If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the
FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to
register or
login before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
| 26 MAR 2009 at 9:46am |
| Deleted User | If you think it's bad with Adventure games, you should see how bad it is in other genres.
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 11:21am |
ILoveYouIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 56
Joined: 23 MAR 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (26 MAR 2009 9:46am)
If you think it's bad with Adventure games, you should see how bad it is in other genres.
Exactly. And this is a bit off topic but I was watching "From Hell" last night and somehow that lead to me thinking about the controversy Still Life received for its violence and "disturbing" animations.. I don't get it. It's okay to see these things (and far worse things) on big screen or on dvd but if its in a game, god forbid the screaming parents.... "Yeah, honey, it's okay if you watch Dexter with us but that PC game you've got in your hands is just too violent..."
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 11:33am |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | It's not violence in other genres I'm talking about. That's a age old discussion. I don't mind the violence or the gore.
When I play FPS, I'm up against enemies, monsters and whatnot. Doesn't bother me, and ethically it might even seem the right thing to do. They threaten you or the world, so you shoot them, fine.
But in AG's you start stealing right off the bat from people you've only just met, or not even met yet, or indeed people who have not wronged you in any way. Ethically, there's a difference there.
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 11:37am |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | The ends justify the means 8-).
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 12:11pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | Well, in Scratches you are the owner of the house so whatever you do doesn't hurt anyone but yourself.
And in Culpa Innata Pheonix is a police officer so she has the right to do some of these things.
But I have to agree on most other games. Are we supposed to cheer for this person for breaking the law for no good reason?
Take Tunguska for example- the two protagonists there will stop at nothing to achieve their goals, from torturing cats to causing car accidents. And they feel no remorse either which makes it much worse.
Or The Longest Journey, where April should have been arrested to what she did to that poor cop.
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 12:55pm |
portiafimbriataIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 76
Joined: 12 FEB 2009
Status : Offline | I usually don't mind doing questionable things in adventure games that further my aims, because its so often balanced out by the good you accomplish. Many of them involve getting a surly and/or uncooperative person to leave the room so that you can obtain an item of little value that will help you out.
There is this part in Necronomicon where you (involuntarily) go shoot your best friend. He didn't do anything, didn't threaten your life, and he's locked up in an insane asylum for his own safety. I still have no idea why I shot him. And you're just supposed to continue like it was nothing.
Cthulu loves me, this I know&&The Necronomicon tells me so
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 1:04pm |
An_InklingSpace Cadet
Posts : 171
Joined: 20 JUN 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Cultura (26 MAR 2009 11:33am)
It's not violence in other genres I'm talking about. That's a age old discussion. I don't mind the violence or the gore.
When I play FPS, I'm up against enemies, monsters and whatnot. Doesn't bother me, and ethically it might even seem the right thing to do. They threaten you or the world, so you shoot them, fine.
But in AG's you start stealing right off the bat from people you've only just met, or not even met yet, or indeed people who have not wronged you in any way. Ethically, there's a difference there.
Well, it is a game .
It may be true that AGs have more petty larceny as a core gameplay element than other genres, as picking up stuff and using it to bypass some obstacle is a big part of the genre. Though, RPGs and games like GTA give you the opportunity to engage in far worse crimes just for the fun of it. So, I don't think AGs win the "most evil genre" award . Inventory puzzles require inventory, and constantly asking for permission, then returning and giving thanks, is not considered good fun for some reason.
Who is this great burdensome slavering dog-thing that mediocres my every thought? ([i]Nick Cave - We Call Upon the Author[/i])
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 1:44pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Cultura (26 MAR 2009 8:59am)
How is it that the large majority of adventure games rely on you doing thing that are unethical?
you need to steal objects randomly, you need to destroy or damage property to reveal codes and keys, in some cases you have to lie.
Is there actually a game out there that does not rely on you breaking the law to complete your goal?
There are MANY games without stealing.
99% of first person adventures, for example. Sanitarium too, quickly off the top of my head.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 1:54pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Game designers make the rules and we players are not bound by real-world laws while interacting with the game world. In terms of in-game actions, there are no real victims because no real crimes are ever commited.
The only exceptions would be in MP titles where actual money is spent on in-game items or legitimately earned player stats. If these things are stolen or ruined by a hacker, then something of real, quantifiable value has been taken and a real crime is commited.
Cheers, Terry
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 5:03pm |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | Sanitarium too, quickly off the top of my head.
If I'm remembering correctly, I had to tamper with some stuff in a mortuary, of all places.
In Syberia 2 I had to deface a work of art.
Wouldn't it be a challenge to design a game without me having to break some law or other?
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 5:46pm |
GonchiSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 337
Joined: 24 SEP 2007
Status : Online | You mean like Police Quest?
But I'm not so complicated as to flee, &&or stand here in silence. &&But I'm not so simple as to not caution, &&that there aren't three minutes, or a hundred words, that could define me.&&&&[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlR-6Tw-5bE]Brief description of my person[/url] - Cuarteto de Nos
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 6:56pm |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | In any case, game designers that rely heavily inventory gameplay, seem to take the easy road: let the protagonist pick up anything. Or more on topic: steal anything that is within reach.
It is not that I am losing any sleep over it, nor do I think I will be held accountable by the local police force, but it is devoid of any creativity. And it bars me from identifying with the avatar.
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 7:04pm |
| Deleted User | What? So you are not a natural-born thief like the rest of us? :
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 7:25pm |
antlerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 28 NOV 2007
Status : Online | It is an interesting point but I think it is much to do about nothing. In many of the recent games the protagonist is found to be asking permission more frequently. Most of the things picked up is of little or no value and most often as in Sherlock Holmes, Still Life, etc. It is evidence after all you can take it. I speculate designers just follow the "rules" set by the early games, ( pick up everything), and put no thought into the ethics of it. Seriously doubt it comes from laziness or lack of morals. It is just the way it has always been done. But more and more you are seeing people asking permission before taking. It is not a big deal, at least I don't see it that way.
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 7:27pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Cultura (26 MAR 2009 8:59am)
How is it that the large majority of adventure games rely on you doing thing that are unethical?
you need to steal objects randomly, you need to destroy or damage property to reveal codes and keys, in some cases you have to lie.
Is there actually a game out there that does not rely on you breaking the law to complete your goal?
One of the things I love about AGs is being able to do all the things I wouldn't dream of doing in real life - stealing, snooping, lying, vandalism etc - I even remember shooting someone in the 1st X-File game! But all these unethical acts are usually set in stories that don't relate to the experiences of normal people anyway - I'd love to see a game made that does & that has to consider ethics. Could it be interesting?
|
| 26 MAR 2009 at 8:01pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By loobiloo (26 MAR 2009 7:27pm)
One of the things I love about AGs is being able to do all the things I wouldn't dream of doing in real life - stealing, snooping, lying, vandalism etc - I even remember shooting someone in the 1st X-File game! But all these unethical acts are usually set in stories that don't relate to the experiences of normal people anyway - I'd love to see a game made that does & that has to consider ethics. Could it be interesting?
Well, a lot of RPG's are like that. Although some of the more modern ones actually reward you for doing immoral acts, many of the older ones had repercussions - such as if you were caught stealing, assualting or murdering, the citizens would either attack and kill you, or you would be thrown into jail, with a punishment befitting your crime - not usually the death sentence, but prison time resulting in a loss of your abilities, or you'd have to pay a fine moneywise, befitting the seriousness of your crime.
In some of the games, the consequences are more subtle, such as people refuse to help you if you have wronged them. In some of them, you simply lean more towards good or evil in your alignment. In the game Fable, for instance, you would literally grow horns or a halo, according to the balance of "good" or "evil" deeds you have done, and the NPC's (non-player-characters) will react by either cheering you on, or running away from you in fear.
|
| 28 MAR 2009 at 1:12pm |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | I got stuck early on in FBI Confidential Art of Murder, precisely because you can't leave a location until you have returned an object where you found it..That shows how corrupted I have become!
Seriously though, aren't a lot of these things just lying around like they don't belong to anybody? Especially in the Broken Sword games you pick up a lot of junk that nobody else would want, or people willingly leave you stuff to 'look after' while they go and do something else. Secret Files I agree, did involve more nefarious methods but in general I dont think there's a lot of out and out criminal activity going on in AG's..
|
| 28 MAR 2009 at 1:25pm |
TCPrivate Detective
Posts : 688
Joined: 14 NOV 2005
Status : Online | Well, if you haven't already, you don't want to play Zork Nemesis, though it's a wonderful game.
|
| 28 MAR 2009 at 3:31pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | I don't see what difference it makes what they do in games. After all I think anyone that plays a computer game of any gerne or watches a movie for that matter and thinks it's real life has a problem. Adventure games come the closest to any gerne as far as realisem goes but of course they are still just stories too. Clues have to be hidden and hiding them in something that has to be distroyed makes if even more interesting as now you have to find something else to break it. If all this was taken out the games would be so bad that no one would play them any more. Games do get sensured more than movies because parents just throw them to the kids and don't bother to explain these things to them while they are playing them. I don't beleive in sensering games or movies just because the parents are too lazy to teach there kids right from wrong.
|
| 28 MAR 2009 at 4:46pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Cultura (26 MAR 2009 5:02pm)
Sanitarium too, quickly off the top of my head.
If I'm remembering correctly, I had to tamper with some stuff in a mortuary, of all places.
In Syberia 2 I had to deface a work of art.
Wouldn't it be a challenge to design a game without me having to break some law or other?
I'm pretty sure the mortuary was not real. None of the game is.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
|
