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| 17 MAY 2009 at 6:44pm |
rainynight65Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 2
Joined: 17 MAY 2009
Status : Online | Good Evening (CAT time zone)
There are a few things I need to say before I get to the actual purpose of my post. I am a long-term gamer, probably not as dedicated as some, but I have made my way through a number of genres in the years, starting with adventure games and still loving a good story more than anything. Favourites of mine include the Gabriel Knight series, the Tex Murphy series, The Longest Journey (and Dreamfall), just to name a few. I have been a reader of JA+ reviews and articles for years and have always appreciated them. What I am going to say from here on is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone, nor is it supposed to become a flame war. I also realize that I am probably a it late with this, but nonetheless, I need to say it
Aya, your review of Culpa Innata is possibly one of the most disappointing reviews I have read on this site. Purely for two reasons. Firstly the completely inaccurate and misleading information about the game's graphic quality, and secondly, for the absolutely inappropriate comparison with a classic like The Longest Journey.
I am the last person on earth who gives a damn about a game's graphics, and I can certainly live with the quality provided in CI (or lack thereof). But to describe the graphics in the game as detailed and believable is nothing short of a lie. The environments are dull and ugly, the character animations are clunky, and I have seen better facial animations in early 3D adventures such as Gabriel Knight 3. To exalt yourself into a description like in your review, and at the same time call other 3D games fake, comes across like you've never really played 3D games before. One only needs to look at a game like Mass Effect to know what is possible these days, and no, I don't expect a game with a budget like CI to deliver that kind of quality. But don't make it sound like honey when all there is is some stale water.
Secondly, to go and say that CI is what TLJ fans were waiting for, is asking for flak, at least from where I stand. I loved TLJ, and I also loved Dreamfall, purely for the quality and presentation of the story. Both games had me hooked after 5 minutes and I did not want to stop playing. CI now has got a few hours of playtime, but there still is absolutely nothing that compels me to keep playing, except for the fact that I spent $10 and more than 3GB of my precious 15GB monthly limit on it. I haven't played every single adventure game of the last few years or so, but of the ones that I did play (Secret Files, Overclocked, Moment of Silence, Still Life, among others), CI certainly ranks at the very bottom of preference.
Don't get me wrong, tastes are different and I appreciate the fact that you like the game. But even with all gushing and such, a review has to be realistic and contain a certain amount of objectivity (I have written reviews long enough to know that there is no such thing as a 100% objective review). Yours unfortunately didn't.
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| 17 MAY 2009 at 6:59pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | As someone who claims to have written reviews for long enough, you sure missed the fact that reviews are a matter of opinion not fact.
You obviously disagree with Aya's comparison to TLJ and the graphics, but that doesn't make it inappropriate or wrong.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 17 MAY 2009 at 7:00pm |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | I agree, at least for the most part. I agree with 49 out of 50 reviews at JA+, but this was one that got it wrong. I bought the game on the 'must play' recommendation here on JA+, but was hugely dissapointed.
I also have played almost every game that is out there. CI does not even make the middle ground, it is below average. I was really surprised by the difference between review and reality.
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| 17 MAY 2009 at 7:02pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Cultura (17 MAY 2009 7:00pm)
I also have played almost every game that is out there. CI does not even make the middle ground, it is below average. I was really surprised by the difference between review and reality.
In your opinion.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 17 MAY 2009 at 8:37pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Wow... 2 people, 2 opinions. Who'd a thought such a thing was possible :
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| 17 MAY 2009 at 10:49pm |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 593
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Where I was surprised at the difference between review and reality (as I've mentioned in another thread) was at the dialogue continuity problems.
As this is clearly a dialogue-based game, I'm puzzled that the reviewers didn't pick up on the clear continuity glitches in conversation (ie people acting shocked at information that Phoenix had already told them either earlier in that conversation, or sometimes in a prior discussion) as well as the stilted dialogues- there was a discussion about translation issues in the Tunguska games, well how about CI? The 'casual' convos between Phoenix and her best buddy Sandra just didn't ring true at all!
There were also continuity issues like Phoenix mentioning her boss had given her an idea when they hadn't even spoken at that point... Or the lack of exploration (despite the fact that one of the reviews clearly mentions that there are lots of places to explore)- I found that there wasn't much to see. You either visited characters in their office (literally one room) or you roamed around an empty (both day and night) Pyramid. So much for the bustling heart of the Union!
All in all there were lots of issues that were very noticeable to me, and that the reviewers didn't pick up at all.
Surely that's not just an opinion? :-?
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Dishonored, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Deponia
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| 17 MAY 2009 at 10:58pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Aya's taste in games is often opposite to mine, but when I read his glowing review of CI, I found myself just being happy that there are still AGs being produced that get some of us, any of us, fired up these days.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 4:18am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1652
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | IMO, Culpa was grossly overrated here. Expectations, zeal, or consensus doesn't mean anyone's opinion is wrong, or vice-versa. A reviewer is not just posting his or her opinion. A review should be a responsible expert's relative and comparative view, not someone's knee-jerk emotional reaction to a new game. Comparing Culpa's story and graphic appeal to TLJ is just not near the facts--as I saw them.
_________________
Exercise your vision.
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 7:14am |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | In your opinion.
Of course. What else.
But the thing that makes reviews as a whole worthwile, is that they sort of have a consistency. Once you get to know a reviewers reviews over time, you can adjust. I almost never agree with reviews by Greg Kasivin (Gamespot) so whenever he tells me to buy a game, I surely don't.
Here on JA+ things are different. Reviews have turned out to be spot on almost every time. So when (rarely) a review is way off (CI by Aya) I think it is quite right that someone blows the whistle.
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 7:53am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | My impression was that he was loving the story/gameplay and that's where the comparison to TLJ came from. On the graphical side, I think the screenshots easily showed that it was not on par with TLJ. You should also know that Aya isn't hugely influenced by graphics so in that regard you should easily be able to tell if you agree or not - it's not like you can't see the graphics for yourself in the review.
I think part of this is knowing the reviewer and what they like/dislike. Like Sir Dave, my tastes tend to run nearly opposite of Aya's, so when I see him heaping praise on a game, I figure I probably won't like it then. In some weird way, a glowing review of a game from Aya tends to make me shy away from a game. :-/
I was surprised to see that we both loved The Lost Crown, so in that instance we did like the same thing, so I guess there is hope.
Of course, as someone who has done reviews for reviews for JA I've thrown out the occasional goose egg too. I don't think many agreed with my review of Next Life - I thoroughly enjoyed that game. I still don't see how people could have loved Dracula Origin - the start of the game was awesome - but after that it came across as a rushed hodge-podge of ideas just to get it out the door. If they would have kept the mood and style of the 1st location, that game would have totally rocked. Quite a few players liked the game - go figure!
I have grown accustomed to sitting on a review for a few days though just to be sure that I wasn't overcome by emotions (whether good or bad). If I feel the same way about it after stepping away for a few days, then I send it, if not, I make changes. We are only human, but I don't think getting pissed off over a single puzzle warrants ripping a game to shreds - which I have seen some reviewers do. Likewise, loving a particular aspect of a game doesn't warrant glossing over it's shortcomings either.
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 8:27am |
| Deleted User | I've also learnt by now, that when Aya (I'm starting to think in some instances Ivinia too? ) just LOVES a game, I won't be too crazy about it, and vice versa.
I think it's very hard to write a review that would be useful to everybody. For this reason, there should be a difference, I feel, between an "official review" and a forum post where you express your personal feelings about a game. Of course a reviewer can express his personal feelings, but he should be careful to state his personal bias and preferences upfront, especially since it's near impossible for anyone to be completely objective about anything, let alone something as subjective and personal as your experience with a game.
I know very well by now that my personal book, movie, and gaming tastes tend to be niche and not quite what falls in the range of "popular taste", so if I were to write a review, I'd have to carefully take that into consideration, otherwise my review would only be useful to people who have the exact same tastes as myself.
Sadly, I fear that that would not be a great amount of people. :-/
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 9:29am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (18 MAY 2009 8:27am)
I've also learnt by now, that when Aya (I'm starting to think in some instances Ivinia too? ) just LOVES a game, I won't be too crazy about it, and vice versa.
[smiley=rofl.gif]
I really wish I could understand why you liked Dracula Origin so much...
- puzzles for the sake of puzzles.
- Having a puzzle that requires playing the piano - BUT assumes every player knows how to play the piano, thus providing no documentation on which keys correspond to which notes forcing the player to either do a Google search or find a walkthrough.
- Egypt? Egypt?!? Need I say more?
- You make it to a HUGE castle and only have 4-5 rooms to explore?
C'mon Trav... that game was rushed out the door to beat the release of Dracula - Path of the Dragon by Kheops, at least that's how it felt. The first chapter was A+ material. After that...no. It could have been SO much better.
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 11:09am |
| Deleted User |
Very many years ago I wrote 4 o5 Reviews for the Quandary Site as was. I stopped after a fairly short while since I felt that the responsibility of praising or damning a game was a highly unpleasant task.
Whilst realizing that it's impossible not to have subjective feelings about each game, I tried to be as objective as I could and generally managed to lay out many of the 'factual pros & cons.
Nevertheless I got very little satisfaction from Review writing and decided to devote myself to alpha & beta testing and walkthru writing which IMHO is more constructive for my favorite Quest-Adventure genre.
I do not want to enter the fray re the review of Culpa Innata since I was one of the beta testers and am doubtless biased.
On the one hand from what I remember I thought it was a very innovative game with a great deal going for it.
My only criticism up to the last beta (and hopefully was completely corrected before release --- but I don't know ??) was that the control of Phoenix was bad and if you weren't careful she would spin like a top on her vertical axis and occasionally when walking along a corridor bash backwards & forwards into the opposite walls.
Apart from that IIRC it was a very original and enjoyable game.
I seem to remember that the facial expressions and lip synching were far better than any I had seen --- before or even after ! I don’t think that comparisons with the Longest Journey for better or for worse are helpful or valid. They are both very different and original games hut that’s all !
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 11:19am |
rainynight65Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 2
Joined: 17 MAY 2009
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Lucien21 (17 MAY 2009 6:59pm)
As someone who claims to have written reviews for long enough, you sure missed the fact that reviews are a matter of opinion not fact.
You obviously disagree with Aya's comparison to TLJ and the graphics, but that doesn't make it inappropriate or wrong.
A review is not an opinion, it is supposed to be a guideline for people to make a buy/don't buy decision. A reviewer must know what they are talking about, and if they bring up things that are fact and can be proved or disproved (like graphics quality), then they must make sure that they have got their facts straight. If you write reviews, you are a journalist and should follow certain guidelines of journalistic writing. A review cannot be 100% subjective - then it would be an opinion - but there is no such thing as a 100% objective review either.
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 11:37am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Ivinia (18 MAY 2009 9:29am)
Originally Posted By TheTraveler (18 MAY 2009 8:27am)
I've also learnt by now, that when Aya (I'm starting to think in some instances Ivinia too? ) just LOVES a game, I won't be too crazy about it, and vice versa.
[smiley=rofl.gif]
I really wish I could understand why you liked Dracula Origin so much...
- puzzles for the sake of puzzles.
- Having a puzzle that requires playing the piano - BUT assumes every player knows how to play the piano, thus providing no documentation on which keys correspond to which notes forcing the player to either do a Google search or find a walkthrough.
- Egypt? Egypt?!? Need I say more?
- You make it to a HUGE castle and only have 4-5 rooms to explore?
C'mon Trav... that game was rushed out the door to beat the release of Dracula - Path of the Dragon by Kheops, at least that's how it felt. The first chapter was A+ material. After that...no. It could have been SO much better.
Ok, ok, ok then... you do have a few valid points... - especially concerning the piano puzzle, and in my own little raves about the game, I pointedly complained about both the piano and the hieroglyphics puzzles, and I am a piano player! That piano puzzle was not completely logical even if you do know how to read music and play the piano - there was a music note that did not make sense.
I did not mind the Egypt part so much as I thought it was rather nicely done - but.. - I guess the game could have been so much more atmospheric had more of it rather taken place in Transylvannia in spooky places, especially Dracula's castle.
So although my liking for the game probably had a lot to do with nice music and graphics.. [smiley=blush.gif] *hides head* um.. - and some very nicely done atmospheric bits, I do concede that I was disappointed with the rushed ending, and especially in not experiencing Drac's castle more.
Hey, - but to be fair to the game - it did have generally a nice variety of puzzles, just a pity about the two stinkers already mentioned. :-/
(What can I say - additionally, the game had the nicest, most ambivalent Dracula that I've ever seen :; also, I really liked the little backstory regarding Dracula (even though it was mostly just done in text); and I've always been a sucker for a good piece of story...)
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 11:50am |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (18 MAY 2009 8:27am)
I've also learnt by now, that when Aya (I'm starting to think in some instances Ivinia too? ) just LOVES a game, I won't be too crazy about it, and vice versa.
Same here. In fact, I disagree with him so consistently that his reviews are actually quite useful to me in terms of buying decisions His review of Culpa Innata was one of the main reasons I didn't buy the game (though I did check other reviews and comments first for the sake of fairness).
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 2:34pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | I agree that it was a disappointing review. The game was almost completely devoid of puzzles for the 6+ hours I played. Just endless dialogue, dress up, more dialogue... Then finally a screen with a puzzle that has one hotspot and one place to use it. I quit after that point.
But to each their own.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 4:37pm |
KaylIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 30
Joined: 5 MAY 2009
Status : Online | Culpa Innata was seriously the worst game i ever bought. And I once owned a Sega CD
My scythe--I like to keep it next to where my heart used to be.
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 5:16pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2751
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | In defense of the review, Aya was not the only reviewer who enjoyed the game:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/culpainnata/index.html?tag=result;title;0
http://www.gameplasma.com/reviews/index/view/id/409
http://www.gamingexcellence.com/pc/games/859/review.shtml
In fact, most reviewers seem to concider the game to be either good, or at least average.
(I still fall under the category who of people who disliked the game, but that is another story)
Kayl, if you want me to, i can point you in the direction of some far worse games. That way CI won't seem THAT bad
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 5:53pm |
HellSpawnSpace Cadet
Posts : 197
Joined: 19 FEB 2007
Status : Offline | http://justadventure.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1195831676/3
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate!
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 6:04pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | A game can't be all things to all people.
Some people want a story driven game with a lot of interaction with other characters, and don't want puzzles to "hold up" their progress in the game.
Other people want both a story driven game and challenging puzzles.
Other people want a variety of puzzles and an interactive gameworld, but don't have story as a priority and want few or no conversations with other characters.
Some people want "hard" puzzles (at least puzzles that are hard to them).
Other people want "easy" puzzles (easy to them) -- yet there are people who found Riven to be "easy" because they were logical, so what is "hard" and what is "easy?"
Even among games that are considered more puzzle-oriented, there is a difference between the puzzles in a game like RHEM (where most of the puzzles could not exist without the gameworld) and the puzzles in a game like Safecracker or Shivers (where the puzzles are more localized). The puzzles themselves are different -- one requiring a sense of direction and one not, etc., and even puzzle lovers may not like both types.
The list goes on...
You'll never find a game with all these characteristics since some are contradictory, yet they're all considered adventure games. There will never be an adventure game that is so good that everyone will like it because people like different things. Look at all the great games (considered great by most adventure gamers) that appear on "worst games" lists.
Many adventure gamers are adaptable and can enjoy both story/conversation-oriented and puzzle-oriented adventure games, but I don't know that they are in the majority and have seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. So it's impossible for a reviewer to review for everyone. Choosing a game solely on the basis of a grade is guaranteed to get you disappointments unless you know the reviewer has identical tastes to yours. Even if you read the entire review and don't just go by the grade -- Aya thought Culpa had great puzzles, but not everyone in this thread agrees. Aya was impressed by the expansiveness and depth of Culpa's gameworld, unlike some who've posted in this thread. Again, you need to know the reviewer's tastes, and if you don't, read more than one review and see what they agree on.
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 6:23pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
You really summed up what some of us here have been saying for years, Jenny. AGs come in far too many styles to please everyone and those of us with diverse tastes have a much larger spectrum of games to choose from. Even better if you like various forms of action and/or strategy along with story and puzzles. That way you also get to enjoy tons of 3D platformers, RPG hyndrids and other types of games.
I thought Culpa was quite good, but hardly a hall-of-fame classic. Then again I adored Grim Fandango, which is one of my all-time top-10 favorite titles. Yet some people absolutely hated it because the controls were funky and a couple of puzzles had action elements.
In the end about all you can say is to each his own. I'm just glad there's so much variety in games as well as films, books, music, sports, food and all the other fun, interesting, challenging, stimulating things in life (especially people) - because variety provides a continuous stream of good choices.
Cheers, Terry
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 7:18pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (18 MAY 2009 6:04pm)
. So it's impossible for a reviewer to review for everyone. [..snipped...] Again, you need to know the reviewer's tastes, and if you don't, read more than one review and see what they agree on.
Agreed, Jenny. As I had said my earlier post, as far as I'm concerned, the reviewer should state his tastes upfront and not only should he mention what he personally likes in a game, but he should compare the game that he is reviewing, to other similar games. I have, in fact, read reviews that do this. It's a very useful feature.
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 7:33pm |
| Deleted User | I only want to add one facet to what has already been said on the subject.
Since every game however good (or 'bad' - except absolute execrables) has as least some pros and cons it is "dangerous' for any reviewer to grade a game A+.
A+ is the very highest grading that can be given to a game and implies, to me anyhow, near perfection i.e. enormous pros and negligible cons.
In other words a game that is going to join the "Hall of Fame" of 'classics' in the future. It is not some game that is merely excellent and very personally enjoyable.
Although IMHO there were a lot of good aspects to CI, there were also some tangible negatives and hence it was a bit exaggerated to give it an A+.
A, or A- would have been sufficient for those who really appreciated the game --- just my opinion of course !
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| 18 MAY 2009 at 7:39pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By rainynight65 (18 MAY 2009 11:19am)
Originally Posted By Lucien21 (17 MAY 2009 6:59pm)
As someone who claims to have written reviews for long enough, you sure missed the fact that reviews are a matter of opinion not fact.
You obviously disagree with Aya's comparison to TLJ and the graphics, but that doesn't make it inappropriate or wrong.
A review is not an opinion, it is supposed to be a guideline for people to make a buy/don't buy decision.... A review cannot be 100% subjective - then it would be an opinion - but there is no such thing as a 100% objective review either.
A review, in the end, is always an opinion.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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