| 19 MAR 2010 at 11:07pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Your results might get a little skewed going off a poll on an AG site. I think the people who come here are less critical of graphics than others, but I think sales numbers speak for themselves.
Talk the the developers and see if they will tell you how well their games sold. I think you'll find that the ones with the poorest graphics had pretty dismal sales.
About the only exception I can think of might be the Rhem games. I can only imagine that those games are SO unique and of such a very rare type that players can overlook the graphics.
My 2 cents at least.
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| 19 MAR 2010 at 11:59pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | For me graphics are important. Obviously gorgeous surroundings enhance the player's immersion but cartoon stuff can be fun if the other elements are there.
As for Rhem. I have only played the first and those endless walls did get to me but that wasn't what made me stop playing. The game defeated me, pure and simple: I kept getting lost. So even boring graphics that were well done are acceptable if the game is compelling enough.
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| 20 MAR 2010 at 3:25am |
JKingSchattenjger
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Status : Offline | Adventure games need artistry. Whether that means pretty graphics, lovely music, an engaging story or any combination thereof largely depends on what sort of whole the parts create. I think that much, at least, most people will agree with.
At what point graphics become "not good enough" or "amazing enough" is purely subjective, and I think it's a waste of time to debate it. Let's just say, though, that I enjoyed both Diamonds in the Rough and Myst IV. One has serviceable graphics and the other is still among the most beautiful games ever made, so what do they have in common that I liked? Something else, I suppose.
I prefer not to over-analyse.
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| 20 MAR 2010 at 10:04am |
JelenaPrivate Detective
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Joined: 30 SEP 2007
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By JKing (20 MAR 2010 3:25am)
Adventure games need artistry. Whether that means pretty graphics, lovely music, an engaging story or any combination thereof largely depends on what sort of whole the parts create. I think that much, at least, most people will agree with.
At what point graphics become "not good enough" or "amazing enough" is purely subjective, and I think it's a waste of time to debate it. Let's just say, though, that I enjoyed both Diamonds in the Rough and Myst IV. One has serviceable graphics and the other is still among the most beautiful games ever made, so what do they have in common that I liked? Something else, I suppose.
I prefer not to over-analyse.
JKing says exactly what I feel too.
Riven is a gorgeous game, but I enjoyed the graphics of Ghost in the Sheet as well, even the black and white cartoony cut scenes. Something in the simplicity appealed to me.
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| 20 MAR 2010 at 10:36am |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | I've voted for option # 2. I have done this because I find that the most important thing in adventure games is (and always will be for me) story, characterization, dialogue. Nice graphics is an added bonus, I find. Of course, graphics also need to be in an adventure game. But maybe we need to distinguish between art design, art direction and visual presentation. (or shinyness)
If we look at the art design and art direction in The Longest Journey from 1998 or 1999, they are some of the best I've seen. Newer adventure games, maybe, seems to rely more, on shinyness?, than art design or art direction.
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| 20 MAR 2010 at 10:39am |
colpetSchattenjger
Posts : 1630
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Status : Offline | Graphics are certainly nice, and eye catching (Myst V and Uru), but I've had lots of enjoyment playing bare basics indy games like Rhem and Rhiannon. My imagination tends to fill in the blanks farily well.
So fo me, nice graphics are not essential, but welcome.
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| 20 MAR 2010 at 2:41pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1652
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | The only reason I play games is for escape and entertainment. I require the whole package--environment, plot, character, intelligence.
I look at games in a cinematic sense and I judge them just as I do films. I don't buy a game like I would a crossword puzzle book. I don't care about puzzles at all -- however, I like the mystery behind them, the puzzling secrets to find. But unlocking a door with some kind of contrived puzzle just irritates me.
I recently started playing more action games, just so I could experience better and varied environments.
AG gamers are a complicated bunch and I don't think you can please all of us all of the time, no matter how gorgeous or puzzling the game is.
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| 20 MAR 2010 at 5:16pm |
GelertPrivate Detective
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Joined: 14 MAY 2004
Status : Offline | I think you know what my opinion is, Raj. Although, I reckon you can imagine the sort of question I'd have probably asked! Something like, "o you actually need on-screen graphics to create your most memorable scenes in an Adventure game?" . . . that sort of thing. You know what I mean. :
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| 20 MAR 2010 at 5:59pm |
potanIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 16
Joined: 18 AUG 2009
Status : Online | It probably also depend on the target market you're aiming.
for example if you're only targeting adventure gamer who mostly visit this forum, i bet they don't really mind with the graphic as long as it's well presentable (because they might care more about the story / puzzle / other aspect of the game).
but once you're aiming for a bigger market, then be prepared to spend more time polishing the graphic.
(since screenshot pretty much is your first weapon to convince them to try your game).
I also agree with what Caroline has said,
a great graphic can help player immerse themselves "easier" in the game, rather than for example a crudely drawn graphic
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| 20 MAR 2010 at 9:21pm |
Lady KestrelGuild Master
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Location: US, NJ
Status : Offline | Good graphics are icing on the adventure game cake for me. They add sweetness when they are there but aren't essential for enjoying an otherwise well-made cake.
"Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?"
-Rabindranath Tagore
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 12:13am |
portiafimbriataIntergalactic Janitor
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Joined: 12 FEB 2009
Status : Offline | When I first saw screenshots of the DeFoe games (5 Days a Stranger, etc.) I didn't want to give them a chance. How glad I am that I did! The graphics are very, uh, basic but the story and gameplay are spectacular imho.
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 12:50am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
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Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By portiafimbriata30 (21 MAR 2010 12:13am)
When I first saw screenshots of the DeFoe games (5 Days a Stranger, etc.) I didn't want to give them a chance. How glad I am that I did! The graphics are very, uh, basic but the story and gameplay are spectacular imho.
I'd agree but that game was also FREE. Big difference. If you had to pay for it without ever having played it, do you think you would have done it?
Lots of people loved Himalayan Studios free King's Quest games, but when they tried to sell one, people weren't willing to pay for a game with those kinds of graphics. :-/
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 1:41am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1652
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | It's also a huge challenge to get people to pay for something you've previously gotten free, without some serious added value.
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 1:47am |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5537
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | I'm something of a retrogamer, and as a consequence poor graphics won't keep me from playing an otherwise good game. But I'm also a fan of Myst-style games, and I really appreciate how rich, detailed graphics can make immersion in a game complete. Of course, if the game play isn't engaging, no amount of eye candy will win me over either.
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 2:20am |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Like Andromus, I'm also a retro-gamer as well as a latest-gamer. In the past when I bought games, I'd just jump right in, buy the game, play it for a half-hr or so and sometimes since I didn't care for the graphics (b&w, cartoony, sketches as the cut scenes,) I'd just play that game once/twice and then get rid of it. But nowadays, since joining these AG forums, I've became more aware of ways to check out games before trading/buying them (i.e. reviews, w/t's, screenshots), and thus there are some games, even free games, that I will not even touch b/c the graphics don't appeal to me. I like graphics that look like real photographs rather than sketches/b&w, cartoons/paintings, but I will accept games like Zero Critical and Corrosion Cold Winter Waiting even though it has sepia graphics since I can always say that I'm exploring on an alien planet where the laws of physics are such that (or I've morphed into being who sees the world in sepia) that world in my gameplay appears sepia rather than in full color. Also, I will stay away from games that have blocky or 16 color graphics, such games as the early Zorks as well as text-typing-controlled AG's.
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 3:57am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1652
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Status : Offline | Good points And and K. I must admit, despite what I said earlier, I played Blade Runner and went to lengths to improve the rather awful graphics (not much you can really do), then went on to thoroughly love the game... as well as become addicted to the multiple endings. Since I'm a big fan of the film, this helped give momentum to my gameplay.
So maybe there's a retro-gamer lurking somewhere inside me
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 7:18am |
CrisGerSchattenjger
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Status : Offline | Beyond any other factor and any doubt, good graphics, beautiful imagery, magical ambience, luscious colour....make or break a game of any genre....and in any era of game design. Some of the old games have beautiful graphics...and some of the most modern have boring but skillful photo realism. So it varies. But there really isnt any doubt that good visuals are essential to the message of any game....not all can afford or will have the best. But look at the opening of Loom to see what beauty can be achieved with even the simplest and most ancient of game engines...but with master artists involved.
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 9:14am |
RajIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 23
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Status : Online | Thanks folks for all you've said. You all have given me a lot to think about.
But I'm not going to comment just now except to post for the record that as of this posting the "not a deciding factor" and "a strong deciding factor" are running neck and neck at 12 votes each.
That in itself is very interesting to me. :-?
Please chime in! :
PS-- CrisGer -- I absolutely agree with you about LOOM... and that moves my thinking away from technology to what people do with technology... and that is a very big change in my thinking... a good one!
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 11:12am |
| Deleted User | Much of what I would have wanted to say has already been said by others:
Adventure games need artistry. Whether that means pretty graphics, lovely music, an engaging story or any combination thereof largely depends on what sort of whole the parts create.
and
Nice graphics is an added bonus, I find. Of course, graphics also need to be in an adventure game. But maybe we need to distinguish between art design, art direction and visual presentation. (or shinyness)
and
Good graphics are icing on the adventure game cake for me. They add sweetness when they are there but aren't essential for enjoying an otherwise well-made cake.
and
But look at the opening of Loom to see what beauty can be achieved with even the simplest and most ancient of game engines...but with master artists involved.
To me graphics are reasonably important, but not absolutely essential as long as there is another very strong drawing factor regarding the game like novelty and excellence in story/gameplay. As has been pointed out, though, it's not so much about the age of the graphics, but the artistry involved.
That said, one must keep in mind that modern gamers have been pretty spoilt by lovely eye-candy, so I don't want to be hypocrytical and say that I've not become rather spoilt as well. However, for me it does not have to be a breathtaking photorealism that does it - it could be even 2-D cartoons, as long as the presentation is attractive and/or interesting.
(Btw, my vote was for: It depends on ____________)
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 12:11pm |
GodfreyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 36
Joined: 8 OCT 2009
Status : Online | Before three days ago, I would have said a big 'YES'. However, I started playing Gabriel Knight Sins of the Fathers for the first time and I have been blown away. Graphically, of course, it's nothing like the modern Art of Murder type adventures, but the dialogue, the voicework, the descriptions and the story are absolutely amazing. Now I know what everyone keeps referring to when mentioning this title and Jane Jensen. Thus, I have decided to answer 'not a deciding factor'.
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 12:52pm |
Taurnil MithrandirJourneyman
Posts : 1093
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Status : Online | In my point of view the answer is NO. You don't need good graphics for AG, because the story and the atmosphere are more important than graphics.
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 1:54pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1652
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Status : Offline | Originally Posted By eragon (21 MAR 2010 12:51pm)
In my point of view the answer is NO. You don't need good graphics for AG, because the story and the atmosphere are more important than graphics.
Then why use a monitor at all? Put on some nice music and read a book, maybe a Choose Your Own Adventure title.
I don't buy the icing on the cake analogy, it doesn't fly. Good graphic quality (to me) is the main ingredient. The icing would be things like: if the game is extraordinarily good, or really long, or has multiple endings, etc.
I know this isn't a debate, but I think it's worth talking about.
Would any of you retro-gamers buy a game made today with retro graphics? Or are you in it for the nostalgia?
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 2:44pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By TAS (21 MAR 2010 1:53pm)
Would any of you retro-gamers buy a game made today with retro graphics? Or are you in it for the nostalgia?
I wouldn't class myself as a retro-gamer, since as you know, Halcyon, that with some games, adventure, or non-adventure, I hugely anticipate some new releases, and if it has lovely graphics I will drool and go ZOMG!! slurp! yay!; and so forth. As you know, I also have a similar rig to your own, that can handle something like Crysis with ease, so I do like to use it for eye-candy viewing activities. ...and yet I have to stick to my point that graphics are not the begin-all and end-all for me.
Have you seen the abysmal graphics for Dwarf Fortress? Yet it has a very enthusiastic following amongst even people with rigs that can handle most modern wargames/RPG's. Morrowind, despite it's aged graphics is still on my top 5 list (although I have of late succumbed to graphic-enhancing mods). I can say the same of the Gabriel Knights, and even that the King's Quest games are still fun to play - even ones that I never played way back when. Same with fun games like Monkey Island and so forth. I also enjoyed Diamonds in the Rough for qualities other than the graphics. It all depends what the other ingredients are, like JKing said. If the game is about comedy, or has amazing, challenging puzzles and gameplay, and/or a really amazing story, graphics would go on the backburner.
On the other hand, if atmosphere and immersion are more important aspects, then graphics become more important, and if the gameworld is all about the exploration of amazing-looking places, well then of course it would be of supreme importance. For instance, the not too stellar character models in Sinking Island rather irritated me. (It would not have influenced my decision to buy, though - the boring gameplay sunk that one for me.)
So, IMHO, it all depends.
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| 21 MAR 2010 at 3:06pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1652
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | I can agree with a lot of what you say, Second Life is full of people having fun with poor graphics and connections. I tried and tried to like it, but can't. There are, however, some places that are quite beautiful.
If I was playing online with my friends and having a ball, I wouldn't care much about the graphics because the gameplay is 90% of why you're there. I did that for years. This is why Xbox and PS3 remain popular, even on the worse TVs. Today, there are better solutions, but still not up to PC standards.
Since I'm now a hermit, older than I think I am, and my tastes are probably too specific, I care more about what the game atmosphere will make me feel and imagine, than I do the gameplay. Plot and character come right after graphical environment. If someday I find myself sharing my gameplay with someone else, I would change my thinking, I"m very sure, and be open to play just about anything (I'm talking about video games, of course).
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