| 25 NOV 2009 at 7:34am |
| Deleted User | I too thought of becoming a vet at a certain stage, but in retrospect it seems to me that one does have to learn to be just a little hard, depending where you practice. I dated a vet student for quite a while at varsity and so vicariously shared a little bit of what they were studying, and after he qualified, a bit of of what he did, though he went more into agricultural practise. My best friend at school's father was also a vet, and I had a few conversations with my vet boyfriend and with Lindy's dad about the euthenasia thing they are called upon to do, (for the anti-cruelty orginisations) and I didn't like what I heard, I must say.
Chris was quite hard in that respect and being more into agricultural stuff, didn't get to do so much of that, but Lindie's dad was in an urban practice which had somehow landed the questionable honour of seeing to the town council stuff which included euthenasing strays. He told me he'd have nightmares sometimes about the heaps of dead kittens, and I realised I'd have problems coping with stuff like that, as well as some heartbreak stories about abused and neglected animals, since I'm easily disturbed by suffering and cruelty.
I had a dog I loved to an extreme, a German Shepard whom I had taken to obedience school and who followed me everywhere. When she was about 8, she developed horrible abdominal cancerous cysts, which we had removed to no avail.
I tried to ignore the problem and it started going gangrenous. Eventually she started to smell bad, and I realised being alive certainly was no fun for her and the kindest thing would be to have her euthenased. I couldn't allow my beloved dog to die frightened and alone, so I requested the vet to do it while I was holding her in my arms. Just thinking back on it, and relating the incident, has set me off crying again, so I doubt I would have made a very good vet... :'(
I suppose it's possible to set yourself up to have minimum contact with the PETA type of stuff, though on the other hand, someone has to do the job... :-/
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 8:15am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | That's a sad story Traveller. Not all vets go into private practice - you could have worked in a zoo. I think by the time you'd finished training you'd probably have hardened off a bit.
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 8:25am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Caroline (25 NOV 2009 4:31am)
Oh, the deep and inconsolable pain and abject embarrassment that you must feel.
Actually I was astonished to learn it was such a shocking word in America. You're all a bunch of [s]prunes [/s] er... prudes, you know that?
Hmm, so Australians don't find it a bit... off-colour when you announce to the world that you're a prostitute/Gina/slut/wh0re/ ho/$lut/ person who would sleep with any old drunk that she finds in the gutter?? : :-?
My... my opinion of Australians are changing somewhat...
..and to learn all these things - to have them revealed only now... after thinking for the longest time, that Caroline was the staid matriarch, dug into the trenches in her warfare against male libidinousness and the sinfulness of pornography... :-/
Heh, and to think I had thought you were refused entry into the hallowed halls of Gameboomers simply because you called yourself "The Chocolate Goddess" or something to that effect.. : [smiley=rofl.gif]
/me removes her horns and passes them reverently on to Caroline. Here, Caroline, you need these more than do, since I'm not really horny enough to be thus named... [smiley=bowdown.gif] 8-)
... you sly little 'un you... <.<
[smiley=rofl.gif]
PS. If it would make you feel any better: I'd had a run in with the Americans about the word Spoiler Alert$hit, which somehow to them seems to be a lot worse then when the English just tend to sit around and talk Spoiler Alert$hit, you know... :
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 8:38am |
| Deleted User | On a related note of difference in words across the Atlantic: to anybody non-British, the word "rubbish" means "garbage" ; and to call anybody a piece of rubbish (garbage) is quite a high insult.
My brother's erstwhile Scottish girlfriend really loved using the word "rubbish" in a playful way (the word is used very commonly in Scotland in a playful context) and while the couple was visiting South Africa, the poor girl unwittingly offended quite a few people...
As in: "That's just rubbish!" or:.. "eh, you rubbish, you..."
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 11:43am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Yes it's truly amazing how easily different communities choose to be offended. My friend hosted a young German girl earlier this year and her daughter has just left for her 6 week stint in their house in Frankfurt. She was telling me how offended they all were as this German lass never said please or thank you. After about 4 weeks she mentioned that her teacher had told them all how polite Aussies were and to use these words but that it felt strange and awkward for her because they never used them at home.
Regarding 'rubbish' - it's a very nice word and when used in casual conversation as a rebuttal or contradiction to what has just been said, is never regarded as offensive to the English or the Australians.
I once said bugger to an American friend and he got all shirty. I had to roll out all sorts of proof that it's a normal word down under and is freely used instead of codger - as in 'he's a daft old bugger'. In fact it's now used in advertising but they spell it bugga to avoid giving offence.
Aussies generally have a lot of swear words that aren't taken seriously although it is a casual style of speaking.
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 12:54pm |
colpetSchattenjger
Posts : 1630
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Offline | Sorry to go off topic, but I just had to comment. This is how I've learnt to deal with having to perform humane euthanasia.
I've been working in our area since the late 80's. I am in private practice, so I get to know both my patients and clients rather well. I've been there for my patients from the first puppy and kitten visit, through their adolescent accidental prone years, and helped them manage with aging bodies and serious disease. Euthanasia is a very real part of a service I provide. I'll be honest, I have great difficulty with many patients who are often like my own pets. But the procedure is not all about a cherished pet's demise. It's about counselling to allay the guilt and helplessness that the owner feels when they see their pet ill and in pain. It's coming to grips with the fact that we usually outlive our animal companions, and more often than not, have to make a proactive decision regarding their death. It's about supporting the owner through a difficult decision and letting a loved one go painlessly and peacefully surrounded by caregivers. Most of all, it's about focusing on the good memories and knowing that those will be what helps us through the grieving process.
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 0063722 .&&
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 1:04pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By colpet (25 NOV 2009 12:54pm)
Sorry to go off topic, but I just had to comment. This is how I've learnt to deal with having to perform humane euthanasia.
I've been working in our area since the late 80's. I am in private practice, so I get to know both my patients and clients rather well. I've been there for my patients from the first puppy and kitten visit, through their adolescent accidental prone years, and helped them manage with aging bodies and serious disease. Euthanasia is a very real part of a service I provide. I'll be honest, I have great difficulty with many patients who are often like my own pets. But the procedure is not all about a cherished pet's demise. It's about counselling to allay the guilt and helplessness that the owner feels when they see their pet ill and in pain. It's coming to grips with the fact that we usually outlive our animal companions, and more often than not, have to make a proactive decision regarding their death. It's about supporting the owner through a difficult decision and letting a loved one go painlessly and peacefully surrounded by caregivers. Most of all, it's about focusing on the good memories and knowing that those will be what helps us through the grieving process.
I wish you had been my vet, Colpet. It sounds like you've been doing an excellent job there.
The way you've put it, being a vetinararian is certainly a very worthwhile occupation, and of course, like I had said in my previous post, someone has to do the job, and if it is someone sensitive, yet brave and compassionate, so much the better.
You know, in my case the guilt was about wanting to hold on to a much beloved companion of many years, (yet not long enough even in dog-years) and knowing that she still loved me though she was suffering and needed to be relieved of that suffering. At what point do you decide that her suffering has become great enough to break that bond that you have; to summmon up enough courage to let her go... ?
I felt guilty on the one hand for perhaps clinging for too long; -yet how does one know whether she does not still want to cling as well?
...and what made it worse what that right at the end she looked up into my eyes with such unconditional love and trust...
I have had to let other pets go, but this one was really the worst. I decided not to have pets anymore, and I've taken care not to become close to an animal emotionally since.
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 3:24pm |
anthonyJourneyman
Posts : 1270
Joined: 11 JUN 2003
Status : Offline | I have a vet/pet story. It concerns my 3 year old beagle.
One day this past summer, I was going hiking with Daisy and driving to the trail site with her in my SUV.
My vet had warned me not to drive with a dog and the car windows open, but I disregarded his advice. I drove with her many times, at first, with the windows only open slightly, and then later on, with them open all the way. Daisy was scared of her own shadow. She would never jump out of a car window, even if the car were parked. She just wouldn't. I knew it.
Well, there I am going close over fifty mph on a one lane highway with her sitting next to me in the front passanger seat. Nothing unusual about the trip. All of a sudden she's gone; jumped right out that window.
Instinctively, my right hand grabbed the leash attached to her, my left stayed on the wheel, my foot pressed the brake. I felt her weight on the other end of that leash. She was hanging outside the moving vehicle.
It was a choker collar so I was concerned about strangling her. I squeezed hard on the brakes and let go of the leash. The car came to a screetching halt. I heard nothing. The leash had flown right out the window.
I got out of the car and proceeded to walk around to the other side. Honestly, I didn't know what I was going to find there. According to the rules of karma, I should have found a bloody lump of flesh and bone. I had been warned and had deliberately rejected the advice of an experienced vet because I thought I knew better.
Well, there she was, bouncing around and as happy as can be. Oh, she had a few abrasions, where the road tore off her fur and opened her skin a bit, but nothing serious that was visible. I did not know about internal injuries so I immediately took her to the vet.
He examined her and said she was fine. When I told him what happened, he was incredulous. He said, "I've seen dogs die jumping off a three foot high deck, simply because they landed the wrong way. Dogs do not survive jumping out of a moving car window, especially not one going as fast as 50 mph."
The vet saw I felt guilty about what happened and was compassionate. He said my mistake was one frequently made by pet owners. We presume our pet will behave rationally, as if it is a human. But pets are not human and every now and then they will do the unthinkable. We must be prepared for that.
She now sits in the rear compartment of the vehicle behind the rear seats with her leash tied so she cannot wander around the car.
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 3:33pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By adisarro (25 NOV 2009 3:24pm)
...pets are not human and every now and then they will do the unthinkable.
But Caroline is human, and she does unthinkable things all the time.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 6:21pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2751
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | My online name is a bit of a joke on my real name. It uses the first letter from my first name (F), the first 3 letters from my first surname (nor) and the first letter from my 2nd surname (d). It's also a word or a concept that I got from a book named the Illuminatus trilogy (actually quite a good book, if a bit... strange), and the word actually means something. I just started using it when playing online games after a few of my friends had read the book, as a joke, and it stuck.
I also often use it together with this avatar: [img]http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/uploads//av-6223.gif[/img], that I got from an old pen and paper roleplaying game, and which in turn is meant to be a bit of a joke on the name itself. To date no-one has managed to connect all the dots on his/her own, so I guess the joke is a bit far-fetched.
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 9:44pm |
| Deleted User | Hey, this topic is really turning out to be interesting...
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 10:14pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Is Daisy 3 already? My goodness time flies. So glad she survived Anthony and that you've now put her where she belongs - in the back. As a teenager I would sit in the front seat with our chow Ming on my lap, holding onto her leash for dear life as she'd hang out the window catching the breeze on her face. She'd have both front paws on the outside of the car.
Humans do daft things with animals. Out here it's common to see cattle dogs on the back of tray top pick ups but now it's law for them to be restrained. For years they'd jump off into traffic causing accident and their own deaths. Being territorial and aggressive, they made great guard dogs.
Mark - really, I don't have such an exciting life. :
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 10:18pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (25 NOV 2009 7:34am)
Lindy's dad about the euthenasia thing they are called upon to do, (for the anti-cruelty orginisations) and I didn't like what I heard, I must say.
Chris was quite hard in that respect and being more into agricultural stuff, didn't get to do so much of that, but Lindie's dad was in an urban practice which had somehow landed the questionable honour of seeing to the town council stuff which included euthenasing strays. He told me he'd have nightmares sometimes about the heaps of dead kittens,
I reckon this would bother me, too. When I was taking an English class in school and we had to write an article about this kind of killing -that's what this "E" word really is, I got so offended, upset, and mad that I rose from my seat and walked out of the classroom in the middle of the lecture.
Originally Posted By Caroline (25 NOV 2009 8:15am)
That's a sad story Traveller...I think by the time you'd finished training you'd probably have hardened off a bit.
My dad told me if I became a vet it would make me "hard." And I don't want to be hard - I want to be soft, and keep my soft heart that's much too soft to use this "E" thing on any of the Lord's creations. So I'm glad I'm not a vet - at least on this planet.
And back on Xmas Day 2001 when I got my first vet game and was playing it, this "E" thing had came up and I asked my Dad if it's kinder to kill the handicapped people that're all alone with no families to take care of them, and why do animals attack their wounded ones?
Dad told me "they kill and attack the handicapped/wounded in the animal world, but not in the people world." I guess this is because people obey and worship God, so they act kinder?
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 10:25pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By K515 (25 NOV 2009 10:18pm)
Originally Posted By TheTraveler (25 NOV 2009 7:34am)
Lindy's dad about the euthenasia thing they are called upon to do, (for the anti-cruelty orginisations) and I didn't like what I heard, I must say.
Chris was quite hard in that respect and being more into agricultural stuff, didn't get to do so much of that, but Lindie's dad was in an urban practice which had somehow landed the questionable honour of seeing to the town council stuff which included euthenasing strays. He told me he'd have nightmares sometimes about the heaps of dead kittens,
I reckon this would bother me, too. When I was taking an English class in school and we had to write an article about this kind of killing -that's what this "E" word really is, I got so offended, upset, and mad that I rose from my seat and walked out of the classroom in the middle of the lecture.
Sadly, though, K515, when it is done, it's because it's something that needs to be done. Believe me, the people who have to do it, certainly don't enjoy doing it, but sometimes animals get too old and sick for those to really have any quality of life, and they often suffer so badly that it's better to put them out of their misery.
Also, in areas and countries where there are simply too many dogs and cats around, with nobody to care for them, and the state had not allocated enough money for their care, what do you do with them?
The anti-cruelty organizations certainly first do all that they can to care for and place the animals into good homes, and euthenasia is certainly the last resort.
It's certainly a situation that nobody is happy with, and especially not the poor vet who has to perform the procedure.
Kelly, you have to understand that pets like cats and dogs cannot care for themselves when they are sick and wounded. They cannot think the same way that people do. You must also remember that their lives are much shorter, also, than that of humans before they die of old age. Dogs usually only become about 10 - 13 years old.
A free roaming cat usually does not survive for longer than three years, while a domesticated cat can live up to 15-18 years old, though they usually don't get much older than 14 years old.
So you see, that if left to themselves, they don't cope all that well than when people are around to care for them.
This is just how nature works, - animals don't live all that long, and it's just something we have to accept.
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 10:35pm |
AlienBZJourneyman
Posts : 877
Joined: 14 JAN 2008
Status : Offline | Well, maybe I should leave this discussion if it's about "E", then.
Doin' Warp 9 to the Great Kingdom of Adventure Games of Outer Space
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 10:42pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I remember my father as an old man bringing home the body of Cassius - a much beloved cat - and burying him under the lemon tree.
People sometimes need to rescue their pets from the misery and pain of a slow death from cancer. oes it really matter if the cat dies on a Monday instead of a Friday? The loss for the pet owner is the same but at least they can do this one last act of love and end the suffering.
Vets don't become hardened to this task, they just learn coping mechanisms. People who see the life cycle as part of their daily working lives, doctors, nurses, etc, understand the inevitability of death.
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| 25 NOV 2009 at 10:46pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Caroline (25 NOV 2009 10:41pm)
People sometimes need to rescue their pets from the misery and pain of a slow death from cancer. Does it really matter if the cat dies on a Monday instead of a Friday? The loss for the pet owner is the same but at least they can do this one last act of love and end the suffering.
Yes, thanks for that, Caroline. I think it probably means more to the owner (who knows?) in coping with the loss, that he stood by the poor creature and strove to do what he/she truly believed was best for the animal.
..and so you see, K515, that it is actually out of kindness that it is done; and the vets who do it are not hard - they are brave.
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| 26 NOV 2009 at 12:13am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I think when you take responsibility for another's life, such decisions are part and parcel of the burden of care.
Not so all the mongrels who buy pets for Xmas and then abandon them on the streets or to the shelters when they've outgrown their cuteness stage or they want to go on holidays. >
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| 26 NOV 2009 at 4:21pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Caroline (26 NOV 2009 12:13am)
I think when you take responsibility for another's life, such decisions are part and parcel of the burden of care.
Not so all the mongrels who buy pets for Xmas and then abandon them on the streets or to the shelters when they've outgrown their cuteness stage or they want to go on holidays. >
Yes, those are the culprits, as well as all the people (except for legitimate breeders, of course)who don't have their pets sterilized. Around here, if you want to adopt a pet from the SPCA/PETA, it is mandatory that you pay for the animals to be sterilized first. They do not allow pets to go out without having been sterilized first.
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| 26 NOV 2009 at 6:07pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (26 NOV 2009 4:21pm)
They do not allow pets to go out without having been sterilized first.
You mean, they have to wash their little hands?
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 26 NOV 2009 at 6:17pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Mark (26 NOV 2009 6:06pm)
Originally Posted By TheTraveler (26 NOV 2009 4:21pm)
They do not allow pets to go out without having been sterilized first.
You mean, they have to wash their little hands?
Sometimes I feel I can smack both your ears, Mark... [smiley=zombie.gif]
...and a happy Thanksgiving to you too.
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| 27 NOV 2009 at 1:59am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By TheTraveler (26 NOV 2009 6:17pm)
Originally Posted By Mark (26 NOV 2009 6:06pm)
Originally Posted By TheTraveler (26 NOV 2009 4:21pm)
They do not allow pets to go out without having been sterilized first.
You mean, they have to wash their little hands?
Sometimes I feel I can smack both your ears, Mark... [smiley=zombie.gif]
...and a happy Thanksgiving to you too.
Wouldn't that be paws?
Cheers, Terry
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| 27 NOV 2009 at 2:05am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Not with Mark. He never pauses for anything.
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| 27 NOV 2009 at 9:38am |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (27 NOV 2009 1:59am)
Wouldn't that be paws.
Naw, that'd be maw's.
Originally Posted By Ivinia (27 NOV 2009 2:04am)
Not with Mark. He never pauses for anything.
I pause for deletion. "Too harsh?" Delete.
I pause for refreshment. [collapses onto bed for violent dreams and shredding sheets, anytime of day]
I pause. I dream. I think. Then I go back to bed.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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