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| 15 OCT 2009 at 3:56pm | |
StilerJourneyman  Posts : 1461 Joined: 27 SEP 2004 Location: US, TN Status : Offline | Originally Posted By CrisGer (15 OCT 2009 7:12am) Most major market counties have a ratings system that fully complies the same way the movie industry does. I have no problem with a ratings system that makes it clear what audience the game and content is suitable for. However I do have a major problemw ith CEnsorship, and that is what Austrilia has. I would absolutely hate trying to play gamesi n Austrilia. As an adult to hae someone else take a choice that should fully be mine just seems rather wrong to me. As far as kids go, that's a parents job. You can't have the country take over a parents job completely. If the rating is on the box and the parent still buys it for their kid it's their choice. As far as violence goes, what I find funny about this sort of thing is that (at least here in the US) youth violence is DOWN, ti's been going down for a while now. However the media and things, just like with Movies and music, are using games as a scapegoat to try and put all the blame onto them. |
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| 15 OCT 2009 at 5:17pm | |
ThaumaturgeJourneyman Posts : 999 Joined: 11 MAY 2006 Status : Offline | As others have stated, I honestly don't believe that there's likely to be a strong causal relationship between violence in games and violence in reality, for most people, at least. Admittedly, I do imagine that there are likely to be those whose psyche is in some way vulnerable to such, and admit to some qualms about such people being exposed by accident or lack of caution... but in that case I have, I daresay, qualms about all violence in media, and wonder whether there are many things that may safely be consumed by the entire populace of Earth... Additionally, I wonder whether violence in media might not provide catharsis for some. Finally, note that even if a correlation is found, that may well not imply causation - for example, it may simply be that those inclined to violence are drawn to such games. Honestly, I also suspect that children are underestimated in at least some cases, especially in their ability to tell story from reality. Of course, this is opinion; while I have a little reading on the subject under my belt, I think, I don't think that it's anything assiduous; I don't remember encountering any particularly convincing evidence for the position of a causal relationship between violence in games and violence in reality. Naturally, I daresay that I have personal anecdotes, but don't consider those to be terribly valid (after all, my experiences are those of one individual, in a relatively limited number of cases, and thus may very well not be representative). I'll add that I think that I'm also a little bothered by censorship in general. Finally, if Yahtzee is correct in his assertion (I'll admit that I haven't checked assiduously), then Australia is not the only country without an "adult" classification, but at least not all of those others do not so refuse to allow entry to such games as Australia has refused classification; admittedly, I believe that some do refuse publication on other grounds. MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*ahem*
Sorry. |
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| 16 OCT 2009 at 1:17am | |
XerNosamSorcerer Apprentice  Posts : 339 Joined: 3 SEP 2007 Location: US, California Status : Offline | [smiley=hijacked.gif] I would like to hear from some more people who are playing Risen and get their thoughts. Playing: Skyrim: Dragonborn/Dawnguard; Torchlight 2; To The Moon; Far Cry 3 Finished: HomeFront; Far Cry 3; Dishonored Always Playing: Half Life 2 Looking Forward To: BioShock: Infinite Reading: BioShock: Rapture; SW: Revan |
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| 17 OCT 2009 at 4:11pm | |
| Deleted User | At first I did a double take when I saw that sex and drugs was the reason for having banned the game. Then I realised that there is use of alcohol (mostly beer) in the game, and mention is made of a kind of plant that is relaxing when you smoke it. Hmm, and in the one town there is also a brothel, and you can "rent" a lady, but nothing is shown. If a child was playing it, and asked, by chance, the "madam" of the brothel to recommend one of the women there to him, the player would merely think that you went to take a nap or a chat (the screen simply goes black for a few seconds) in one of their bedrooms and that a woman accompanied you into the room, nothing more. The "sex" aspect is left totally to the imaginiation and nothing coming close to them even touching is shown. When the woman you "had a chat with" leaves, she gives you a scroll that contains a spell, and that is about it. You could merely have been having a chat about your future and been given the scroll as a gift of goodwill. The sad part is that almost all the RPG's I can think of, have at least alcohol and maybe people smoking a pipe or whatever, if not then brothels... About the censorship. (Sorry Xernosam, but I have to say it). I have always been vehemently opposed to censorship in any media when it comes to adults. (Children are an entirely different matter, and I do support censorship for children.) However, when a third party decides what adults are allowed to view, read, hear or play, that becomes an odiously patronizing form of mind-control IMO. In fact, it would make my blood boil to think that some pompous person somewhere is trying to control my experience of life, and how I experience it... To speak your mind is one thing, but to attempt to take control of what others are allowed to do/say/hear/think, puts us right back into the Middle Ages where the Inquisition tortured you if you did not happen to share their exact (official version of their) views and beliefs. To just go completely off-topic for one more moment (sorry ) - I would presume then, that the well-done AG, Sherlock Holmes vs Jack the Ripper, would also have been banned in Australia. One wonders that they get to play any video games at all... |
| 18 OCT 2009 at 4:25am | |
CrisGerSchattenjger  Posts : 2539 Joined: 28 APR 2007 Location: US Status : Offline | I am sorry for going off topic on that issue of content and violence. Risen deserves the attention and focus ..it is a great game by a fine company. I will probably not see agreement in my lifetime with most adults after decades of TV and movies and now games like we have had. I just long for a gentle kind and courteous and loving world. I may just have to try to live that way and hope for change someday. I have learned sadly that freedom for anything does not necessarily support or encourage the best in ourselves or others. Admin 3D Worlds and Game Developers http://3dworldandgamedevelopers.blogspot.com |
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| 18 OCT 2009 at 6:08am | |
| Deleted User | Chris, I understand what you are saying, but sadly the very basis of our existence is violent. The creation we live in, is based upon the survival of the strongest and a hierarchical food-chain. Just to stay alive, we have to eat, and all creatures have to eat something else in order to remain alive, thereby destroying it. In any case, it seems that Risen was not banned due to violence, but due to references to "sex and drugs" in the game, references which is exactly the same, or even less than there was in Gothic 2. In fact Gothic 1 has a much larger focus on drugs (swampweed); and both Gothic 1 and 2 were good games, IMO, and it would be a travesty to have banned them. Of course, if Risen was banned, I presume the first two Gothics must also then have been banned for the same reasons, and let us not even mention The Witcher, which definitely has an even stronger focus on sex and drugs than Risen. Hmm, come to think of it, then I presume Drakensang and Jade Empire is also banned over there. I'm really starting to feel very sorry for Australian gamers. In any case - back to the "violence" issue. A lot of Risen is based on "politics" and non-violent gameplay, although of course it has its fair share of combat, just like any RPG of its kind. The violence, is, for instance, a lot less gratuitous than you find in Bethesda's Fallout 3. No gore and hacking off of bodyparts when you fight either humans or monsters. That's not what the game is about, and neither is it an endless succession of hack and slash, although, if you did want to let off steam by hacking and slashing monsters, there is a plentiful supply of them if you go out into the wilderness looking for them. I see violence in videogames like this: humans evolved in a very dangerous environment. When humans started being humans, we were definitely not top of the food chain at that stage. There were many monstrous predators and other nasties out to get us; from Sabre-toothed tigers and packs of dog/wolf-like creatures (later of course, all the big cats and wolves and wild dogs) to monstrous creatures swooping down from the sky to things like heynas and wild boars and crocodiles and sharks, and all your dangerous Bear/Bison/Rhino/Hippopotamus/Elephant-type creatures who are simply territorially agressive) to huge horrible insects and snakes and scorpions biting and stinging us. So killing, for humans, has not just been about food to eat, but about our very escape and survival from nasties that are out to get us. We have overcome most of these nasties in our modern world, and games like Risen and the Gothics and the latter Elder Scrolls, that have re-invented and re-introduced these nasties for us, gives us the opportunity to re-enact those instincts that were built into us for our own survival, in a safe digital environment. Note: by the above paragraphs, I am by no means condoning the extinction of any species on earth, except perhaps mosquitos and/or house flies, but all of the species in existence have their place in the sun, IMO, and in fact, I have always been a keen environmentalist. I have spoken out against Shark nets, for instance, due to the harm they cause, and do not enjoy the killing of even creatures like sharks, spiders or scorpions, let alone our more currently "socially acceptable" "pretty" species like lions and tigers. I am merely trying to highlight the fact that the capacity for violence has been a necessary component in the human genome, and historically an absolutely essential component for the survival of the human species. You cannot suddenly wish away a trait that has become largely redundant in a matter of an extremely short space of time. (+-80 years as opposed to 4 -6 million years of human evolution) It is there, and playing videogames that allow controlled amounts of violence, serves as a safe outlet for this already existing instinct. |
| 18 OCT 2009 at 3:58pm | |
ThaumaturgeJourneymanPosts : 999 Joined: 11 MAY 2006 Status : Offline | Hmm... Perhaps we should start a new thread for this topic? I'm inclined to continue, but hesitate to hijack this thread further... MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*ahem*
Sorry. |
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| 22 OCT 2009 at 1:24pm | |
InesrocksPrivate Detective  Posts : 682 Joined: 16 OCT 2008 Location: PT Status : Offline | @ Traveller when is Venetica coming out? ive been trying to search and I can't find any date Playing: Skyrim (ongoing) Last Finished: can't recall, been too long. |
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| 22 OCT 2009 at 1:55pm | |
| Deleted User | Posted by: Inesrocks Posted on: Today at 9:24am @ Traveller Oh, gosh, they've moved it on again from October to November... :'( See here |
| 22 OCT 2009 at 4:21pm | |
InesrocksPrivate DetectivePosts : 682 Joined: 16 OCT 2008 Location: PT Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (22 OCT 2009 1:55pm) aww.. im sad now.. but then again, guess ill have more time to play in november! oh and dragon age is due to release in like 10 days right? Playing: Skyrim (ongoing) Last Finished: can't recall, been too long. |
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| 22 OCT 2009 at 5:01pm | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Inesrocks (22 OCT 2009 4:20pm) Eek! How time has flown! I got some work in so I'm not even getting time to play Risen..., and I was really REALLY starting to enjoy it... ...now I might have an overlap with Dragon Age and Risen... I doubt I'll be able to resist starting Dragon Age even if Risen is not finished. Aaargh, the pressure us poor little gamers get towards the end of the year... :-/ (Can't decide if that's cool or not) : Well, thanks for reminding anyway... :-* I'd better go pay the full price of my pre-order for Dragon Age or I'll lose my discount. : |
| 2 NOV 2009 at 4:47pm | |
| Deleted User | Well, I finished Risen yesterday, and I must say that my main gripe is that the end came so suddenly, and that it's all over now. I've been feeling rather lost and empty the last day or so... Four more days to go before I can pick up my copy of Dragon Age. |
| 2 NOV 2009 at 5:11pm | |
InesrocksPrivate DetectivePosts : 682 Joined: 16 OCT 2008 Location: PT Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (2 NOV 2009 4:47pm) wow you finished it already?? you're definitely hardcore... im jealous lol is there any difference between US and european Dragon Age releases? not concerning the date, but about the game itself. Playing: Skyrim (ongoing) Last Finished: can't recall, been too long. |
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| 2 NOV 2009 at 5:22pm | |
ThaumaturgeJourneymanPosts : 999 Joined: 11 MAY 2006 Status : Offline | Hmm... So, if I may ask, what do you think was the most positive element of the game for you? (PS: I finally got my hands on the demo today, and intend to try it out later. Alas, the review in the magazine with which it came did leave some qualms, but we'll see how it goes...) MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*ahem*
Sorry. |
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| 3 NOV 2009 at 10:52am | |
| Deleted User | K. Just give me time to gather my thoughts, Thaum. (Since there were many postive points, and one or two negatives) |
| 3 NOV 2009 at 5:11pm | |
ThaumaturgeJourneymanPosts : 999 Joined: 11 MAY 2006 Status : Offline | Fair enough - I'd be glad to hear some positive comments, I think. ^_^ (And I'd like to read those negatives too, if you would, please.) MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*ahem*
Sorry. |
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| 5 NOV 2009 at 7:46pm | |
| Deleted User | Hmm, it's actually rather difficult to describe the game to someone unfamiliar with the Gothic games, because it has the exact-same gameplay mechanics and flavour. The Pirhana Bytes (Gothic) games, this one included, are well-known for the fact that you start off pretty weak, and have to make do with sticks and rags at first. In this game, you strand on a beach in rags, and you first weapon is a stick. The prologue also serves as a tutorial, so enemies are the little baby ones. Since Thaumaturge has been asking, I’ll write with focus on his taste for magery. : If you do decide to get the game, Thaumaturge, you'll have to settle for being a pure fighter at first, since you have to “gain favour” in order to become a mage. However, anybody, including non-mages, can do magic via use of scrolls. The repertoire of magic is quite functional (levitate, turn into some animal or beast, (small, in order to crawl through small holes, or a big animal that crushes everything in its path), make people laugh so they will forget they were angry at you, open locks or create light, and a few more) Becoming a mage, will primarily impact on your method of combat, which sadly is restricted in scope to fire, frost and magic bullets. Fire and frost is fun, bullets are boring. The mage's back-up melee style, is using staves - surprise, surprise! : The melee combat in general is hard as usual, but what’s rather different from the previous PB games, is that your melee “block” is much more effective, right from the start. Otherwise, it’s pretty much the same idea as before; enemies dodge and retreat devilishly and can “lock” attacks from your side, so you have to practise a bit getting your timing right. Archery, I found, is horrible in Risen, because shooting at the enemy alerts the one shot at as well as his buddies, and they immediately come charging at you full speed, so elevation from an out-of reach vantage point, is a must if you love archery. The thing that I loved about frost attacks, was that it was the only ranged attack that you could do, that not only would immobilize while dealing damage, but would not alert your target or his buddies. Even when the frozen state wears off, he will simply continue doing what he was doing before, and you can shoot him again.. The game in general: this game is not quite as freeform as its predecessors. Most quests (save for one or two random ones in the gameworld at large) are bound up with the MQ line. The story is…. Well, I’d found it promising at first, especially in the quest structure and the little mini-stories and intrigues of the first two chapters, but by the last two chapters it had basically devolved into a dungeon crawl- with mazes and puzzles and an item-hunt with rather generic combat. I will admit that I had found the ending rather abrupt, and the final boss-fight not a fitting crown on your achievements during the game. Thus, if taken in an overarching overview, I suppose it sounds rather unsatisfying, yet it is actually very satisfying as it is experienced from moment to moment. It is a very nice world to live and move around in. Graphics are good, and it feels like a living, breathing, interesting world. Whether you like roughing it out in the outback, or socializing around in town, or take part in all the back-stabbing politicks out in the swamps, the game will satisfy in all these regards. I never felt as if I was just mindlessly grinding to reach the end of the game. I was enjoying every single moment that I was in the game. Therefore, my biggest gripe with the ending, is that it brought an end to my experiences in this compelling world. Of course, there are many other things that one can chat about, which might take pages, and I might be wasting my time saying them as the might not be relevant to readers of the post. So if anyone wanted to know anything about more specific aspects of the game, please feel free to direct such specific questions , and I shall do my best to answer them. |
| 5 NOV 2009 at 8:02pm | |
ThaumaturgeJourneymanPosts : 999 Joined: 11 MAY 2006 Status : Offline | Thank you very much for all of your thoughts, Traveller - and for the specific mention of magecraft in the game. I appreciate the time, effort and thought, I hope. ^_^ Hmm... It does seem a little mixed. It does seem a pity that, to go by your report, the game loses story-quality towards the end. :/ As to magecraft, it sounds as though it might be reasonable (perhaps depending in part on what other spells are available, what their mana consumption rates are, and what restrictions may be placed by them or on their use), and I doubt that I'd overmuch mind starting off as a warrior with the aim of working my way towards magery. I do have a specific question, prompted by a review in a magazine: how did you find the controls? Were they intuitive, and reasonably well-implemented? o you think it likely that a player who has not before played a Gothic game would find them intuitive? MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*ahem*
Sorry. |
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| 5 NOV 2009 at 8:35pm | |
| Deleted User | Oh, the controls were perfect! So intuitive that you never had to think about them. The game makes use of the classic WASD and mouse-look system. Nothing even close to the clunky controls in Gothic 1 and much more effortless than the controls in G2. In fact, :-[ , one of the reasons that I managed to finish the game so soon, is that I'd increased the FPS to almost double (sometimes more than double) the normal rate (made it look like one of those 20's movies, and had to slow down a bit for combat) which tended to fry my GPU, but was great fun, I love going fast, and I still felt in full control of my character! The UI was slightly more irritating than in Gothic 3, in that pressing Esc would not take you immediately to the saving screen, but the main menu which would require one more step, though this is the case with many games, so no worries really. Along with Gothic 3 IMO it also has the best inventory system, with everything very neatly classified. (Not sure if you're aware that you have a limitless inventory in the PB games. Yes, you heard correctly - there is NO LIMIT to the amount of things that you can carry!!!! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) Re the use of mana: mana only gets used up for battle, not for scrolls, (unless it was so little that I didn't even notice it, for the scrolls). I had found mana consumption to be reasonable in the sense of that you find tons of plants that restore your mana again, and if you learn the alchemy skill, you can make potions that are even more effective. Potions can also be bought from alchemists, of course. I must caution though, that it's not easy to do combat purely through magical means, it is best to have a good weapon as a back-up for in case they get up close when your mana has run out. So even so-called "mages" need to carry their (very effective, I must say- because of its long reach) staff with them. The executioners staff also has blades attached, btw. Part of learning how to become a mage, is learning to create magic scrolls by using runes as a template, and adding certain ingredients in the "recipe" for that spell. So you end up writing your own spell scrolls. I'm not sure if I tapped the full potential of the variety of spells available, as I had not managed to find a huge variety of spells, but what was nice was that you tend to use almost all the spells you have, which is more than I can say for a few other games where you get spells so esoteric that you end up wondering what you would ever use them for. Buffing is not done via spells, but via rings and amulets, which you can find, buy or steal or earn through quests - you can also make them yourself if you have the smithing skill, or have a smith make them for you, if you have the neccessary ingredients. Permanent stat boosts can also be achieved by eating certain plants, which when made into potions can achieve even bigger perma boosts. |
| 5 NOV 2009 at 8:54pm | |
ThaumaturgeJourneymanPosts : 999 Joined: 11 MAY 2006 Status : Offline | Very interesting... and sounding more appealing indeed, I believe! ^_^ The reason, as I recall, that I mentioned the controls was that the aforementioned review indicated that they were "clumsy" - but then, I believe that that was the console version, which I have subsequently read to be more buggy than the PC version. As to the spells, I believe that my concern with regards to mana was because, having read about the woes of archery (which I think would currently be likely to be my preferred fallback) and of the levitation spell, I thought to cast levitate and then shoot my foes from above. Of course, the viability of this tactic may rely on a few matters: the mana cost of levitation, whether one may fire while so lofted, whether one's opponents have ranged weapons (and the AI to spot one while in the air), etc. Of course, if that doesn't work, other strategies may be available, depending on the list of available spells. Oh, and don't knock esoteric spells too quickly: towards the end of Arx Fatalis I found a spell that raised a roughly normal-door-wide barrier to be rather useful, allowing me to kill opponents who I recall as being both fast and tough by trapping them beyond a door (using one barrier for normal doors and two for double doors) and then either casting through the barrier or creating a fire field on the other side. I think that I'd rather have a wide range, with many options to suit my manner of thinking, than be too heavily restricted. That said, I don't think that you've thus far mentioned much that's too untoward regarding the magic in Risen. ^_^ MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*ahem*
Sorry. |
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| 5 NOV 2009 at 9:13pm | |
| Deleted User | Well, let me rather disappoint you a bit then. Unfortunately you cannot levitate long enough to shoot your enemies as you have described. In fact, the levitation is rather disappointing in that it runs out very quickly, especially if you move vertically. Also, I doubt you can equip a weapon while levitating, as the character holds his arms in a certain position. The magic in Morrowind is much better, btw, and you can even levitate permanently and to a great height, in Morrowind. [smiley=angel_smiley.gif] You can shoot your enemies as much as you like while levitating in Morrowind, too. [smiley=evil.gif] |
| 6 NOV 2009 at 5:28pm | |
ThaumaturgeJourneymanPosts : 999 Joined: 11 MAY 2006 Status : Offline | Aah, I feared that it might be so - I think that such restrictions are fairly common in levitate spells (in what I recall offhand of my experience, at least). Arx Fatalis, at least, had a pretty permissive magic system, I think. That said, depending on the rest of the spell-roster, some interesting tactics may yet come to mind - I wonder whether I shouldn't look up a spell-list... MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*ahem*
Sorry. |
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| 7 NOV 2009 at 8:34am | |
| Deleted User | There's a very good mix of gamer reviews here: http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8465&page=4 I find myself agreeing with most of them. I linked to a page which had a lot of comments from people who chose to be mages. In particular, see Shadow Moses's post. |
| 8 NOV 2009 at 8:20pm | |
ThaumaturgeJourneymanPosts : 999 Joined: 11 MAY 2006 Status : Offline | Thank you very much, Traveller. ^_^ Hmm... Okay, I think that I'm going to skip Risen. I'll admit that I'm still somewhat in two minds, having read opinions expressing disappointment as well as ones expressing great liking, I believe. Overall, perhaps better to wait to see this one in a bargain bin one day. Thank you again for your help. ^_^ MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*ahem*
Sorry. |
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| 8 NOV 2009 at 8:44pm | |
| Deleted User | You're welcome Thaumaturge. All in all, I think you're making a wise decision, since your preferred style of play is via magic and palying a mage role. On the other hand, like many other players of the game had also mentioned, PB are excellent in that they manage to create living, breathing worlds. All in all, I think that Risen would be your best and least buggy bet for just at least experiencing this very interesting yet pretty much realistic kind of world of theirs, (and certainly graphically one of the most attractive), so yes, do pick it up if and when you manage to find it at a very reasonable price. |
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