| 11 OCT 2010 at 10:40pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (11 OCT 2010 9:18pm)
Not having a case fan wouldn't make a difference in the short time it would take to boot up.
If that's the case, could I have accidentally damaged some of the components way back when I removed the video card for the second time and the RAM by holding them with my fingers on the surfaces rather than holding them by their edges (I didn't know this until after I d/l, printed out, and read part of this mobo manual about an hour ago that you found for me, Jenny) and by neglecting to ground myself (by touching bare metal - again, about 6 weeks ago I didn't know how to ground myself) since when in the past, when my teenaged nephew had to install some hardware into my old Dell Dimension I told him to wear my grounding strap (he never did) so I thought it didn't really matter whether I wore my grounding strap or not when handling electronic components?
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| 12 OCT 2010 at 4:25am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I don't know which surfaces you touched, but I'm guessing you were pretty careful. The thing about static damage is that it's cumulative, so it's hard to know exactly who might have caused the bulk of it, or when. That's assuming that your problem is due to static damage at all. I'm still thinking you didn't have something plugged in correctly.
Is your nephew going to be visiting you soon? Maybe he could help you out. At least he could help you with reassembling the processor/heatsink and checking the way you've plugged things in. On the forum we're kind of at a disadvantage advising you because we weren't there when you put the computer together, and we can't watch you put it together now.
Even if it's busted, you can still practice assembling it.
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| 12 OCT 2010 at 7:35pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (12 OCT 2010 4:25am)
Even if it's busted, you can still practice assembling it.
That's what I was thinking way back when it wouldn't POST. And btw, I just ordered 2 Dummies series books from Barnes & Noble - "Build your own PC" by Mark L. Chambers and "Troubleshooting and Maintaining your PC All-in-one (6 books in 1)" by Dan Gookin. Since I'm just starting to get my hands dirty, would you recommend these books at this point, Jenny?
EDIT - Just checked the reviews for both books on Amazon.com, and more people liked these books and said they were very helpful although a few people gave bad reviews.
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| 13 OCT 2010 at 4:06am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I haven't seen either of those books in person.
So I'd have to go by the Amazon reviews, same as you.
The DVD that comes with the "Build your own PC" book could be particularly helpful if it does a good job showing how to install the parts.
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| 14 OCT 2010 at 1:11am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (13 OCT 2010 4:06am)
I haven't seen either of those books in person.
So I'd have to go by the Amazon reviews, same as you.
The DVD that comes with the "Build your own PC" book could be particularly helpful if it does a good job showing how to install the parts.
Jenny, I ordered the books from a couple of Barnes & Noble's Authorized sellers, and will let you know what I think of them when they arr. Hopefully they'll both include a DVD.
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| 21 OCT 2010 at 11:28pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
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Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | One of the books came today - the Troubleshooting/Maintaining Your PC 6 Books in 1, and IIRC, it includes a CD/DVD.
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| 23 OCT 2010 at 1:49am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | So how do you like it?
Have you learned anything new from it yet?
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| 23 OCT 2010 at 11:46pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (23 OCT 2010 1:49am)
So how do you like it?
Have you learned anything new from it yet?
I like it a lot. From just reading the intro, I learned that for a book that gives the solution to every possible problem that could go wrong with a PC, it would be necessary to write an impossibly thick book that couldn't possibly include every problem (and its solution) BUT if I understand how a PC works (by learning from this book) this will make it a lot easier to troubleshoot a problem, and that one solution may exist for several problems that can happen with a PC.
Also, today my Build Your Own PC for Dummies arrived, and from reading the intro (and a bit on the first pg of Chapter 1), I learned it's very easy to build a PC compared to building a car, for example, and that knowing what I currently know about PC's so far, I can likely build my own PC. Too, this book has a bit of troubleshooting instructions in it (but I didn't read this yet) at the back, and I've found (from reading Chap. 1's first pg) that the only tool I'll ever need to build (or repair/upgrade a PC) is a Phillips screwdriver. This book lacked the accompanying CD/DVD.
And a 3rd book is on its way - "Why Won't this @#%^^% Game Work" a CGW publication, released IIRC in 1997.
EDIT - Here's a case in point about how easy it is to install hardware into a PC: Originally Posted By someone on another forum (23 OCT 2010 11:46pm)
Heh, I remember in days past, customers calling me for a RAM upgrade. I'd tell them where to go to purchase the RAM, and then gimme a call after they received it.
Most of the time I'd simply do a step-by-step over the phone to assist them with installing the RAM; of course, totally free of charge. But...
On several occasions they would absoultely refuse "I'M AFRAID I'LL SCREW SOMETHING UP!", and the like. I'd tell them; look, this is real easy, and if I come to your house for the 5 minutes (if that) to install it for you, you'll be charged for an hour of labor. Many of them had me actually do this <grin>.
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| 24 OCT 2010 at 7:58pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By K515 (23 OCT 2010 11:46pm)
I've found (from reading Chap. 1's first pg) that the only tool I'll ever need to build (or repair/upgrade a PC) is a Phillips screwdriver.
I'd disagree with that. I've found a bent needlenose pliers to be invaluable for removing stubborn power cords from CD drives. The angle at which you have to extract them can be very clumsy and I don't have very good grip strength to start with. I could either spend 10 to 15 minutes gradually working a power cord loose (and probably skinning my knuckles) or I could use a bent pliers and it would flip right out.
A non-Phillips screwdriver (slotted screwdriver) is also useful for things like installing the heat sink/processor on an old AMD and easing things into place (for example a video card that has the tip of its plate caught somewhere under the edge of the motherboard).
And as long as you're careful to keep it far away from the hard drive, a magnetic screwdriver can be useful for retrieving wayward screws from awkward places.
So though you could probably do without certain tools, it makes the job much easier if you have them. So it makes sense and saves time to have them on hand and use them in the appropriate situations.
This book lacked the accompanying CD/DVD.
Did you get it from Amazon? According to Amazon's description on ***this page*** the book is supposed to come with a DVD. Of course if you got it used from one of the sellers, they may not include everything.
Here's a case in point about how easy it is to install hardware into a PC: Originally Posted By someone on another forum (23 OCT 2010 11:46pm)
Heh, I remember in days past, customers calling me for a RAM upgrade. I'd tell them where to go to purchase the RAM, and then gimme a call after they received it.
Most of the time I'd simply do a step-by-step over the phone to assist them with installing the RAM; of course, totally free of charge. But...
On several occasions they would absoultely refuse "I'M AFRAID I'LL SCREW SOMETHING UP!", and the like. I'd tell them; look, this is real easy, and if I come to your house for the 5 minutes (if that) to install it for you, you'll be charged for an hour of labor. Many of them had me actually do this <grin>.
On the one hand, you want to reassure the reader that working with a computer is not difficult. On the other hand, things that are second nature for a tech (for example taking precautions to avoid static damage, or getting into a computer case in the first place) are each one more complication for a newbie -- and make the procedure not so simple. Also, for someone with arthritic hands, or a broken arm, etc. it would be physically impossible to insert RAM. For people like that it's worth the money to pay to have someone do their upgrades for them -- even the "simple" ones.
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| 27 OCT 2010 at 7:18pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (24 OCT 2010 7:58pm)
Originally Posted By K515 (23 OCT 2010 11:46pm)
I've found (from reading Chap. 1's first pg) that the only tool I'll ever need to build (or repair/upgrade a PC) is a Phillips screwdriver.
I'd disagree with that. I've found a bent needlenose pliers to be invaluable for removing stubborn power cords from CD drives. The angle at which you have to extract them can be very clumsy and I don't have very good grip strength to start with. I could either spend 10 to 15 minutes gradually working a power cord loose (and probably skinning my knuckles) or I could use a bent pliers and it would flip right out.
A non-Phillips screwdriver (slotted screwdriver) is also useful for things like installing the heat sink/processor on an old AMD and easing things into place
I've forgotten about removing/installing these AMD heatsinks, Jenny - been out in outer space too long on an alien planet (Liath) unraveling a mystery with Quasar Command for the Intergalaxtic Explorer Society, I reckon. To date I put the CPU into (on that practice PC) into the mobo socket, applied a thin layer of thermal paste (just enough to cover the top of the CPU), put on the heatsink - it was a bit of a chore to get the clips anchored onto the sides of the heatsink retaining bracket, but luckily, I did it (I might have unknowingly used my alien superpowers to accomplish it without realizing it!), pressed the retaining lever on the heatsink down to lock it in place, next I put the RAM in the mobo, then I put the mobo back into the console (by the way, 2 of these books I ordered came already - more on this in a bit) and put in the PSU.
Now about these 3 PC books I ordered last wk - the other 2 came the other day - Building your PC for dummies and why won't this game work. The WWTGW book mostly covers DOS games and has some stuff in it about Win 95 games, and I believe it'll come in handy should I receive a DOS/Win95/98 game that won't work, so I'm holding onto WWTGW.
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| 7 NOV 2010 at 3:09pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | I reassembled the practice PC, guys - but I think I may have busted it. The PSU fan won't even spin nor will the heatsink/CPU fan after I plug it into a AC wall outlet. I'd like to get another Practice PC (pref. a tower model) to work on as I'd like to gain all the experience that I can get when it comes to building/assembling a PC. We do have a Thrift store back of our house and a Salvation Army store near the local mall approx. 5 miles from home.
Where do I get another practice PC?
Where/how can I gain more experience with assembling/building a working PC?
The thing is, I hope I won't have to spend too much money on a new/used Practice PC (from T-store/SA store).
And although I still have my old Dell Dimension, I don't want to mess with this since it is still running A-OK, and I want to use it to play games on (my older XP games).
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| 7 NOV 2010 at 4:20pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | I reassembled the practice PC, guys - but I think I may have busted it. The PSU fan won't even spin
Is this the internal fan, or are you referring to an external fan?
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| 7 NOV 2010 at 6:35pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (7 NOV 2010 4:19pm)
I reassembled the practice PC, guys - but I think I may have busted it. The PSU fan won't even spin
Is this the internal fan, or are you referring to an external fan?
I mean both fans - the PSU fan in particular, since it sends the DC to the mobo, which in turn, supplies power to the rest of the components, including the heatsink/CPU fan.
I also did the paper clip test on the PSU's mobo connector last night and it seemed to be dead.
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| 8 NOV 2010 at 6:03am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Remind me - did it power up before you took it apart. is this the one that failed to post?
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| 8 NOV 2010 at 9:48pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (8 NOV 2010 6:03am)
Remind me - did it power up before you took it apart. is this the one that failed to post?
Yes, it's the one that failed to POST - it failed to POST (although back then its PSU was working/fan spinning), I took it apart, reassembled it, tried to power it up, and the PSU fan is dead. No indicator lights come on.
How am I going to get as good as you are at troubleshooting computers and games if I have to keep asking questions about them every time I turn around?
b/c I think I'm relying on someone else to spoon-feed me the answers, and although I'm starting to google for these answers, I find that I'm still having to ask troubleshooting questions.
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| 8 NOV 2010 at 11:00pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (8 NOV 2010 6:03am)
Remind me - did it power up before you took it apart. is this the one that failed to post?
It's the one she talked about in this thread, Inland.
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=75653
It originally worked well enough to boot to Vista (as you can see in the pictures about 2/3 of the way down that thread). Then she took it apart and reassembled it again after posting those pictures, and somewhere somehow something went wrong. Then she tried to reseat the processor with new thermal paste and it seems to have taken a further step in the wrong direction, though I'm not sure if it's because of the processor itself or whether the motherboard was on the way out anyway. With that few screws to support it, it might have flexed enough that internal connections were broken. But I can only guess. For all I know something is plugged into the wrong connection and it's an easy fix.
Just a quick check -- there's an on/off switch on the back of the power supply and that should be set to On when you want to use the computer.
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| 8 NOV 2010 at 11:06pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By K515 (8 NOV 2010 9:48pm)
How am I going to get as good as you are at troubleshooting computers and games if I have to keep asking questions about them every time I turn around?
b/c I think I'm relying on someone else to spoon-feed me the answers, and although I'm starting to google for these answers, I find that I'm still having to ask troubleshooting questions.
Some people can figure it out themselves, but I think most of them learn by watching their friends as well as practicing.
Is the guy who gave you this computer going to be visiting you soon? It's kind of hard for us to diagnose errors from a distance. We can't check to see if things are plugged in right or look at the connections to the front of the case to see if they match up or if anything is plugged in there backwards.
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| 8 NOV 2010 at 11:37pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (8 NOV 2010 11:05pm)
Is the guy who gave you this computer going to be visiting you soon
He's too busy to check it out for me. It looks like I'll have to get my hands even dirtier (on their way to black) by keep practicing 'till I get it right, huh? If so, it's ok with me.
Thing is, the PSU seems to be dead - its fan no longer spins as it did before I took it all apart (after it wouldn't POST).
I redid the paper clip test on the PSU's mobo connector - one end on the green wire opening and the other end on (first) on the black wire open that was cater-corner (opposite side of the green wire) to the green wire, and (next) same green wire opening and the other end on one of the black wire opening immediately above it - no PSU power on jump start.
EDIT - here are some pics of the PSU connector. I have -
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/My%20Practice%20PC/DSC_0382.jpg[/img]
This type of PSU mobo connector I have in Practice PC;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/My%20Practice%20PC/DSC_0383.jpg[/img]
This type of PSU connector;
[img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/My%20Practice%20PC/DSC_0384.jpg[/img]
That last photo won't even show up as am image on this forum - but it shows up nicely in my PB album. It came from a 10 MP camera (my new DSLR) and although I resized it 2X it still won't show - so I posted a link to the photo from my PB acc't.
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/My%20Practice%20PC/DSC_0384.jpg
This image shows the PSU end seated into the mobo socket - will go in only 1 way - this way as pictured.
If I cannot figure out how to troubleshoot these kind of things, will I ever learn how to figure these kinds of things out? The Great IyIMeeMe in the Sky told me that I can be mechanically/electrically inclined when it comes to troubleshooting computers and games - and I'm taking Him at His Word.
But how do you post a link with only the name of the files showing in the link and not the nitty-gritty stuff - I know how to do at GB, but not here at JA?
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 9 NOV 2010 at 2:28am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Newegg has an ATX 350 watt PSU for $14.99 plus shipping -
Athena Power AP-P4ATX35 350W ATX Power Supply
If you never intend to add additional components to the PC, it might be fun to replace the power supply and see if you can get it to boot. It's got a 20+4 pin connector, so it will fit the board easily. It looks like your current connector is a 20+4 pin.
If you installed Windows 98 you'd be in retro gaming heaven (no more emulation).
In the future, there's really no need to disassemble a power supply (it can actually be dangerous). They either work or they don't.
But how do you post a link with only the name of the files showing in the link and not the nitty-gritty stuff - I know how to do at GB, but not here at JA?
It's a little different here - press the hyperlink icon and make it look like this...
It will display like this:
Practice PC
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| 9 NOV 2010 at 3:05am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (9 NOV 2010 2:28am)
If you never intend to add additional components to the PC, it might be fun to replace the power supply and see if you can get it to boot. It's got a 20+4 pin connector, so it will fit the board easily. It looks like your current connector is a 20+4 pin.
I don't want to put money into that practice PC - but come Wed I might be getting another Practice PC (# 2) from our local thrift store back of our house for $25, btw, this one runs W 98, and I'm pretty sure I can exchange its PSU with the PSU in my current (# 1) Practice PC, and you're right, it'll be fun to swap the new practice PC's PSU with the one from my first Practice PC.
Originally Posted By InlandAZ (9 NOV 2010 2:28am)
If you installed Windows 98 you'd be in retro gaming heaven (no more emulation).
Naah, no retro gaming PC's for me - I'm perfectly happy with emulation.
Originally Posted By InlandAZ (9 NOV 2010 2:28am)
In the future, there's really no need to disassemble a power supply (it can actually be dangerous). They either work or they don't.
I never disassembled that PSU - I just removed it from the PC console when I took that PC all apart, put the components into cardboard boxes with lids for couple of weeks, and when I reassembled everything, the PSU was dead.
EDIT - am thinking about ordering this new PSU, but I don't get what you mean, Inland, by this -
Originally Posted By InlandAZ (9 NOV 2010 2:28am)
Athena Power AP-P4ATX35 350W ATX Power Supply
especially when you said this -
Originally Posted By InlandAZ (9 NOV 2010 2:28am)
If you never intend to add additional components to the PC...
- by this, do you mean if I never intend to upgrade that PC's components but keep the same components as came in it when I got it back in Aug?
However, if I'm getting a W98 Practice PC from the thrift store Wed (will let you'all know by Wed) is it worth it to buy this PSU you linked me to Inland?
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| 9 NOV 2010 at 4:20am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | by this, do you mean if I never intend to upgrade that PC's components but keep the same components as came in it when I got it back in Aug?
That's what I was getting at -
If you're getting another PC to practice on, hold off on the PSU (there will always be another).
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| 11 NOV 2010 at 2:33am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Hey, people, we bought that PC (Practice PC # 2) from the Thrift store today - it's a Hewlett Packard Pavilion 4530, and I've found the kind of PSU it takes (for replacement in Practice PC # 1) -
PSU for Hewlett Packard Pavilion 4530
so I don't think I can swap the PSU from P (practice) PC # 2 into P PC # 1, can I? If so, no worries - I can work on P PC # 2 and perhaps next month, buy this PSU you linked me to, Inland, for P PC # 1. Am I right/wrong?
Also, this new tower we bought today is a bit smaller (mid-tower?) than P PC # 1, it had W 98 in it originally, but now it has nothing on it's HDD (according to the lady at the TS where we bought it, plus it came with no disks.
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| 11 NOV 2010 at 3:40am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By K515 (11 NOV 2010 2:32am)
PSU for Hewlett Packard Pavilion 4530
so I don't think I can swap the PSU from P (practice) PC # 2 into P PC # 1, can I?
Nope. As you can see, it's the wrong shape, and if the power supply in the computer is also only 180 Watts it will be too low for the Athlon.
If so, no worries - I can work on P PC # 2 and perhaps next month, buy this PSU you linked me to, Inland, for P PC # 1. Am I right/wrong?
If you're going to be working with computers, it won't hurt to have an extra power supply lying around. But it's up to you when to get it.
Also, this new tower we bought today is a bit smaller (mid-tower?) than PC # 1, it had W 98 in it originally, but now it has nothing on it's HDD (according to the lady at the TS where we bought it, plus it came with no disks.
Does it look like ***this***?
According to ***this***, it originally came with Windows 98, so you can try putting Windows 98 on it before taking it apart.
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| 11 NOV 2010 at 5:38am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (11 NOV 2010 3:40am)
Originally Posted By K515 (11 NOV 2010 2:32am)
PSU for Hewlett Packard Pavilion 4530
so I don't think I can swap the PSU from P (practice) PC # 2 into P PC # 1, can I?
Nope. As you can see, it's the wrong shape, and if the power supply in the computer is also only 180 Watts it will be too low for the Athlon.
That's what I thought.
Chalk this up for gaining experience for me, right?
Originally Posted By Jenny100 (11 NOV 2010 3:40am)
If so, no worries - I can work on P PC # 2 and perhaps next month, buy this PSU you linked me to, Inland, for P PC # 1. Am I right/wrong?
If you're going to be working with computers, it won't hurt to have an extra power supply lying around. But it's up to you when to get it.
I believe I'm going to be working with computers to gain experience building/upgrading/fixing them and also b/c it's something I've wanted to do for the past 15 years (but never got the opportunity until now) - probably I'll acquire future used computers for free from people that're broken/or just having been gotten rid of by other people, and hopefully I'll restore/upgrade them and donate them to charity (like computers for kids, for example, or through our local church) along with a few games bought from the T-store. Probably my friend might help me to donate them by delivering them?
Originally Posted By Jenny100 (11 NOV 2010 3:40am)
Also, this new tower we bought today is a bit smaller (mid-tower?) than PC # 1, it had W 98 in it originally, but now it has nothing on it's HDD (according to the lady at the TS where we bought it, plus it came with no disks.
Does it look like ***this***?
Yes, that's it, exactly, Jenny.
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