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| 22 FEB 2010 at 11:06pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | It's a Gameplay vs. Realism issue. It doesn't make sense that you can pick up everything, but it's annoying if you're not allowed to.
Also, backtracking is annoying.
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| 22 FEB 2010 at 11:10pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2751
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Online | They could well solve this by either hinting on where you need to return to in order to find this object, or let your character comment on useful objects in a way that indicates that it might be useful in the future.
Which game is it that has this more realistic/annoying feature?
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| 22 FEB 2010 at 11:35pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Was in Vampyre Story that did that Fnord? Seems familiar.
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| 23 FEB 2010 at 12:14am |
MKBSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 241
Joined: 24 AUG 2006
Status : Offline | I don't mind waiting to pick up an item as long as there is mention that the item can be used later ("I don't need that yet" AND there isn't a lot of backtracking without an instant-move-map. So Blonde irritated me to no end because of this.
I don't buy download-only games. Never have, never will........Mike
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| 23 FEB 2010 at 4:17am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I don't consider "realism" as it involves inventory to be much of an asset. People may joke about the convention of being able to put everything and the kitchen sink in your pants, but there's a reason for the convention. The alternative is more often than not a tiresome nuisance -- and the game is still not realistic. Being led around by the nose (you can't do such-and-such until you've done x, y, and z) is just as artificial as being able to cram whatever into your pockets whenever you please. Games are supposed to be fun, not tedious. If something can't be picked up, there should at least be a good reason for it and not just that your character hasn't triggered some odd thing on the other end of the gameworld.
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| 23 FEB 2010 at 1:55pm |
| Deleted User |
As almost always, I agree with Jenny100.
There are special conventions in Quest games. e.g. carrying around nonchalantly, in inventory, ridiculously large, heavy, or dangerous items such as ladders, crowbars, lit matches or other burning materials, etc. ****
So if you love adventure games you cannot have total realism.
Except in maybe some very exceptional cases, if you come across something your Sprite will need anytime in the game s(he) should be able to grab it whenever.
Although, it’s not a bad idea to use the phrase “You don’t need that item **at present**” in a few cases – but not too many IMHO.
However, it is legitimate that you are frequently unable to USE an inventory item until some trigger has been sprung – it should however be logical and not arbitrary.
**** Mind you, in one of the really ancient games, the protagonist more realistically carried around a small cart or wheelbarrow for his inventory.
It’s so very many years ago – was it Ricewind’s luggage in a very old Discworld game or an extremely early Simon the Sorcerer? :question
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| 23 FEB 2010 at 8:39pm |
MKBSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 241
Joined: 24 AUG 2006
Status : Offline | Having a large inventory is a disadvantage when you get stuck and have to resort to "try-everything-on-everything". And remember red herrings? Thankfully, you don't see these very often anymore.
Yogi, yes that was Discworld's Rincewind who had the magic storage chest follow him around.
I don't buy download-only games. Never have, never will........Mike
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| 23 FEB 2010 at 9:51pm |
| Deleted User | Yogi, yes that was Discworld's Rincewind who had the magic storage chest follow him around.
That was an original idea - and humorous.
I agree - I think that many Developers have learned that it is not too clever to produce imnventory lists a yard long and sometimes include red herring items to boot.
It's terribly annoying and frustrating to be in a position where there seems to be nothing else to do when stuck but to try dozens of inventry items on themselves &/or everything else in the gameword.
This is especially so when the inventory pair seem ridiculous logically. e.g. a banana onto a an old bolt --- well the banana 'grease' may overcome the rust on the bolt.
I have a feeling that it was not uncommon in the past to eliminate that Reviewers kiss of death "The game's too short".
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| 23 FEB 2010 at 10:09pm |
Luther10Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 14
Joined: 17 JUL 2009
Status : Online | Adventure games should have a limited amount of inventory (only usable items/puzzle items), or it'll become mix-n-match trial and error gameplay. Rpgs on the other hand, have more freedom in item interaction/inventory, because currency is in play. One needs to pick up items for trading purposes...
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| 24 FEB 2010 at 3:24am |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | Some people (like myself) like having lots of inventory items. I like experimenting with items, so having a lot of them to toy with is fun.
I agree that some solutions can be far-fetched, but that's some of the fun.
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| 24 FEB 2010 at 3:53am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Luther10 (23 FEB 2010 10:09pm)
Adventure games should have a limited amount of inventory (only usable items/puzzle items), or it'll become mix-n-match trial and error gameplay. Rpgs on the other hand, have more freedom in item interaction/inventory, because currency is in play. One needs to pick up items for trading purposes...
In case I missed something here, welcome to the forums Luther.
RPGs are much more open-ended. You can use various items for the same purpose which is something AGs have yet to do, but will be doing shortly. For example, you should be able to pry boards off a window with a crowbar or hammer. I remember one game that would only let me do this with a hammer that I didn't have yet, when I had a crowbar in my inventory that should have been able to do it.
To me, that is one of the biggest problems with AGs - there's a one to one relationship with problem solving and the solution is what the developer came up with. They never take into account that the player might have an idea that should work too.
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| 24 FEB 2010 at 6:29am |
Luther10Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 14
Joined: 17 JUL 2009
Status : Online | Ah yes, I understand what u're talking about. It'll be great if we have a game in which each puzzle has multiple solutions, and for each of those solutions using its own set of inventory items. That'll give the game and us the players a lot more freedom, and at the same time increases its replayability...
And to give more freedom to the player, it only makes sense if he/she is allowed to pick up any item he/she wants (including trivial/red herring items) at any time during the game without time/trigger restriction, and at the same time having an inventory limit to make it more realistic... (so in order to carry a ladder, one would have to drop everything else is his/her inventory, just like the real world)
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| 24 FEB 2010 at 11:13am |
| Deleted User | I disagree regarding the inventory restriction, Luther. I find a restricted inventory very tedious.
I agree with Jenny and Ivinia re the need for 'realism' in a game. A game is a game after all, and not a simulation of reality, so the convention of being able to carry a ton of items with you suits me fine. Like Shany, I like to have a huge inventory, and to so be able to immediately pick up objects for later - but then there should be no red herrings included.
It rather irritated me having to go back for things in Vampyre Story, not to mention the very itrritating inventory system in Still Life 2.
To avoid the tediousness of mixing and matching everything on everything else, I feel that puzzles should be logical and make contextual sense - after all, the fun of solving a puzzle, is to actually have an 'aha!' moment and solving it via your own thought-processes. It's simply no fun when the puzzles are so nonsensical that you have to try every single inventory item on everything else before even having the slightest inkling of a solution, which you stumble upon "by accident" through mechanical and mindless experimentation.
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| 24 FEB 2010 at 11:35am |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2751
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Online | Adventure games should have a limited amount of inventory (only usable items/puzzle items), or it'll become mix-n-match trial and error gameplay. Rpgs on the other hand, have more freedom in item interaction/inventory, because currency is in play. One needs to pick up items for trading purposes...
I half agree with you. In a game where inventory use is done very well, and it actually makes sense that you can use certain items at certain spots, then a large inventory works, but in far too many games it ends up with the trial and error gameplay that you mentioned. If the developers don't feel like they can create puzzles that makes sense based on your inventory, they should limit it. The overuse of inventory based puzzles, where you simply are forced to try item after item in order to find the right solution is one of the main reasons why i'm not too fond of many of the games that were released during the golden age of adventures.
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