| 10 AUG 2009 at 4:05pm |
desertjediIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 26
Joined: 15 MAR 2006
Status : Online | If you want, think of Vista as the 3-year beta test for Windows 7.
The reason that so much is "ready to go" with Win 7 is that so much of the OSes are the same and 7 is using the same drivers that have matured with Vista.
When Vista came out, pretty much nothing was ready (mostly in terms of drivers) and it really affected the rollout.
This rollout (Win 7) looks likes it's going to go extremely smooth. But due to the similarities between Vista and 7, I'm not surprised at all.
I also am doing the XP-to-7 route, or more likely, I will dual-boot them for maximum game compatibility.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 4:11pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2350
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | My machine runs WinVista SP1, and while there are some things which annoy me about it, my experience has been quite positive. My friend's wife's notebook runs stock, original WinVista, though, and it really is a nightmare. I spent three hours trying to get her machine set up for a new network---over ethernet! And I usually know what I'm doing. Argh.
Looking forward to Win7, though. I've two copies on pre-order at Amazon. I could download a torrent of the release version (it's not even that large), but I'd rather wait, I think.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 4:18pm |
| Deleted User | /me clings obsessively to her XP. She can still remember how traumatic the changover was from Win 98 to Win 2000, and from Win 2000 to XP.....
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 5:23pm |
InesrocksPrivate Detective
Posts : 682
Joined: 16 OCT 2008
Location: PT
Status : Offline | I've used Win 95, 98, Millenium Edition, XP and Vista.
Vista is my favourite... and I know im not part of a majority in there.
Playing: Skyrim (ongoing)
Last Finished: can't recall, been too long.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 6:03pm |
AShadowWalkerPrivate Detective
Posts : 776
Joined: 6 AUG 2009
Status : Online | Hello There!
I had a laptop that I burned literally because of the gaming. I am thinking of getting another one. It will cost me around $7,000. In other words a laptop Borg technology gaming monster.
I still used and will use again Windows 98, because of all my games.
I really know my way around it, and can't wait for the day that I can afford bying an old 486 to be able to give a lot of my old DOS games a perfect environment in which to run.
I know, call me weird, I know I can do it with more modern Operating Systems, but I love the old nostalgia DOS, port wrangling, and resource management midnight runs.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 6:23pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | [size=14]I try to keep up on the various Windows OS's (thru 'power-user' mags such as MaximumPC) even though I never update to a new version unless something forces me to.
My take for the moment:
Windows XP SP2 or SP3 is a wonderful OS- by far the best of all the Windows OS's over the years. It is reasonably tightly-coded (especially compared to Vista) with fast loading & shut-down and by now is compatible with almost anything thrown at it. People who don't find any of this to be true usually have bloated registrys, far too many programs installed & far too many programs loading at one time (including pseudo-handholding crapola that you can see being loaded in msconfig).
Windows Vista was an absolute disaster in its first year, but is now far more stable with SP1, but it still runs s-l-o-w, still has compatibility issues and has an interface that assumes that you are brain dead and/or that you want to sit on its lap and call it momma.
Windows 7 has a much improved interface and appears to be more stable, but we won't know for sure for some time. It appears to load and shut down more quickly than Vista, but tests (rigid tests usually involving gaming particularly with the most demanding games such as Crysis) show that, otherwise, it doesn't run much faster than Vista when all is said & done.
I will be sticking with WinXP until Kim Jong Il and Hillary Clinton go out on a date.
[size=14]Oops, maybe I better rethink that! Take a look at Kim Jong eyeing Hillary in her latest pantsuit!
[img]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff109/sirdaved/JA%20Uploads/KimJongIl.jpg[/img]
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 7:31pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5587
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | I've had so few issues with Vista that it makes me wonder what all the fuss is about. The interface is about as easy and straight forward as it gets - you're not saying you think it should be more difficult I hope. Maybe a specific example of those functions that assume you're Brain Dead would lend a clue? I'm not saying there aren't any (I just haven't seen them pointed out).
As to start up time, Vista is only a little slower than Windows 7 - it takes me 20 to 30 seconds to be up and running on my Vista PC's.
I will upgrade to 7 as soon as I can get a hold of a copy, but for now Vista is just fine for me.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 8:09pm |
| Deleted User | [size=16][font=Times New Roman]In the last couple of years 0f the 1970's I taught myself 6502-Macchine-Code ( You not only had to learn how to use bytes, but also how to utilize every bit since the maximum RAM available was only one KILOBYTE. Fortunately maybe in those far off days there were only 8 bits to manipulate in every byte !! )
In the first couple of years 0f the 1980's I taught myself Assembler. Later on in that decade I learnt Basic and also a fairly unknown educational computer language for youngsters called "Logo".
Then ome Pascal but not too advanced and also the Apple OS.
Then over to the IBM --- I became very proficient in DOS.
Then on to Windows 3.x and a one of the first users of Win 95 --- and later 98.
Skipped 2000 etc. -----
FINALLY Windows-XP.
ENOUGH --- FAR MORE THAN ENOUGH ACTUALLY !
I have not the tiniest desire to learn the intricacies of ANY other OS UNLESS I AM QUITE RELUCTANTLY FORCED TO !!!
You can call me an old stick-in-the-mud for continuing with XP as long as I possibly can (I AM nearly 85 y.o.), but since it ain’t broke, I’m not going to abandon it !!!
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 8:17pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1655
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | I feel about XP as I did about 98. Comfortable, in charge, and protective. When I need 7 to run things I like to do, I'll get it. Right now, naaaa.
_________________
Exercise your vision.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 8:21pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (10 AUG 2009 7:31pm)
I've had so few issues with Vista that it makes me wonder what all the fuss is about. The interface is about as easy and straight forward as it gets - you're not saying you think it should be more difficult I hope. Maybe a specific example of those functions that assume you're Brain Dead would lend a clue? I'm not saying there aren't any (I just haven't seen them pointed out).
[size=14]
User Account Control for one- handholding taken to the extreme. It is turned by default and is extremely intrusive. You & I would relatively quickly find the way to turn it off, but IMO most people would have trouble knowing that it could be turned off and/or knowing how to do so.
IMO, the degree to which one has trouble with Vista depends on what their requirements are. But, no matter what computer mag you read, the problems with Vista over XP are legion; it's not even a close call. (I do have one desktop Vista computer so I'm not just going on what magazines say.) One problem with Vista is its overall bloat w/o any obvious reason/benefit for the bloat. For instance, Vista has been released on computers as small as UMPCs and the result was pathetic- people had to hack the hardware to add more memory to beef up performance. The same machines ran fine on XP. I even wrote an article on how to convert a Samsung Q1U to WinXP by using a WinXP Acronis TrueImage c-drive image from another Q1 to overwrite the Vista c-drive of a Q1. One could say that that wasn't the fault of Vista ie. being released on 'underpowered' computers. On the other hand, one (such as me) would say that that would be all very well and good if Vista provided major benefits over XP- which it doesn't.
In any event, XP held not only its own (with regular SP updates), but its name for 6 years while Vista lasted little more than 2 years and essentially is losing its name- for good reason. One example of the blowback from this is that while when Vista came out, XP computers continued to sell well and in fact, people (like me) looked specifically for computers that ran XP, not Vista, you won't find that happening with Vista- IMO once Win7 comes out (assuming it is reasonably stable) Vista will be known as a dirty word competing with the likes of Windows ME as the worst of the Windows OS's.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 9:08pm |
| Deleted User | [size=16]~~ InlandAZ ~~
I have no stats to prove anything. .. and I havenot touched Vista myself so I can give no personal opinions !
But every single person (not TOO many I admit) who has used Vista has had nothing but bad words about it... frequently VERY bad words.
You appear to be the exception that is said to exist within every rule !
How is it that so many people, including some Companies that I know, have continued with XP and refused to switch iover to Vista ?
And how come the "life" of Vista has been so VERY short ?
I can't imagine that Microsoft would have scrapped it so rapidly if it was any good --- considering the large financial loss, to say nothing of a bad name
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 9:56pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By LenG (10 AUG 2009 3:57pm)
[size=16]One of my granddaughters had to replace her hard-disk and they installed the beta of the "7" OS.
Am I pleased that I never wasted precious limited time or energy on "Vista" and utilized both for more productive purposes, sticking to the 'old' "XP".
From every person I talked to, none 'interconnected' in any way, I received the idntical opinion, that "Vista" was a total catastrophe !! [smiley=crazy.gif][[smiley=devil_smiley_grintail.gif]
While I won't start an arguement here let me remind you Windows 7 is just Vista SP3. In fact as someone who used Vista since it launched I can tell you it's identical, with some tweaks and the new taskbar.
The instant search and other useful features were all a part of Vista. I work in IT and we've been using Vista for almost 2 years at work - trust me I know what I'm talking about here.
Vista's hate is mostly FUD, you admitted yourself you've never used it. Yet you claim it's a failure. It's opinions like that which spread false information and untrue statements.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 10:26pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5540
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | I had planned to go straight from XP to Windows 7, probably when I was ready for a whole new system a couple years from now. But the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry, and all that. My motherboard blew out two months ago, and I ended up scrambling to get a interim computer, one that happened to have Vista. I was leery of Vista before I used it, but I have to say I like what I've seen of it. I had none of the dreaded driver problems I heard about, and everything works about as smoothly as it did under XP. The UAC feature was the one real annoying thing about it, but that was easily turned off.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 11:19pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5587
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | User Account Control for one- handholding taken to the extreme.
Actually, the recommended method to run XP is nearly identical to that of Vista - the User has a limited account, and the administrator has total control (and only logs in when maintenance is required). Because few choose to run in the recommended and decidedly more secure mode, Microsoft decided to make it the default. I wouldn't refer to that as designing the interface on behalf of the Brain Dead however, because all you have to do is elevate your program to get the job done. The UAC serves to reduce the number of unattended backdoor Trojans installed, which sounds like a good thing to me (you know, that other thing folks like to point fingers at Microsoft for). On the up side, it's good to see that hackers have finally moved on and targeted other software vendors.
It's just a default, and easily disabled for the fearless
One problem with Vista is its overall bloat
Actually after applying the last service pack - I'd have to call XP and Vista nearly identical. I do agree however, that the original release was sluggish at times.
You do recall the years of XP trashing that took place right? That's basically how I see the majority of the negative Vista posts. Obviously not all are in that vein, but most tend to be.
For what it’s worth, my 8 year old granddaughter has a Vista PC – and absolutely loves it. There’s something to be said about not having preconceived notions.
You appear to be the exception that is said to exist within every rule !
That's what mom says.
How is it that so many people, including some Companies that I know, have continued with XP and refused to switch iover to Vista ?
And how come the "life" of Vista has been so VERY short ?
I can't imagine that Microsoft would have scrapped it so rapidly if it was any good --- considering the large financial loss, to say nothing of a bad name
My own employer is among those that are reluctant to migrate. I've heard every story in the book, and yet... my work station serves to show the technical naysayers that maybe they don’t know everything after all (and maybe there’s a whole lot of we heard it was bad and believed it going on. I really can’t say Len.
Trust me, they’re going to mess their pants when I order Windows 7.
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 11:34pm |
| Deleted User | [size=14][size=14]~~ Avatar_58 ~~ ... While I won't start an arguement here let me remind you Windows 7 is just Vista SP3. In fact as someone who used Vista since it launched I can tell you it's identical, with some tweaks and the new taskbar. -------
--------------- Vista's hate is mostly FUD, you admitted yourself you've never used it. Yet you claim it's a failure. It's opinions like that which spread false information and untrue statements.
(1) But you ARE starting an argument --- not simply an opinion !
(2) I did NOT claim that VISTA is a failure. Please read properly & logically what I wrote. How could I since as I said (and you sought fit to repeat) I have not used it .
I said that every single person I personally had talked to siad that it was a failure --- I also mentioned that I had no stats on the matter.
(3) If as you say "let me remind you Windows 7 is just Vista SP3. In fact as someone who used Vista since it launched I can tell you it's identical, with some tweaks and the new taskbar.", and jf (2) above is correct, then I shall have to avoid "7" as well (at least until I am FORCED willy nilly otherwise) and just stick to updated Windows-XP!
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 11:50pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16553
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | As someone who easily qualifies for the title 'computer brain dead' I appreciate things being easy to find and do. Ever since I upgraded to XP I've been flying this pc blind. I don't know where anything is.
Mind you, because I tinkered so freely with my W98 it often broke down.... :-/
What I, and those friends I have asked, do not like, is the new versions of Word, Xcell and Powerpoint that come with Office 2007. The interface looks suitable for kindy level; operations we once found easily are now either gone or well hidden. I run both versions on separate h/disks. New versions ought to be improvements or they shouldn't bother. >
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| 10 AUG 2009 at 11:57pm |
| Deleted User | [size=16]Since I hven't even TRIED VISTA, I wonder whether it's REALLY as bad as so many people have claimed, or is it a case of "Give a dog a bad name and hang him" ?
I don't know !
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| 11 AUG 2009 at 1:05am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | [size=14]I was forced to accept Vista when I ordered my HP Touchsmart since no WinXP version was available. I hated it from the get-go. Now that could easily be nothing more than an anecdotal example- certainly not enough to indict the OS.
However, I say again, that the major computer mags (PC Mag, PC World & Maximum PC) have the same overall negative feeling about Vista and they weren't talking that way when it first came out ie. they were expecting it to be better than XP. They do agree on one thing- that Vista has decidely moved up a notch with the introduction of SP1
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 11 AUG 2009 at 1:22am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5587
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | However, I say again, that the major computer mags
Now, remind me again - why don't we listen to the major mags for gaming reviews?
They do agree on one thing- that Vista has decidely moved up a notch with the introduction of SP1
I've pretty much stated the same about SP1 (and let’s not forget SP2) - but let take a stroll back to the good ole days, just after XP was released... Oh yeah, now I remember - those same mags were ranking on XP, and promising to forever hold on to their Windows 98 PC's (because they were so much faster).
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| 11 AUG 2009 at 1:24am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (10 AUG 2009 9:56pm)
Originally Posted By LenG (10 AUG 2009 3:57pm)
[size=16]One of my granddaughters had to replace her hard-disk and they installed the beta of the "7" OS. Am I pleased that I never wasted precious limited time or energy on "Vista" and utilized both for more productive purposes, sticking to the 'old' "XP". From every person I talked to, none 'interconnected' in any way, I received the idntical opinion, that "Vista" was a total catastrophe !! [smiley=crazy.gif][[smiley=devil_smiley_grintail.gif]
While I won't start an arguement here let me remind you Windows 7 is just Vista SP3. In fact as someone who used Vista since it launched I can tell you it's identical, with some tweaks and the new taskbar. The instant search and other useful features were all a part of Vista. I work in IT and we've been using Vista for almost 2 years at work - trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Vista's hate is mostly FUD, you admitted yourself you've never used it. Yet you claim it's a failure. It's opinions like that which spread false information and untrue statements.
[size=14]Oh c'mon! You're raising doubts about your own credibility when you claim that negative comments about Vista are de facto false information and untrue statements. I have a Vista computer, several XP computers and a couple of Win98SE computers and I keep up with subscriptions to all 3 major computer mags and negative feelings about Vista have been rampant (and happen to coincide with my views about it). The one thing that has 'reclaimed' the OS to the point that it is now more stable and less finicky is SP1.
Any new OS is greeted with skepticism just as WinXP was, but WinXP proved itself by the 2nd year after SP1. That isn't true of Vista which is exactly why Microsoft is dumping the Vista name as fast as it can. Windows 7 may or may not be Vista SP3- that remains to be seen- but if Microsoft (and the rest of the industry) saw it that way, it certainly would not be getting rid of the Vista name. And MS wouldn't have been giving support of WinXP a reprieve until June, 2010, 8 months after the release of Windows 7 if Vista was as great as you're implying.
All the more power to anyone who enjoys Vista with SP1, but don't think that the last 2 years of Vista problems has been a figment of people's imagination!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 11 AUG 2009 at 2:26am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (11 AUG 2009 1:22am)
However, I say again, that the major computer mags
Now, remind me again - why don't we listen to the major mags for gaming reviews?
They do agree on one thing- that Vista has decidely moved up a notch with the introduction of SP1
I've pretty much stated the same about SP1 (and let’s not forget SP2) - but let take a stroll back to the good ole days, just after XP was released... Oh yeah, now I remember - those same mags were ranking on XP, and promising to forever hold on to their Windows 98 PC's (because they were so much faster).
[size=14]And Microsoft stuck with WinXP for 6-7 years as the main OS and is continuing support for it (due to public demand) well into 2010 while Microsoft is dumping the Vista name after 2 years.
(Still trying to figure out how (lack of) the ability of computer gaming magazines to review a niche genre such as AGs can be compared to the ability of magazines such as PC Mag, PcWorld & MaximumPC to review Windows OSs, something they have always done well.)
(OK Inland, my friend, are you going to go all in on this one or fold like a cheap suit? SirDave 'Negreanu' )
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 11 AUG 2009 at 2:36am |
DajjerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 84
Joined: 1 AUG 2009
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Inesrocks (10 AUG 2009 5:23pm)
I've used Win 95, 98, Millenium Edition, XP and Vista.
Vista is my favourite... and I know im not part of a majority in there.
maybe not in the majority but you're not alone. I go all the way back to the dos's. And Vista has been my favorite also. Rock solid for me, never any problems and it's also pretty.
My laptop however is an XP and it will stay that way. I have way too many older games to play.
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| 11 AUG 2009 at 2:55am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5587
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Microsoft is moving on because it's the smart business thing to do -- The Mojave Experiment summed it pretty well when it came to the “I don't like Vista” crowd.
If you don't care for the OS, then don't run it - there were thousands of XP holdouts for a number of years (and now we see the same reasoning applied to Vista -- on nearly the same timeline).
Windows 7 has been handled quite differently from the get go -- give it away for free you say? For a year? Why these folks are just making one smart decision after another. Business will be more apt to bring it in the house because of features like XP mode (which is nearly accomplished in the same way under Vista). And all the free beta testing is such a plus.
As to mags… well… they do what sells… Those you mention are highly respected for the most part – but that doesn’t mean I have to take their word as the gospel. I find them interesting but I still form my own opinion.
Negreanu? Oh dear - I won't play poker with that man... He does have a hell of a talent though.
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| 11 AUG 2009 at 3:48am |
desertjediIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 26
Joined: 15 MAR 2006
Status : Online | Both perspectives are "credible". A lot of peeps had a lot of trouble with Vista when it first came out. Many run it just fine now that it's received some service packs.
I do think we'll agree on the fact that Vista was a financial failure and yes, M$ will try to put the whole Vista thing behind them ASAP. I think Windows 7 will be very successful even at the start - like we said, it's built on the blood, sweat and tears of Vista.
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