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| 11 NOV 2010 at 4:37pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Looks like it should do the job -
Is it really necessary that I buy a new PSU since I can't swap the PSU from P PC # 2 I bought last night into P PC # 1 as it won't fit b/c of its different shape?
If you want to power it up, yes. I have seen situations though where an aftermarket PSU doesn't fit the case (even though its for the correct form factor). Measure the old one just to be on the safe side, and then compare the dimensions to the new one.
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| 11 NOV 2010 at 4:46pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline |
I'd like to get this coolmax PSU while this deal's on, as it won't hurt to have an extra PSU around as you said, Jenny. Shall I go for it?
Thanks for the "measure the old one," tip, Inland - will do.
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 12 NOV 2010 at 12:21am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Turns out that the Coolmax PSU I linked to has a number of negative reviews (it worked for half the people that bought it, and didn't for the other half), so I'm thinking this one's El Cheapo (it has 3 golden eggs).
But I've foind another 400W PSU that's 5.75" W x 3.25" H x 4" D in comparison to my not quite 5 7/8" W x 3 1/2" H x 5 1/2 D PSU - do I have to be exact to the nearest 7/8 inch?
Athena Power 400W Micro SLI Ready CrossFire Ready PSU
This one has 4 golden eggs. Cost a bit more though - but reckon I'm paying for the better quality?
This is giving me ideas - thinking of perhaps upgrading P PC # 1 with crossfire/SLi video cards, RAM, etc for when I donate P PC # 1 to charity so some disadvantaged teen could use it to game on sometime after I build my new PC (or maybe even before)?
And the old components taken out of P PC # 1 (after upgrade) I could perhaps sell to the guys on VOGONS?
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 12 NOV 2010 at 2:59am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By K515 (12 NOV 2010 12:21am)
But I've found another 400W PSU that's 5.75" W x 3.25" H x 4" D in comparison to my not quite 5 7/8" W x 3 1/2" H x 5 1/2 D PSU - do I have to be exact to the nearest 7/8 inch?
Athena Power 400W Micro SLI Ready CrossFire Ready PSU
This one has 4 golden eggs. Cost a bit more though - but reckon I'm paying for the better quality?
They're both low end power supplies. One cost $2 more than the other. Inland had a link to a 350W power supply that was even cheaper. They all should fit in a standard size ATX computer case. 7/8 inch small won't matter. 7/8 too big would be a problem.
This is giving me ideas - thinking of perhaps upgrading P PC # 1 with crossfire/SLi video cards, RAM, etc for when I donate P PC # 1 to charity so some disadvantaged teen could use it to game on sometime after I build my new PC (or maybe even before)?
You'd need to buy a new motherboard that has 2 PCI-E slots for crossfire, as well as two matching video cards. Something like this
http://www.directron.com/whatiscf.html
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| 12 NOV 2010 at 3:27am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | I did a bit of checking around at Newegg and I found this one - no SLi/crossfire, but it's got 4 gold eggs compared to the coolmax's 3 gold eggs, and a number of reviewers gave it 5 gold eggs. Best of all, it cost $20 + $2 S & H and it's 400W.
Diablotek DA Series PSU
What do you think of this one, Jenny?
I think it's better to go with a non-SLi/crossfire PSU b/c this would eliminate the temptation to be subjected to "buyer's chain-reaction" of having to buy practically all new parts when this PC will likely be given to charity - what do you think, guys?
The PSU Inland linked me to's total price $15 + $9 S & H = $24
and the latest PSU I found has a total price of $20 + $2 S & H = $22.
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 12 NOV 2010 at 5:40pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By K515 (12 NOV 2010 3:27am)
I did a bit of checking around at Newegg and I found this one - no SLi/crossfire, but it's got 4 gold eggs compared to the coolmax's 3 gold eggs, and a number of reviewers gave it 5 gold eggs. Best of all, it cost $20 + $2 S & H and it's 400W.
Diablotek DA Series PSU
What do you think of this one, Jenny?
I can't tell that it's any better than the other 4 egg power supply you found.
I think it's better to go with a non-SLi/crossfire PSU b/c this would eliminate the temptation to be subjected to "buyer's chain-reaction" of having to buy practically all new parts when this PC will likely be given to charity - what do you think, guys?
You don't have to use the SLI aspect of the power supply. All it means is that you have two power connectors for fast video cards that need extra power instead of one.
It doesn't really matter which you get. They're all low end. If I were getting a power supply for a computer I wanted to use myself, I'd pay a little more and get an Antec or Seasonic or something similar quality. But this is just a power supply you're getting for practice so you don't have to pay much as long as it's working well enough to boot.
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| 12 NOV 2010 at 8:16pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Remember too that the smaller the load you place on the PSU the longer it's apt to last. Many of today's newer off-the-shelf models ship with 300 watt power supplies, and they typically hold up for two to three years.
Start with modest expectations and then ease into more extreme rigs - parts (especially quality parts) add up quickly.
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| 13 NOV 2010 at 12:48am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | I just ordered that coolmax PSU that I linked to earlier (the one with the rebate).
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 14 NOV 2010 at 4:42pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | While waiting for the new PSU (for P PC # 1) to arr., I've decided to remove the mobo from the tower console and make sure that the CPU was seated into the mobo socket correctly (lined up with the notch on the socket) as when I inserted it several weeks ago I neglected to carefully ensure that the CPU's corner notch was lined up with the mobo's socket's notch as I was in a bit of a hurry - I believe that this was before I ordered these "for Dummies" computer books as well as their arrival, if I'm not mistaken.
Anyway when I tried to remove the heatsink I had to twist it a bit and the CPU came off with the heatsink (it was attached to the underside of the heatsink) plus the CPU retaining bar on the mobo CPU socket was down/locked into place when the CPU came off with the heatsink, and I inserted a flathead screwdriver between the CPU and heatsink in an attempt to pry it loose from the heatsink's underside, it didn't work, but I managed to get it off using my fingers. I figured I may damaged the CPU this way, and that I'll probably have to order a new CPU for this practice PC (P PC # 1).
What do you guys think about this?
Originally Posted By InlandAZ (12 NOV 2010 8:16pm)
Start with modest expectations and then ease into more extreme rigs - parts (especially quality parts) add up quickly.
Inland, when you say "start with modest stuff", do you mean when ordering parts for the practice computers? How many practice PC's do I have to do before I start going into extreme PC's? BTW, I believe that by the time I'm ready to build my new PC, it'll be an extreme rig (a gaming PC for adventure games/flight sim games/games such as Darkstar).
Regarding how parts add up quickly, I noticed this a couple of wks ago when I put together a sample list of the components that I was going to put into my new PC from Newegg just to gauge how much it was going to cost.
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 14 NOV 2010 at 6:12pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Inland, when you say "start with modest stuff", do you mean when ordering parts for the practice computers?
That's it - you don't want to sit down with several thousand dollars worth of parts to practice on.
I figured I may damaged the CPU this way, and that I'll probably have to order a new CPU for this practice PC (P PC # 1).
Maybe and maybe not, CPU's are fairly sturdy - just make sure the pins aren't flattened and there aren't any hairline cracks.
If you need to replace it, it should be fairly cheap but may be hard to find.
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| 14 NOV 2010 at 9:27pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By K515 (14 NOV 2010 4:42pm)
Anyway when I tried to remove the heatsink I had to twist it a bit and the CPU came off with the heatsink (it was attached to the underside of the heatsink) plus the CPU retaining bar on the mobo CPU socket was down/locked into place when the CPU came off with the heatsink,
You pulled the heatsink and processor out while the clamp was down ?
I'd be more concerned about the motherboard than the processor.
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| 14 NOV 2010 at 10:02pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (14 NOV 2010 9:27pm)
Originally Posted By K515 (14 NOV 2010 4:42pm)
Anyway when I tried to remove the heatsink I had to twist it a bit and the CPU came off with the heatsink (it was attached to the underside of the heatsink) plus the CPU retaining bar on the mobo CPU socket was down/locked into place when the CPU came off with the heatsink,
You pulled the heatsink and processor out while the clamp was down ?
I'd be more concerned about the motherboard than the processor.
If you mean the retaining bar for the CPU on the mobo socket, yes, I pulled the heatsink and CPU out while the CPU retaining clamp was down - so what happens next? Do I have to order a new mobo (and maybe new CPU) from Newegg? I'm laughing at what I did - pulling the heatsink/CPU off the mobo - I think this is sooooo funny - what I did, a possible mistake, fit for an article for MAD magazine.
Well anyway, here are some pics of the CPU and mobo socket -
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/DSC_0429.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/DSC_0432.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/DSC_0433.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/DSC_0434.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/DSC_0427.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/DSC_0428.jpg[/img]
These last 5 photos are of the same side of the CPU taken from slightly different angles. The CPU/mobo socket looks ok, I don't think there was any damage done, was there?
Jenny, why would you be more concerned about the mobo?
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 15 NOV 2010 at 3:08am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Because you might have bent it while pulling and cracked some of the connections in it.
I can't tell from the picture whether all the pins of the processor are still straight. The test is whether they fit into the holder on the motherboard, and whether any of them are missing. Try to wipe off some of that thermal compound. It shouldn't get on the pins, or in the holes they fit into.
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| 16 NOV 2010 at 8:49pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | To change the subject a little (whle waiting for the PSU to arr) - I've been studying these video card benchmark charts a bit -
Low End Video Cards
The video card I bought on Amazon (GeForce 6200 AGP DDR as a backup for the old Dell Dimension) ranks at 57, while the video card that's currently in the Dell (IIRC) is a GeForce3 Ti 200 64MB,
Mid End Video Cards
ranks at a 149 on the Mid End chart while the GeForce 256MB card I bought last month ranks at a 57 on the Low End Chart, so I'm thinking that I probably wasted $65, right? I didn't know about these PassMark charts at the time I bought that GeForce 6200 DDR AGP 256MB card, so I'm thinking the GeForce3 Ti 200 card currently in my Dell Dimension will outperform that puny GeForce 6200 DDR AGP 256MB card I bought for $65 on Amazon since (at the time) the card Inland linked me to at GB was out of stock at Newegg.
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 16 NOV 2010 at 11:32pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | There are many reasons for video card upgrades. The GF3 Ti 200 is a DirectX 8 card and the GF6 6200 is DirectX 9.0c.
While it may be at the low end, it at least it provides hardware support for newer games
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| 17 NOV 2010 at 12:10am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (16 NOV 2010 11:31pm)
There are many reasons for video card upgrades. The GF3 Ti 200 is a DirectX 8 card and the GF6 6200 is DirectX 9.0c.
While it may be at the low end, it at least it provides hardware support for newer games
Right - so now do I have to upgrade the PSU, CPU, RAM (PSU upgrade only if the new CPU/RAM require more power than the Dell's current 250W PSU) in addition to saving up for Newegg components to build a high end gaming rig (so it'll last me many years) however I'm leaning more towards upgrading the video card (if the current one no longer works, but to date I've started playing Agon The Mysterious Codex in the old Dell Dimension, this was a mid-2006 release, and it ran just fine) only in the old Dell, and saving up for these components for my new rig - what do you say, people?
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 17 NOV 2010 at 5:35pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I'm not sure I understand your question. It's up to you if you want to try and renovate your old Dell, but from what you've written the video card still functions properly and it still works for your older games. I'm not sure why you feel you have to update your old PC when you're planning to build a new one. The point of a new PC is to be able to play the new games that don't work on your old one. I think you should save your money for the new computer and leave the old one in one piece for now.
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| 20 NOV 2010 at 6:33pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (17 NOV 2010 5:35pm)
The point of a new PC is to be able to play the new games that don't work on your old one. I think you should save your money for the new computer and leave the old one in one piece for now.
Ok, Jenny, I'll leave the old Dell alone and save my money for the new one.
BTW, the new PSU arrived the other day, and yesterday I reinserted the CPU into the mobo socket, lining the CPU's notch with the socket notch, reapplied the thermal paste and the heatsink. Just a few moments ago I replaced the RAM, video card, the data cables and the mobo back into the console - and starting from yesterday, the reassembly of these said components went easier for me than it did when that P PC # 1 wouldn't POST.
Perhaps that's why I made these mistakes when first reassembling P PC # 1 so this would create an opportunity to gain more experience by having to redo it?
Ever since I started working on P PC # 1 back in Aug/Sept., (while waiting for the power cords) I saw problems in a different way - not as stumbling blocks to get frustrated over, but as opportunities to gain experience. And now I see that mistake I made (by rushing to reassemble P PC # 1 in order to beat my nephews to working on that PC in the remote [about as great as winning the State Lottery jackpot] chance that they might wander into my office because of boredom) as another opportunity to gain valuable experience.
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 21 NOV 2010 at 4:34am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Does the Practice PC start now that you have the new power supply?
Or are you not that far into reassembling it?
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| 21 NOV 2010 at 11:25pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (21 NOV 2010 4:34am)
Does the Practice PC start now that you have the new power supply?
Nope.
Here are pics of how everything is connected to the mobo -
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/3ribbondatacabletofloppy.jpg[/img]
Data cable (split 3 way) to floppy drive;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/3ribbondatacabletomobo.jpg[/img]
Data (3 way split) cable to floppy drive to mobo connector;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/newpsuconnectedtomobo.jpg[/img]
Data cable (solid cable) to mobo, optical drive & new PSU to mobo;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/singledatacabletoopticaldrve.jpg[/img]
Data cable to optical drive (solid cable);
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/spkertomobospkr.jpg[/img]
Spkr & LED. (HDD (red) & power (green) matched to red & green panel on mobo;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/resetswpwrswtomobo.jpg[/img]
Pwr SW & Reset SW to mobo, pwr sw wire (orange) matched to yellow panel, reset sw wire (blue) matched to blue panel underneath yellow panel.
I don't know what isn't right with what I did when I reassembled this PC. Ideas anyone?
Also, the little 4-wire connectors (from the new PSU) are connected to the optical and hard drive, the tiny 4-wire connector to the floppy drve, and the blue SATA cable is connected to the mobo and the hard drive,
video card, etc. all connected.
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 22 NOV 2010 at 2:35am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | It looks like you don't have the wires from the front of the case plugged in correctly.
This picture is from 755-A2+1.0b.pdf
[img]http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/8326/picture1mp.png[/img]
Make sure the LED connectors to the front of the case are correct.
It looks to me like the row with the extra pin (pin 9) is the one in the back in your picture, and should be the row with the HDD LED and Reset switch. You have the reset switch and power switch in the back.
I've reoriented your picture to match the diagram above
[img]http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8018/resetswpwrswtomobo.jpg[/img]
Same situation here: You have the H.D.D where the Power Switch should go.
[img]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7046/picture1wqla.png[/img]
Also, with the Power LED and H.D.D. LED make sure the polarity is correct. With the H.D.D. LED, Pin 1 should have the + connection and Pin 3 should have the - connection. And with the Power LED, Pin 2 should have the + and Pin 4 should have the - connection.
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| 22 NOV 2010 at 3:32am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Jenny, your comments have been beamed into my ship and placed into the cargo hold prior to uploading into my ship's computer - thanks!
Now I have a question - how do I tell which wire on these connectors is negative/positive - are the white wires negative while the colored wires positive?
EDIT - I rewired the connectors to FP 1, now the new PSU and the heatsink fan runs ok, but no beep codes nor video (for POST) even though the CRT is connected & turned on. How to get it to POST,
anyone? Why isn't there any beep codes/video?
Perhaps its not POST-ing b/c I have the + and - wires correctly connected, even though I now have the correct connectors on the correct pin sequence?
EDIT 2 - Have rewired the HDD LED, PWR LED, and the PWR SW so that the colored wire is on top (to the left on the photo rotated by Jenny100), but still no video/POST.
EDIT 3 - Have rewired the SPKR connecter, turned on the machine, and this time (on the keyboard) all 3 lights (Num lock, Scroll lock, and Caps lock) flash all at once as if the computer was POST-ing, but nothing shows up onscreen (the CRT) even though it's power cord and video cord are both connected - it's just a blank screen, no cursor, and no beep. So how much farther did I get this time, people?
The video card in that P PC # 1 couldn't be shot, could it? It was working fine before I disassembled the PC, and even after I removed it the first time and replaced it into the console, but then I removed it a second time, replaced it, since then, no onscreen video.
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 22 NOV 2010 at 5:55pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Now I have a question - how do I tell which wire on these connectors is negative/positive - are the white wires negative while the colored wires positive?
Typically the white/black leads are negative - and yes, the colored leads are positive.
EDIT - I rewired the connectors to FP 1, now the new PSU and the heatsink fan runs ok, but no beep codes nor video (for POST) even though the CRT is connected & turned on. How to get it to POST,
anyone? Why isn't there any beep codes/video
Didn't you mention you had a GF 6200? You might try swapping the video card to see if you can post.
Because there are no BIOS beep codes, it sounds like the board is the culprit.
Edit -
According to the manual, you've got a 20 pin power connector - but there's an additional 4 pin (12 volt) connector that has to be connected to the Mobo as well... Is that additional supply plugged in? I can't see from your photos. It's labeled ATX12V in your manual (see image below).
[img]http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o92/InlandAZ/atx12v.jpg[/img]
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| 23 NOV 2010 at 12:00am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Connected the ATX 12V pins (from the new PSU) to the mobo, power on and it POSTED! See pics -
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/My%20Practice%20PC/DSC_0474.jpg[/img]
Finally got it to POST;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/My%20Practice%20PC/DSC_0478.jpg[/img]
now its booting to Vista;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/My%20Practice%20PC/DSC_0479.jpg[/img]
Back to Vista - the way it was before I disassembled it, ending up with a bare console in Aug/Sept;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/My%20Practice%20PC/DSC_0480.jpg[/img]
wide angle view of P PC # 1 with piece of P PC # 2's console top by filing cabinet.
Now, about my new volunteer work (at home in my office) where I want to fix/restore computers for charity - my family agrees with this as long as replacement components cost $20 and under - is such possible (at Newegg) etc?
Some people at PC Guide advised dumpster diving for replacement/spare components - but the only PC component stores near us (Best Buy/Office Depot) are approx. 5 miles from home, I don't drive, there's no computer repair shops near our house, and our Thrift store doesn't stock computer components - I'll have to buy the whole computer console (tower, etc) but don't have to buy the monitor, KB, or mouse unless I choose to - what do you guys say about dumpster diving?
Thanks so much for your help, Inland & Jenny!
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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