Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (1 MAR 2003 10:05pm)
Was this monk a Christian monk? Because if he was I doubt it that he run out of paper...more probably he torn them apart in purpose.

I was studying about the ancient Greek and the Viking mythology about a year ago in one cultural course I was taking, and I found out great crimes that the church had comitted to both these mythologies.

But you don't want me to extend on the subject because it could take lots of time.... I was actually a christian some years ago, but after studying a little bit more of history I understood my mistake and now I am an atheist. Maybe there is a higher being but I do not believe in jesus being divine and all this hocus-pocus.

Originally Posted By Petter_Holmberg (1 MAR 2003 9:55pm)
Had that monk not run out of parchment, we could theoretically have had colonies on Mars or humanoid robots or whatever thing that's hundreds of years into the future today. Or not... :

Originally Posted By MichalN (1 MAR 2003 10:31pm)

I'm quite certain he didn't run out of paper. Because they were writing on vellum

And it was common practice to reuse old books as writing material. Since the monk most likely didn't speak Greek, I don't see why he would dismantle the book "on purpose". It was simply Greek to him

Kinda makes ya wonder... how did Vikings or Greeks treat other mythologies? Were they all nice and tolerant?

Ah. I knew you could make a good commie

If you studied history like you said, you must have noticed that atheists committed just as many crimes as Christians. And they were not above destroying Christian churches and books.

You have to realize that atheism is as much religion as any other; you can only believe that there is no God, but there is no proof. And most religions are not too friendly to competition...

Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (1 MAR 2003 11:06pm)
And there you have it, MichalN not only knows everything about all the religions on the world, but he also know what language this monk was speaking. Since you are the historian here maybe you also know that Greek and Latin used to be in the ancient world what English and Spanish is today for the first and for the second if he was in Greece where he probably was to acquire the certain book I am quite certain that he spoke the language.

And how did he happen to come across the book by the way? Did Pythagoras gave it to him for xmas maybe?

Huuhhh...atheism a religion. Do you know that a religion needs a dogma? Atheism has no dogma.

How did Greeks and Vikings treat other mythologies? I don't know...why don't you tell me, since you know everything.

I also like you certainty of the extent of crimes that atheists have commited and that it is the same with the ones the christians have done

You are really funny, if you knew what you were talking about I might even had taken you seriously...

Btw the problem is not only with the Christian religion. All religions are methods to control people...

because muslims would not take a plane and throw it on WTC and American soldiers would not throw bombs on Afghanistan to kill people they don't even know for Bush and for Bin Ladin but they would do it for god and for allah...

Originally Posted By narji (2 MAR 2003 12:20am)
Gee wish I'd seen that documentary here Petter.  It may have been shown of course.  Sounds really interesting (even with Michal & Dimi having a go at each other)

Originally Posted By MichalN (2 MAR 2003 12:05am)

[...1...]
Not very likely. I would imagine that the book was not an original but rather a copy at any rate. And books did tend to end up in the strangest places.
[...2...]
Oh yes it does. The dogma is "There is no God". And just like religious dogmas, it is a dogma because it is unprovable. You have to take it on faith.
[...3...]
No, I don't know this. I just thought that since you were complaining about how Christians were picking on Vikings, you knew for a fact that Vikings did nothing of the sort.
[...4...]
You surprise me! Or maybe not... but I think your view of religions is a little too simplified. Do you really think every American is a conservative Christian? And every muslim a religious fanatic?

So tell me, when there was - for instance - Civil War in the US, that was for God too? Even though both sides believed in the exact same God, were members of the same Church(es) and their differences were political and economic?

Dogma is a belief, and atheism has no belief

Originally Posted By InlandAZ (2 MAR 2003 12:55am)

Now that's an interesting concept Dimitri - The belief that God does not exist, is exempt from being defined as a belief...

Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (2 MAR 2003 1:12am)
I think there are a lot of misunderstanding coming out of use of Greek words (dogma, atheism) in the English vocabulary.

If you ask atheists what do they believe in, most of them will answer 'I don't believe in anything' and not 'I believe there is no god'. If you read my first post I said that there might be a higher being, so I don't exclude any chance but I don't believe in anything. I just have no dogma...

Confused ?  

Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (2 MAR 2003 12:45am)
1. If it was a copy how come we didn't find the original before?

2. Dogma is a belief, and atheism has no belief, you do not believe in anything.

3. Christians went to Scandinavia (and not only Scandinavia) and they made the old religion illegal and anything that was connected to the old religion became also illegal.

Should I remind you maybe that the Olympic games were cancelled by King Theodosius a christian king because they were considered pagan?

let's not even go to the crusades or to the inquisition.

The Christian movement, however, encouraged people to ABANDON THEIR ANCESTRAL CUSTOMS and break the sacred bonds of family, society and nation." (The Origin . . . by Elaine Pagels pg.114)

Religion is intertwined with culture, so if you want to destroy one's religion you have to destroy the culture first. So I'll let you guess by yourself what did Christianity do.

I could even talk to you about how the testament is a racist book and how it calls Greek people dogs in one part.

4. Did I say that all those who believe in a religion are fanatics? Or did I say that all wars happen for religions?

Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (2 MAR 2003 1:12am)
I just have no dogma...

Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (2 MAR 2003 1:23am)
I stand corrected...and not only that but I have to congratulate you for your vocabulary skills... it's just that I didn't know this word existed in English as well, and I thought that agnostics fell also in the atheist category when speaking in English...

Originally Posted By narji (2 MAR 2003 5:24am)
Don't know how you guys who all have such totally different cultures, languages and backgrounds have really a so much better grasp of the English lanuage than most people with English speaking backgrounds.

It says a lot for your upbringing and schooling and not b**** much for ours.   I have a Portuguese sister-in-law who speaks about 5 languages - makes me quite ashamed of our school system in Australia and New Zealand.  Woops, now I'm totally off the "off-topic" topic.