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| 25 MAR 2010 at 11:55pm |
RajIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 23
Joined: 2 MAY 2003
Status : Online | Should Indie developers still strive to make traditional (or more traditional in any case) ADVENTURE games, even though the market for them is so small?
Yes! but I think you are making an assumption by limiting yourself to the core AG market. Put a game together that is visually appealing and has an engaging story and you'll find yourself selling games to people who are not part of the core group.
Hmm... To whom are you referring as "people who are not part of the [AG] core group"? I'm just curious at this point. First-time game buyers? People who play other types of games as well as AGs? I am thinking you mean both, but I wonder if first-time buyers are significant and whether at least some of the people who play both AGs and other games would know what they're in for with AGs and not expect super graphics.
[W]hen I buy or trade for or bid on or otherwise acquire a "Vintage" adventure game that I really want to play, regardless of the graphics, it is because I really want to play a great adventure game.
Be honest. How do you know its a great adventure game? Is it because you played it before and want to play it again, or because you want to experience one of the classics others still talk about that you missed. :
I am looking for classics that I have missed and heard about through reviews or from other gamers. Some of the games would not even be considered "classics" but simply look like I would like them. A game that is new to me is as new as a latest release (to me).
{W]hy, then, would adventure gamers put up with older graphics in the (somewhat) robust older adventure games market?
LOL, should they expect 2010 graphics on their 1994 games? It's all about expectations. When you buy a game made in 1994, you expect graphics from 1994. When you buy a game made in 2010, you expect 2010 graphics - if it had 1994 graphics, you'd be ticked off. Actually, you probably wouldn't even buy it unless it was one of those types of games you rarely see anymore (like Rhem - Knut can get away with 1996 graphics because he's the only one making those Myst-like games. Now imagine how well he would do if they were 2010 graphics...).
I suppose it is about expectations. But don't adventure gamers have different expectations? I really wouldn't be ticked off. In fact, don't you think it's true that even the latest releases of adventure games have graphics that can't complete with those found in other genres?
SO... I am already not making adventure game buying decisions based on graphics, although I think your argument holds for other genres. If I buy a new RPG or FPS, for computer or console, I do expect to be impressed by the graphics, even if it is just the novel use of non-technologically advanced graphics, as in the shooter XIII.
The Nancy Drew games do not have the graphics of the latest RPG.
But they are probably the best phenomenon of a return to ADVENTURE games.
I spoke with a rep for Her Interactive (I think he was the producer), about upgrading the Nancy Drew games.
Well. can't argue with inside information!
I just assumed that they were saving money by cranking out so many games and taking advantage of the fact that adventure gamers would accept non-state-of-the-art graphics.
I obviously was mistaken. :-/
What do you (all) think of the results of the poll?
Isn't it interesting that those who think it's less of a consideration and those that think it's more of a consideration are running neck and neck?
I've seen many clever, intelligent signatures.&&This isn't one of them.
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| 26 MAR 2010 at 12:33am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Raj (25 MAR 2010 11:54pm)
Hmm... To whom are you referring as "people who are not part of the [AG] core group"? I'm just curious at this point.
There are those that actively seek new AGs, then there are all the rest - Casual gamers, hard core gamers, etc. Many hard-core gamers used to play AGs but have long since given up on the genre. It's not because they dislike AGs, it's just that there were a slew of mediocre adventure games while the other genres were just all round better in terms of quality.
But don't adventure gamers have different expectations?
Why should they? I think this is a cop out. Take a look at the Other Games section. AGers also play RPGs and FPS games. I think you'll find that most AGers wish that AGs looked as good as those games. I think it's a kick in the teeth for the genre to be expected to like mediocre quality in their games. Because of people believing that we have lower expectations is the reason we keep getting mediocre games.
I think it's a double edged sword. They put of crap games because we are expected to like them anyway. This also prevents the genre from drawing in more people, so it doesn't grow.
Think about it. How many times have we seen people ask for advice on games to buy because they liked Syberia, TLJ, etc.? Great looking games with solid stories bring in more players. I don't think I've ever seen anyone new come into the genre because they loved something like Carol Reed or Crime Stories. :-/
In fact, don't you think it's true that even the latest releases of adventure games have graphics that can't complete with those found in other genres?
Very few.
SO... I am already not making adventure game buying decisions based on graphics, although I think your argument holds for other genres. If I buy a new RPG or FPS, for computer or console, I do expect to be impressed by the graphics, even if it is just the novel use of non-technologically advanced graphics, as in the shooter XIII.
Let me ask you this. If the vast majority of AGs that came out looked as good as Syberia, Dreamfall, Indigo Prophecy, etc. would you still be as willing to pay the same price for something like Carol Reed?
What do you (all) think of the results of the poll?
Isn't it interesting that those who think it's less of a consideration and those that think it's more of a consideration are running neck and neck?
Considering this is an AG site, I think the fact that a bit more than half of them feel graphics are important speaks volumes. The assumption that they aren't important to AG players isn't as true as some believe.
I do just want to go on record to reiterate that I think a game needs to be clicking on all cylinders. Graphics aren't the silver bullet, but they are a key component. I think games should at least meet minimum standards in all areas (sound, graphics, story, interface, etc.)
As far as I am concerned, my experience with your game begins as soon as I put the CD/DVD in my drive and start loading it. Build up my anticipation. A nice install, an intriguing game menu, etc. Any snag indicates you cut corners while trying to get my money and I'll feel cheated. :-/
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| 26 MAR 2010 at 5:46am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | "Good graphics" and "pretty graphics" aren't necessarily synonymous with "the latest graphics." And it's subjective as to what constitutes "good graphics." Most of the fans of Carol Reed games think they have good graphics. Most fans of Nancy Drew games think they have good graphics. Most fans of hidden object games think they have good graphics (as long as they are sharp enough to see the items).
So how do you know for sure what the results of this poll mean if you don't know if the voters are considering "good graphics" as synonymous with "the latest" graphics (as in what's considered "the latest" in big budgt action games and RPG's) -- or if they're simply considering "good graphics" as being better than 800x600 resolution? People who play exclusively adventure games and casual games have a different idea of what constititutes good graphics from those who play big budget games.
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| 26 MAR 2010 at 10:08am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Good points Jen. I base it on PC games that sell well and the ones that constantly get brought up by people looking for games (Like Syberia).
Carol Reed is an example of a developer working within their means. The games were charming at first and nice little filler games, but now they just seem to be cranking one out after another pretty quickly and they seem stale at this point IMO.
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| 27 MAR 2010 at 3:21pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | I think Adventure games are all about interactive stories. Anything else come in second. Anyone that plays them just for the graphics isn't going to enjoy the story no matter how good it is and will never play it again.
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| 30 MAR 2010 at 11:19pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I partially agree. I think there are a lot of factors, all of which need to be done well. The story is a big part, but it's NOT the only part.
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| 31 MAR 2010 at 9:32pm |
RajIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 23
Joined: 2 MAY 2003
Status : Online | Jenny100, you made an excellent insight (as you always do). See how the poll was flawed from the beginning.
Still it was just a thought and I don't regret trying it.
Thank you all, especially Invinia, because I learned a lot and you all gave me a lot to think about.
I now see a LOT more issues more clearly.
I really did this because I posted in the developers forum and the response got me thinking. :-?
Thanks!
You guys are the greatest!
I've seen many clever, intelligent signatures.&&This isn't one of them.
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| 31 MAR 2010 at 11:12pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1652
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Good graphics/the latest graphics/great graphics...you're splitting hairs. Maybe even fur. No one studies semantics before replying whether or not they demand the best/good/great/wonderful graphics from their games or not.
Obviously, some don't. Some can put up with crap graphics to play a good old game. Some won't touch a game with old graphics.
I think it's decided: there's no group-think here.
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