| 31 JAN 2010 at 5:01am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I'll simply repeat that this isn't about iPhones or smartphones other than the fact that the iPhone preceded the iTouch when it came to the app market. In the end they have little to do with the prospects for the iPad.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 5:12am |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (31 JAN 2010 5:01am)
I'll simply repeat that this isn't about iPhones or smartphones other than the fact that the iPhone preceded the iTouch when it came to the app market. In the end they have little to do with the prospects for the iPad.
While they may have little to do with the prospects, the network and the retail mechanism through which people get apps are identical. AT&T and the App Store will no doubt be pleased to serve you.
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 10:06am |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | As of Sept 09 Apple had downloads of over 2 billion apps in the store. Developer revenue topped $900million . "Pocket God" recently topped 2 million downloads.
Not bad.
I'm sure there are a lot that made nothing (there are a lot of crap apps just trying to cash in), but for snesible companies with sensible budgets there can be profit to make.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 11:16am |
ILoveYouIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 56
Joined: 23 MAR 2009
Status : Offline | I'm very old school when it comes to playing games of any kind. I want a keyboard, a mouse and proper sound system. Buuuuut.. if it helps the AG market... good lol. Just make sure you release the games on pcs too!
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 1:14pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I have nothing to say, except.....
[IMG]http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6089/avataronlyheretoannoyyo.jpg[/IMG]
Carry on chaps.
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 1:27pm |
Steve VeaseySpace Cadet
Posts : 122
Joined: 30 MAY 2009
Status : Offline | I see we are still banging away on this..Agustin is right though, the level of debate is civilised compared to many other sites!
As far as the numbers are concerned the penetration of I-phones in the mobile market has been held back for 2 reasons. The price point is not attractive to many people who have phones that appear to have almost as much functionality and cost 40 percent less and who's only disadvantage is they don't have access to the I-store and the attendant apps.
Secondly, the I-phone is chained to AT&T in the states and until recently only the O2 network in the UK. Vodaphone and Orange have now joined the market over here but frustratingly are offering no competitive discounts..the price plans are practically identical to what O2 offers.. Cartel anyone?
However you paint the percentage share of the market there is no point in being churlish about the absolute level of sales though, 50 million units of anything represents a huge success..
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 1:53pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By MrLipid (31 JAN 2010 4:55am)
Part of Apple's iPhone explosive growth reflects a change in accounting rules. It's still a small percentage of the total market. (Something on the order of 10% of all smartphones [1 in 10 smartphones is an iPhone] which make up just 13% of all mobile phones [13 in 100 mobile phones are smartphones].)
You got the numbers wrong, seriously. The iPhone share of smartphones market is anywhere between 30% and 40%. Also, like I said, it's useless to compare smartphones to cellphones as they're two separate segments. Plain cellphones today have become budget devices for people that merely want to make calls and keep their contacts, as well as listening to some music and maybe take pictures. In other words, they don't want to spend money on their phones. You can bet that Apple couldn't care less about that segment. Now think about this too: which was the largest developer for cellphone games? Gameloft, hands down. And where is Gameloft focusing its business now? The iPhone.
(As a mobile developer, I face the challenge of explaining to people what they will have to go through if they want a native iPhone app. Not a pretty picture.)
I'm sure there are plenty of developers who have no problems with how Apple treats them. Do whatever you want as long as the check clears.
As a game developer that has dealt with publishers in many territories, I can assure you that complaints about the App Store are way blown out of proportion. At the very least the process is far easier and friendlier than publishing through game portals or retail. Trust me: the game industry sucks.
As for developing a completely separate market, why not? Blue water, baby. Just like the Wii. No need to recreate AG history on a new platform. Do something new that owes nothing to what came before and everything to the capabilities of the new platform. Point and click? Why not drag and tap? Why not start fresh? No debts, no history. Just something new.
Sure, why not. That's even more exciting IMO, a whole new breed of adventures. It would certainly attract the attention of veterans. The Wii and the DS had their chance but they failed to deliver (when speaking about adventures). The iPad could be a brand new chance to bring the genre to old-timers and newcomers alike.
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 2:05pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | On a more serious note, this woman loves her iPad and shows advantages not yet considered with the new device:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs
Hitler on the other hand, is not pleased with the lack of multitasking on the iPad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 3:47pm |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Rael (31 JAN 2010 1:53pm)
Originally Posted By MrLipid (31 JAN 2010 4:55am)
As for developing a completely separate market, why not? Blue water, baby. Just like the Wii. No need to recreate AG history on a new platform. Do something new that owes nothing to what came before and everything to the capabilities of the new platform. Point and click? Why not drag and tap? Why not start fresh? No debts, no history. Just something new.
Sure, why not. That's even more exciting IMO, a whole new breed of adventures. It would certainly attract the attention of veterans. The Wii and the DS had their chance but they failed to deliver (when speaking about adventures). The iPad could be a brand new chance to bring the genre to old-timers and newcomers alike.
I've given this a lot of thought and I don't think the Wii failed. The failure was on the part of those who thought the Wii was just another venue to present the usual lineup of digital content, including AGs. AGs turned out to be a bad fit.
Few people wanted to stand in front of their television reading (or listening) to dialogue while holding a Wiimote. Now, standing in front of their television and chopping a giant cupcake in half, that's entertainment.
Of course, no one could have known at the beginning that the Wii's capabilities would be liabilities in terms of AGs. Which is what leads me to believe that the type of content that will find the most comfortable home on the iPad is likely to surprise us.
P.S. Interesting Read
http://toucharcade.com/2010/01/31/ancient-frog-on-ipad-developer-thoughts/
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 5:04pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Speaking only for myself- ordinarily, I prefer to play my adventure games using and easy-on, easy-off device such as a laptop set up to hibernate and I like to be able to take my AGs wherever I go. I just don't find it all that practical or attractive to go boot up a desktop and sit hunched over a monitor.
With that in mind, I can see why the Wii never succeeded as an AG-playing device- the Wii excells as an action platform and that, it does very well. Likewise, there is no doubt in my mind that the iPad could very well become my favorite way of playing AGs.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 5:32pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Who hunches over a monitor? Hunching is for laptops and phones. My monitor is wider than I am!
iPad is certainly a gap-filler for many, but certainly not a device for the majority. It doesn't really fulfill a need or extend technology. It's a brand-loyalty product that Apple and Mac fanatics can embrace, literally.
I like my screens vertical, large, sharp and stationary. My crossword puzzles I love to enjoy anywhere, but by games belong in the command center cut off from the rest of the world.
_________________
Exercise your vision.
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 7:32pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TAS (31 JAN 2010 5:31pm)
Who hunches over a monitor? Hunching is for laptops and phones. My monitor is wider than I am!
iPad is certainly a gap-filler for many, but certainly not a device for the majority. It doesn't really fulfill a need or extend technology. It's a brand-loyalty product that Apple and Mac fanatics can embrace, literally.
I like my screens vertical, large, sharp and stationary. My crossword puzzles I love to enjoy anywhere, but by games belong in the command center cut off from the rest of the world.
Well, as I made clear, how one prefers to play their AGS is an 'each-to-his/her-own' subject. But, IMO, the iTouch and the coming iPad are categorically not brand-loyalty products. And the sales of the iPhone/iTouch and related apps indicate the fulfillment of a need and the iPad, by any measure, an extension of technology unless there is a similar device I don't know about that can download & play apps immediately, sense the position of the unit (accelerometer), respond to touch and play videos and music and do it all seamlessly (ie. the firmware has been nothing if not excellent).
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 8:19pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6694
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Brand wars aside, one thing seems pretty obvious.
The global market for improved mobile devices that play a wide range of games and serve a variety of other everyday purposes is massive.
Right now, we have a dizzying array of cellphones, smartphones, handheld game systems, netbooks, and laptops. Most are just too small to do any serious work or play large-scale games and laptops are still quite expensive, bulky, and heavy.
So the iPad's main competition would appear to be netbooks.
Perhaps it would be more productive if we concentrate on a direct comparison between them and consider the possibility that Apple's new product might drive competitive innovation in that category the way its iPod, iPhone, and iTouch have for other types of devices.
Cheers, Terry
.
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 10:10pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | That Hitler movie is used for so much. One day I may get to see it with the original words. [smiley=rofl.gif]
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 10:33pm |
Steve VeaseySpace Cadet
Posts : 122
Joined: 30 MAY 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (31 JAN 2010 10:10pm)
That Hitler movie is used for so much. One day I may get to see it with the original words. [smiley=rofl.gif]
Its called Downfall, well actually its Der Untergang but in the English speaking world its Downfall..and it is utterly utterly brilliant. the scene they always use as a parody on You Tube is where Berlin has just been surrounded by the Red Army and Hitler is telling his staff that everything will be ok because of these armies that are coming to rescue them. Except these 'armies' only exist in his imagination and his staff officers, realising that they finally have nothing to lose explain to him that there won't be any miraculous last minute reprieve..Which is where he goes ballistic. Bruno Ganz as Hitler gives one of the great performances of the last 20 years but theres far more to the movie than just what happens in the Bunker, its just a great film.
Sorry, you can get back to the actual topic of this thread now
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| 31 JAN 2010 at 11:04pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1653
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (31 JAN 2010 8:18pm)
.
Brand wars aside, one thing seems pretty obvious.
The global market for improved mobile devices that play a wide range of games and serve a variety of other everyday purposes is massive.
Right now, we have a dizzying array of cellphones, smartphones, handheld game systems, netbooks, and laptops. Most are just too small to do any serious work or play large-scale games and laptops are still quite expensive, bulky, and heavy.
So the iPad's main competition would appear to be netbooks.
Perhaps it would be more productive if we concentrate on a direct comparison between them and consider the possibility that Apple's new product might drive competitive innovation in that category the way its iPod, iPhone, and iTouch have for other types of devices.
Cheers, Terry
.
Excellent last point. And sticking to gamer interests would be great.
Also, I'd be interested in numbers. I work with a lot of people everyday and very few have iPhones. Anyone know the demographics and market share?
_________________
Exercise your vision.
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| 2 FEB 2010 at 10:07am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Sorry for the late reply, I forgot that I had posted in this thread.
Originally Posted By Agustin (28 JAN 2010 12:51pm)
It's simple: you won't tell the difference until you actually use it. This feeling is strongly attached to all Apple products. Sure, there are countless of MP3 players out there but none meets the superb design and ease-of-use of iPods. Trust me, I've tried many times to leave the iPod but after using it for a while you come to realize that no other player out there can match its interface and overall feel.
It's the same with iPhones. I'll go as far as saying that 90% of cellphones today are obsolete crap. The Android platform and Blackberrys are worthy competitors but still neither can match the iPhone. Again, the interface that Apple devised for this thing is pure genius and you won't understand just how cool it is until you use it. I can assure you, this is a sentiment shared by many users of iPhones. I'm downright serious when I say it changed the way I think about a [s]smartphone[/s] any electronic device - to say it's "three devices in one" is a gross understatement. On paper, it must look like that - on everyday use though, it remains unparalleled. Keep in mind that, while Apple certainly know how to sell a product with all their fancy words and hoopla, they also have some of the greatest engineers and designers on the field today. This means their product is really good, leaving all the fanfare aside.
I trust it will be the same case with the iPad. On paper, just like iPods and iPhones, it does look fairly average. But as a lifestyle, and with Apple's sensible approach to design and interface, I think it will sweep the board.
Thank for this detailed explanation Agustin, it's certainly better than what I've read so far and you got me interested. Although to be honest, the 'ease-of-use' issue has never been a factor for me for purchases. It reminds me of the Nokia frenzy 14 years ago when all my friends would scream in my face "BUT THEY'RE SO EASY TO USE"! Come on, it's an electronic device that you will be using every day, even if it's not so intuitive how long will it take you to learn how to use it? I learned how to use a computer with no operating system that loaded programs from a cassette player at the age of 11, I think I'll be able to handle a cell phone.
On the other hand, your next post:
I use my iPhone to check the weather, look out for restaurants, check movies at the box office, organize my contacts, important events, find my way in the streets (I don't go out that much), play games, chat, login to Facebook, read the news, organize my todos, keep an eye on my blog, listen to Al Lowe's cyberjokes, translate words, calculate stuff, record things, etc, etc.
is not very helpful as it sounds like a fancy way of saying "it has a browser".
Jokes aside, I am now officially intrigued. But I can't resist posting a picture I found in another forum:
[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Moz08RhEWgo/S2R69lAAKTI/AAAAAAABtQU/X_f_iCYLSTU/s1600/poies2.jpg[/img]
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| 2 FEB 2010 at 12:26pm |
colpetSchattenjger
Posts : 1632
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Offline | I'll chime in (for what it's worth, since I'm not the target market ).
Comparing the Ipad to a cell or laptop doesn't make any difference to me, since I use neither. I recently got a nintendo DS for puzzle games, and though I like it, having a bigger screen would pretty much almost make it perfect. So, I would buy something like this to play adventures on.
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 0063722 .&&
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| 2 FEB 2010 at 12:31pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | There is a huge sale here on Netbooks and laptops. It's almost like a fire sale. 'you think they know there's going to be a new boy on the block?
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| 2 FEB 2010 at 10:14pm |
KoriSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 399
Joined: 27 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | I was over at a female friends house the other day and she insisted on showing me all the things her new iPhone would do. (And I have to admit I was impressed.) I then asked her how much she paid a month for her iPhone services. She pays $140 a month for the full package.
I lost interest in the iPhone real fast. :-/
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| 2 FEB 2010 at 10:25pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I wanted an iPhone but the total cost - over 2 years was $1700. I was dumbfounded - I think my jaw dropped in astonishment and it wasn't available for outright purchase. I hate things that come in package deals.
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| 3 FEB 2010 at 12:16am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Currently I download music onto my computer and use iTunes and a USB connection to put it on my iPod. I don't use any kind of "package deal." Is this going to be an option for the iPad? Can you download eBooks and games using your computer and transfer them to the iPad without needing one of those expensive wireless services?
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| 3 FEB 2010 at 2:12am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (3 FEB 2010 12:15am)
Currently I download music onto my computer and use iTunes and a USB connection to put it on my iPod. I don't use any kind of "package deal." Is this going to be an option for the iPad? Can you download eBooks and games using your computer and transfer them to the iPad without needing one of those expensive wireless services?
Yes. The iPad will work exactly the same as the iTouch and exactly the same as an iPod/Nano (except that the latter doesn't use wifi). You connect to iTunes thru the USB port to initialize the device. From then on, ordinarily you interact with the iTunes app store thru your own wifi connection, although you can download apps thru the USB connection to Itunes. It's just that wifi gives you the portability wherever you have access' to wifi.
People need to understand that the iPhone and package deals have nothing to do with the iTouch or the iPad with one exception: The $800 iPad (which won't ship until a month or so after the 'main' versions) will have 3G connectivity and for $30/month you will have wireless 'anywhere' internet access which is essentially the same as the wireless internet you can purchase for data transfer & internet access to cell phones. The average person will not need this for the iPad- one's own wifi will perfectly well for typical use- and my guess is that less than 5% of iPad owners will purchase the 3G-capable iPad.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 3 FEB 2010 at 2:16am |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (3 FEB 2010 12:15am)
Currently I download music onto my computer and use iTunes and a USB connection to put it on my iPod. I don't use any kind of "package deal." Is this going to be an option for the iPad? Can you download eBooks and games using your computer and transfer them to the iPad without needing one of those expensive wireless services?
Hard to say. You won't be using USB without an iPad adapter. You may be able to get around the "expensive wireless services" but don't expect it to be made easy. No idea if you can store eBooks and games on multiple devices, even if they are only stored briefly before moving on.
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