, I found the puzzles in Aura to be rather mediocre, but the images were pretty enough to keep me entertained all the way through.
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| 15 JAN 2011 at 4:34pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (12 JAN 2011 7:42pm)
Originally Posted By placeholder (12 JAN 2011 6:09pm)
Yes, obviously I often play as a man, since in Gothic and many other RPG's and quite a lot of AG's you don't have a choice but to play as a man, but somehow I can't seem to identify with this specific character, I don't know why.
Both playable characters in Alter Ego are selfish and unlikable. One is an amoral thief and the other is a snotty policeman whose main concern is in his own advancement. It's hard to relate to (or care about) either of them, and that affects your perception of the story. There's not much suspense if the characters are so disagreeable that you don't care about what happens to them.
Yup, I haven't played the policeman yet, but it's the thief's personailty that I find it difficult to identify with, not his gender.
..and I think Ivinia might have a point there. The JA reviewer seems to tiptoe around possible faults, and seems to concentrate on the 'good' parts, whereas the Gamespot reviewer uses a totally different and rather less polite tone. Are the reviews really all that different in essence, when you read between the lines, though?
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 25 JAN 2011 at 5:17am |
MikekellyPrivate Detective
Posts : 618
Joined: 25 JUN 2004
Status : Offline |
I play plenty of adventure games that were slagged. I'm used to it. Most are not that bad - many are still fun.
There are three groups I put games in:
1) Can't find any reviews that speak badly about the game. (999 and Ghost Trick).
2) The reviews are mixed - some reviewers like the game, some don't (Crime Lab is a good example).
3) Most reviews of the game are negative. I have to search to find a positive one (Lux Pain - the game I am currently playing is in This bucket).
The bottom line is - movie reviews are the same way, I still see movies that are slagged, some of them i do still find enjoyable.
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| 27 JAN 2011 at 6:38pm |
RaySorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 362
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Location: US, CA
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By placeholder (12 JAN 2011 2:37pm)
Gamespot specialises in shooters. :-/
I disagree with this pretty strongly. Gamespot does not "specialize in shooters." It covers games on many platforms and many genres. Everything from sports games to real-time-strategy to simulation to action/adventure to role playing.
And while it may not be a particular fan of the adventure genre, it's given several adventure games high marks in the past couple of years. Check out the reviews of Nine Hours Nine Persons Nine Doors, the Professor Layton Games, Machinarium, etc.
Remember, procrastinate now. Don't put it off!!
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| 27 JAN 2011 at 7:18pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ray (27 JAN 2011 6:38pm)
Originally Posted By placeholder (12 JAN 2011 2:37pm)
Gamespot specialises in shooters. :-/
I disagree with this pretty strongly. Gamespot does not "specialize in shooters." It covers games on many platforms and many genres. Everything from sports games to real-time-strategy to simulation to action/adventure to role playing.
And while it may not be a particular fan of the adventure genre, it's given several adventure games high marks in the past couple of years. Check out the reviews of Nine Hours Nine Persons Nine Doors, the Professor Layton Games, Machinarium, etc.
Hmm, I suppose you're right in the sense that they don't ONLY specialise in shooters. Hey, I've been a member of the Gamespot forums and of Gamefaqs for many years, and have a good level 32 there, and I don't even do shooters.
So yes, of course you're quite right in that they do many other genres too, in fact, I never meant the contrary, so I probably didn't word my statement 100% correctly there.
I perhaps should rather have said that JA is probably more sympathetic towards AG's generally than Gamespot tends to be. (Which isn't neccessarily always the most beneficial thing for the gamer... so don't misunderstand me on that score, I'm not saying JA is right and Gamespot is wrong.)
But let it be known that Gamespot in the past often used to give RPG's scores that made the RPG'ers on the Gamespot forums itself, as well as other RPG forums groan. We'd got into the habit long ago already of not bothering to read the official Gamespot review, but rather the gamer's reviews.
So I admit that I've probably not been reading enough Gamespot reviews (beyond a quick scan) in depth enough lately to be able to make any utterance about their reviews, and on your recommendation, will certainly make an effort to pay more attention to their reviews from now on.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 27 JAN 2011 at 8:32pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6694
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Heck, the majority of the global PC game market is focused on shooters and has been since Id's Wolfenstein 3D, Doom and Quake were released. I'm just happy that RPGs, adventures, strategies and other PC genres still exist.
As for Gamespot and the other large game sites, they ALL cover PC shooters extensively because that's what the general PC gaming public wants / demands. They also cover lots of games for video consoles and handhelds because they sell so well all over the planet and the majority of players want to read reviews about them.
PC adventures are such a small part of the total interactive gamesphere, we're lucky that the the bigger sites even bother reviewing them at all. Some do a better job than others and IMO, Gamespot is probably the most fair, balanced of them. They even named Grim Fandango Best Overall PC Game of the Year in 1998 and have regular praised titles like Riven, Monkey Island, Gabriel Knight, Sanitarium, The Longest Journey, Syberia and other top-quality PC AGs.
What Gamespot doesn't do is obsess or fawn over every new AG that comes out and yes, they do give harsh criticism when they think it's due. They also slam bad shooters, bad RPGs and bad examples of every other genre on all systems.
Cheers, Terry
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| 27 JAN 2011 at 8:55pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | The quality of Gamespots adventure game reviews depends on the individual reviewer. The overall grade they give is usually less helpful (and less accurate for those who enjoy adventure games) than the review itself.
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| 28 JAN 2011 at 7:07am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (27 JAN 2011 8:32pm)
.
What Gamespot doesn't do is obsess or fawn over every new AG that comes out and yes, they do give harsh criticism when they think it's due. They also slam bad shooters, bad RPGs and bad examples of every other genre on all systems.
....and unfortunately they also give full marks to some games that don't deserve it and in some cases give games that really deserve a high a score lower than what the game deserves.
In the end, I think Jenny has got it right:
Posted by: Jenny100 Posted on: Yesterday at 3:55pm
The quality of Gamespots adventure game reviews depends on the individual reviewer. The overall grade they give is usually less helpful (and less accurate for those who enjoy adventure games) than the review itself.
I would say that is true of the RPG genre as well. Can't speak for shooters in this regard, but yes, reading between the lines, especially if you have come to know the reviewer, might certainly be more helpful than just going by the points the game scored.
Oh, and PS, before my words as quoted above gets pulled even more out of context, the original context was a tongue in cheek remark that: " Gamespot specialises in shooters. JA+ specialises in adventure games. Note the tongue smiley, which is supposed to put the entire remark in context of not being a categorical utterly serious remark, rather than a playful, tongue-in-cheek remark.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 28 JAN 2011 at 3:38pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2759
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | AGs can't be very easy to review though. If you play an AG that is too far from your skill level (be it too easy or too hard), it won't be much fun, unless it has a really strong story. Also, unlike shooters or CRPGs, you can usually not change the difficulty of AGs (there are of course a handful of exceptions, in Fahrenheit the difficulty came from the action sequences, and you could change the difficulty of those, and in monkey island 3 you could play at an easier setting, in which many of the puzzles would already be solved for you). A game like Riven or Schizm won't be much fun for the "average" gamer, but someone who is used to logical puzzles might love it. In the same vein, a game like Amerzon might be great for a novice AG-er, but to a person who has played a lot of AGs it might simply be too easy.
What I would like to see (but what most likely is too expensive to be realistic) is reviews done by 2 persons, one who is heavily into the genre, and one who is not.
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| 28 JAN 2011 at 5:42pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | Gamespot: "But the environments, while attractive, aren't atmospheric enough to encourage tension.
this one line of jargon expresses a universe of contempt I feel for reviewers for just about every art form, form of literature and genre of gaming. Reviewing is an art, and a demanding one. Unfortunately few of the people who review games or books or music or art these days have...
1. more than a superficial education
2. a very positive outlook on life
3. much love or care for the reader, viewer, player
4. a motive other than their own advancement and receipt of attention.
I learned this the hard way in first the tough jungle of the fine arts, then in the book publishing industry then as on the board of selection for a program for advancement and training of young opera singers, and then in study and research of the world of game design over the past 12 years....
jargon has flowered and multiplied in every genre of reviewing. A review should...
describe the quality and content of the work reviewed and place it in its genre and in the evolution of its type. It should also give an intelligent "opinion" based on enough personal experience and knowledge to make that opinion both informed and balanced. I am NOT interested in what the reviewer likes or does not like that is not their job...their job is to help us know more about works or games we are interested in possibly experiencing for ourselves....we do NOT need to receive more of the reviewers ego and high idea of their own cleverness and wit..usually expressed in overt and covert nastiness.
So i would not waste much time worrying about bad reviewers, most of them are..and a few who do a good job will stand out like a bright light on a stormy night. And above all, ignore totally any review who uses jargon like this:
Gamespot: "But the environments, while attractive, aren't atmospheric enough to encourage tension.
i remember reading an art review that addressed the "frontality of the picture plane" when talking about a painting and after that, well, i realized we are in another cultural dark age and the best we can hope for is to enjoy and learn on our own.
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| 28 JAN 2011 at 6:28pm |
RaySorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 362
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Location: US, CA
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (27 JAN 2011 8:32pm)
.
Heck, the majority of the global PC game market is focused on shooters
This isn't really true. What's the biggest selling PC game of all time? The Sims. What game did it knock off of that top spot? Myst. What are the three fastest-selling PC games of all time? The three World of Warcraft expansions.
The biggest-selling PC titles of recent years include versions of The Sims, Starcraft, World of Warcraft, and others. Not to mention the incredible rise of casual game sales for PC. While I'd never deny that shooters are important, but they simply do not "own" the market in any way, and they haven't for a long time.
Remember, procrastinate now. Don't put it off!!
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| 28 JAN 2011 at 6:30pm |
RaySorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 362
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Location: US, CA
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (27 JAN 2011 8:55pm)
The quality of Gamespots adventure game reviews depends on the individual reviewer. The overall grade they give is usually less helpful (and less accurate for those who enjoy adventure games) than the review itself.
This is, of course, true of any site, any magazine and any genre.
Remember, procrastinate now. Don't put it off!!
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