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| 27 FEB 2009 at 8:44pm | |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor  Posts : 6693 Joined: 16 OCT 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | . That's a great point Loobiloo. Especially in today's dreadful economy, there are so many more worthy causes to support financially and in other ways than game development. In better times, why not also support struggling gamemakers? I do as often as possible. But right now people are being hit so hard in so many ways that it's simply impossible to make games a top charitable priority. If a less-than-independently-wealthy individual wants to enter the business these days, they have little to no choice but to work for / with commercial publishers and accept some of the hard choices and restrictions that come with the territory. Whether or not Dave knew about this DRM scheme in advance and knowing that he's hardly rolling in money, then it didn't really matter what he thought about it. Most likely, he either went along with the terms or the deal was screwed and his game wouldn't get made. That aside, since Dave was not the publisher or acting as an independent developer looking for one, he bears no blame for the decision to include such a limiting form of DRM. Therefore, any complaints about that aspect of the game should be directed at the publisher not him. Cheers, Terry |
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| 2 MAR 2009 at 12:50pm | |
AkhillesPrivate Detective  Posts : 581 Joined: 21 JUL 2003 Location: US Status : Offline | Here I thought the adventure game genre was above all of this DRM nonsense I have to put up with to play games anymore... At any rate.. the moment I became soured was when I clicked "buy this game" and I was directed to a website "Play First" and I saw: With PlayPass™ : $9.95 (Reg. Price: $19.95) My first thought? A sale! $9.95! Yay cheap AND I heard it was an awesome game. Clicking the link took me to a massive game page... and then I got the idea... subscription to a Gametap® type service to get the $9.95. Since I wasn't aware of Play First before... I felt mislead. As far as the restrictions I've read about go... not being able to play on multiple machines doesn't bother me... but if there's something that keeps me from reinstalling or playing a second time... bleah. Keep up this type of DRM nonsense and console games will be the only thing left, people... Publishers... success is spelled "DRM Free®"... You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here. |
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| 2 MAR 2009 at 2:11pm | |
| Deleted User | Eh? I see you have since changed your post, Akhilles - in any case, I had read your original post, where you mentioned that Galactic Civilizations by Stardock came without DRM. Anyway, I checked it out, and when I saw it was true, I immediately made an online purrchase of their latest game/expansion. Hey, I put my money where my mouth is. I also bought Prince of Persia, even though it's not my very first choice in gaming (I'm not so good with platformers), because of the no DRM. I was actually previously planning on not buying GalCiv, because there are currently so many Space strategy games out there, and I prefer high fantasy strategy in any case. But hey, I can grow to like a game that sports no DRM. Well Akhilles, just thought I'd mention to you that today you have made a sale for Stardock; I don't know why you changed your original post, but in any case, when I went to check on the DRM situation, I also noticed that the GalCiv games got pretty good reviews all over. 8-) So that is that. Bought and paid for. |
| 2 MAR 2009 at 5:48pm | |
| Deleted User | Without relating to Dave Gilbert at all --- What the heck is the purpose of DRM downloading? Ostensibly to minimize or eliminate piracy. But whilst estranging many gamers (including myself --- never have and never intend to purchase a DRM-download game !) )does it do that even --- or the opposite ? In general, with "normal" games there are 5 possibilities --- and let's not be fancy shmancy or possibly hypocritical about the very large amount of file-sharing which goes on ---- **** Buy a regular copy **** Download a non-DRM copy **** Download a DRM copy **** Pirate the game **** Do without the game In the case of DRM-only downloadings there are only 3 possibilities --- **** Download a DRM copy **** Pirate the game **** Do without the game For the many people who refuse or do not want to download a DRM copy (including myself) there are only 2 possibilities --- ********* Pirate or do without. I imagine that this leads to more piracy and not less, and the people who produce this invidious method are maybe shooting themselves in the foot !! |
| 2 MAR 2009 at 6:40pm | |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice Posts : 295 Joined: 17 JUN 2006 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (2 MAR 2009 2:11pm) I mentioned GC2 : ). Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset! |
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| 2 MAR 2009 at 7:12pm | |
| Deleted User | Well, as I've already got GalCiv 1, and GalCiv 2 , now I bought GC2: Endless Universe. Well that was the one I wasn't going to get, but one has to support non-DRM, you know?.... :-[ Oops! Even for JAF, this is going extremely off topic . [smiley=hijacked.gif] Yeah, sorry people, the thread is almost exhausted, anyway... :-* Oh, and applause for Len's post above! [smiley=clap.gif] Good point Len, and expressed well! |
| 3 MAR 2009 at 5:34pm | |
ags-sshIntergalactic Janitor  Posts : 16 Joined: 20 MAY 2008 Status : Online | I'm intrigued to know if there is any form of DRM that is acceptable to the people in this thread who have opposed it, or should software companies just throw themselves upon the mercy of the pirates and the goodwill of the belt-tightening public? For example, if there was a decent privacy policy, would it be acceptable for a game to phone home every 5 minutes (say) to make sure that no more than one copy of that game with the same activation code was being used at once: this would obviously require a net connection to be able to play. Or what alternatives are there? For the latest on all things about Adventure Game Studio, [url=http://ags-ssh.blogspot.com]read my blog![/url] |
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| 3 MAR 2009 at 9:25pm | |
shadow9d9Sorcerer ApprenticePosts : 295 Joined: 17 JUN 2006 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By ags-ssh (3 MAR 2009 5:33pm) You act as if DRM has ever or will ever have any impact on pirates... Making it rougher for the actual consumer is not a good business model. Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset! |
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| 3 MAR 2009 at 9:52pm | |
Terry PenrodGrand InquisitorPosts : 6693 Joined: 16 OCT 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | . Not on technically experienced pirates, but I'll bet that there are a lot of average users who see pirated games, etc. as a daunting, confusing, perhaps even scary (not to mention illegal) path. For them, I suppose DRM and the general media coverage of heavy-handed tactics by RIAA lawyers might be just enough deterrent to make them think twice before burning extra copies for friends and downloading illegal files. However, there just isn't any practical way to confirm the exact number of people that have remained paying customers specifically because they fall into that category as opposed to folks that simply refuse to pirate copyrighted material on ethics alone. Most likely, the average adult consumer is motivated by several factors including morals / guilt and fear from both a lack of technological knowledge / experience and possible legal repurcussions. For people who have reasonable confidence in their technical skills as well as looser "morals", DRM means nothing to them, and yes there are millions of people all over the world who fit that profile too - especially younger, poorer individuals who grew up with PCs and the web. Cheers, Terry |
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| 3 MAR 2009 at 10:42pm | |
Steve VSorcerer ApprenticePosts : 265 Joined: 16 MAR 2008 Status : Online | Terry, I myself have availed myself of the 'opportunity' to download illegal copies of games. (These were games that were not available to me to purchase by regular means, either because they were so old, not released in the UK or for a 'niche' market that even Amazon or Play.com don't carry) Depending on the software you use, it really is a piece of cake, I'm not the most technically savvy person on the planet but if all you have to do is point a bittorrent client at a particular file and wait for it to download (theres a little bit more you need to know after that but I'm not here to teach people to steal..) then frankly anyone can do it. The most alarming part is the amount of malware you can infect your system with using these things, but thats usually easily dealt with. Oh yes, and the stuff you need to do this is free, which just adds to the 'problem'. All I'm saying is that any reasonably competent computer user can find and download illegal copies of 'cracked' software so I can kind of sympathise with the poster asking what the publishers are supposed to do... |
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| 3 MAR 2009 at 11:12pm | |
Terry PenrodGrand InquisitorPosts : 6693 Joined: 16 OCT 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | . Well then again Steve, there's a bit less of a moral issue with old games that are no longer published and very hard to find at any price. The ethical principle is the same, but few if any people are actually counting on income from those titles. That aside, I understand that it's really not a big deal to download and play pirated games. But they do have the reputation of being incomplete and/or infected with malicious code. That general sense of wariness along with the moral and legal issues probably stops a lot of people from going down that path in the first place. So what we have is a legitimate consumer base that - for one reason or another - chooses to pay for what they get. Once they do, I feel it is incumbent on the publisher not to infringe too much on their privacy or severely restrict their access to the product or burden them with undue technical problems. Howver, I also sympathize with hard-working game makers, publishers and yes, even purely financial speculators who want to protect their investment. Some do a pretty darn good job of keeping DRM measures reasonble and others do not. In the case of the game we are discussing in this thread, I believe they have gone too far. Cheers, Terry |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 8:05am | |
GonchiSorcerer Apprentice Posts : 337 Joined: 24 SEP 2007 Status : Online | Originally Posted By ags-ssh (3 MAR 2009 5:33pm) There isn't. At least, of course, as far as I'm concerned. I won't support a product that utilizes digital rights management, regardless of how much I like the developer, how much I respect the publisher or how interested I am in the game. If it uses DRM of any kind, I'm not buying it. Originally Posted By ags-ssh (3 MAR 2009 5:33pm) If they expect to get my money, and DRM is their only "bright" idea, then yes, that may be exactly what they'd have to do. But there's no doubt they'll keep doing what they're doing now; accept a certain small loss of sales from "extremists" like myself, trying to prevent an unsubstantiated large loss of sales due to piracy. That said, I strongly believe that DRM's main purpose was never to deter piracy but rather deter the purchase of used copies. It's definitely easier to justify the use of DRM when you're crusading against piracy than when you're vying against people saving a few bucks to increase your profit... but maybe I'm just too cynical. *shrug* Originally Posted By ags-ssh (3 MAR 2009 5:33pm) No. But I'm not so complicated as to flee, &&or stand here in silence. &&But I'm not so simple as to not caution, &&that there aren't three minutes, or a hundred words, that could define me.&&&&[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlR-6Tw-5bE]Brief description of my person[/url] - Cuarteto de Nos |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 8:37am | |
| Deleted User | I'm intrigued to know if there is any form of DRM that is acceptable to the people in this thread who have opposed it, or should software companies just throw themselves upon the mercy of the pirates and the goodwill of the belt-tightening public? That sounds extremely naïve to me. Lets not pretend here. We all know of at least one pirater of software, if not quite a few. Some of them are tech savvy, some of them are not. A lot of them are schoolchildren. I have heard schoolchildren talk, and they don't seem to feel any qualms about downloading software that they do not pay for. This is why I feel that the gaming industry needs to educate people morally and practically: just like the movie industry is doing, they need to put advertisements out there that pirating is stealing, and besides that it makes a thief out of you, it also damages the industry. If the industry cannot sustain itself anymore because people don't purchase their games legally, there will be no more games for us to play in the future. It all comes down to a matter of responsibility, and cause and effect, doesn't it? Do these kids make copies for one another of their legal copies? No, easier than that: they simply download copies from certain websites where the DRM has already been removed from games. Even more odious, is that I have overheard adults discussing the fact that they had found a person who "chips" their consoles for them, and then sells them pirated games, all of this for a fee, of course, so now the cash that should have gone into the developers pocket, is going into some disgusting, creepy, thieving slug's pocket. If I was a developer, I would much prefer friends making copies of one legal copy that they bought, to share between two or three of them (a sort of gaming "club " if you will- who share the cost of a game between 2 or 3 of them), than people not buying a new legal copy at all, and instead supporting a$$holes like the disgusting slug I described above. Have I ever pirated a game as well? Like Steve, I have dlded an ancient DOS game (to be exact, two) that is not for sale even second hand anymore. Would I pay for a legal copy the moment I manage to locate one? Sure I would. Of course I would. I already in the meantime have, with one of those two games. Seeing that it was perforce a used copy, as originals are not available any more, this hardly impacted on the developers and publishers of the game, anyway. But, you will say, these games did not have DRM, and that is why you pirated them. No, you are missing the point. I pirated them, because after searching a long time, I could not find a legal copy, and as I'm still prepared to pay for a legal copy, I don't feel I am damaging the industry in any way by what I have done. You cannot steal something that isn't there in the first place. Let me assure you, if they had DRM on them, it would have been no problem at all to still use them. How do I know that? Because I've been forced to download anti-DRM patches for some of my legal games, in cases where, the DRM was a) messing around with my registry and my other software, or b) putting spyware/trackware on my PC, or c) simply gave me problems in accessing the game itself. In any case, I have a friend, who, although he buys every single game legally, downloads a "No-CD-patch" for every one of them, because he prefers to play without having to have his disk in the drive. So my point is, that it is frighteningly easy to get/use pirated games. You don't even need to have internet, as there are disgusting lice out there who sell pirated copies of games. Now, two things that devs could perhaps do: 1) they could do a 'cheap' copy and an elite, fancy, filled with extras copy. The cheap copy would perhaps not appeal to collectors, but it would be better than sitting with an illegal game. Publishers could give discount to students/schoolchildren the way that many gyms and other institutions do; seeing that a lot of students pirate simply because of a lack of funds. This way they could make it more economical for people with limited funds to acces legal copies of games. Publishers could do DRM where patches and other downloadable content only recognises "legal" copies. This is, for instance the case with Galactic Civilizations, which I mentioned I had purchased. They could use serial numbers. Serial numbers are less easy to pirate, (from faceless 3rd parties) because it is illegal to hand out serial numbers, where it is not illegal to make "no-CD" /"no-DVD" cracks. Then, I have nothing against the good old- fashioned CD-check/DVD-check, which is, of course, all the more efficient in combination with a serial number (against casual copying by very lazy /technically incompetent people) . Contnd. next post |
| 4 MAR 2009 at 8:38am | |
| Deleted User | Continued from previous post: I'm quite prepared to sit with the slight irritation of having to keep a disc and serial number handy, if at last I get to play my game when and where and how many times I like. I prefer not to have online activations, as I have an additional gaming PC that is not connected to the internet, and in fact is in another room as where my modem and connections are. However, if I do have to endure an online activation, I would like it to be for unlimited installs. In other words, no limit on amount of installs. Of course, especially with downloadable games, this will only prevent piracy if limited to one machine at a time. What could be done in this case, is that DRM could check that you uninstall from one machine before you install on another machine, but this might be a bit of a problem in cases where your hard drive suddenly goes bust. There should be a "plan B" for cases like that, and the publisher must have a very good customer care service to assist individuals with such cases. For example, if there was a decent privacy policy, would it be acceptable for a game to phone home every 5 minutes... No, most definitely not acceptable. I want to be able to play may game with my modem unplugged, thank you very much, unless of course, I'm playing a MMORPG or similar multiplayer on-line game, like a multiplayer on-line strategy game that I'd be playing against other online gamers. Also, I detest trackware and adware, and consider it malware. I think my antispyware software agrees. |
| 4 MAR 2009 at 9:57am | |
ags-sshIntergalactic JanitorPosts : 16 Joined: 20 MAY 2008 Status : Online | Perhaps then, the only solution for gamemakers is to have their games as online games where you have to log in to access your savegames, etc. A game that is online (e.g. Runescape) no-one seems to be annoyed with. However, this doesn't really fit with the story-telling of adventure games, so personally I think that opposing DRM will simply be the death of certain genres... For the latest on all things about Adventure Game Studio, [url=http://ags-ssh.blogspot.com]read my blog![/url] |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 10:06am | |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman  Posts : 1317 Joined: 15 JAN 2008 Location: GR Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Gonchi (4 MAR 2009 8:05am) You are not too cynical. The second-hand market is a very real loss of sales for the publishers, and DRM is actually quite effective in squelching it , while ostensibly fighting piracy (and we all know how successful it is in that regard). There are as yet unconfirmed but well founded fears that the next generation of consoles, where piracy is supposed to be far less widespread, will fully implement DRM at a hardware level, so a legal copy of a game will only be playable on one machine. Three guesses on why that will be (hint: it's not to fight piracy, although it will undoubtedly be the reason given by the publishers). Originally Posted By ags-ssh (4 MAR 2009 9:57am) I on the other hand, think that implementing DRM will be the death of certain publishers. I guess time will tell.
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 10:31am | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By ags-ssh (4 MAR 2009 9:57am) No, an attitude like the above one, will be the death of many genres, or, in any case, will lead to a decline in the gaming industry. As we have stressed, many people do NOT want to even be involved with the internet, to do their gaming. And that includes console gamers, who, incidentally, definitely also employ piracy. You are not listening to your market, in an amazingly stubborn way. We want to legally purchase our games. In a store. On disk. With as little internet-based DRM as possible. Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (4 MAR 2009 10:05am) Hear, hear! [smiley=soapbox.gif] Especially the extremely narrow-minded ones, who simply cannot see the wood for trees, and are so stuck on their narrow little DRM path, that they simply either cannot, or otherwise refuse to, see the wider picture. Say, I've just had a thought. It is the makers of DRM that are messing up videogaming. They must surely be touting their products very aggressively with the publishers, and a lot of them seem to be succeeding. Mmmm, I cannot help wondering why a certain poster above is so aggresively in favour of super-restrictive DRM... |
| 4 MAR 2009 at 3:14pm | |
shadow9d9Sorcerer ApprenticePosts : 295 Joined: 17 JUN 2006 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By ags-ssh (4 MAR 2009 9:57am) Some people do not have the internet and there will be times when the internet goes down.. you shouldn't be able to play your games then? What if the company goes out of business? You wouldn't be able to play a TON of adventure games anymore if this was the case. I will repeat what you keep ignoring. RMs do NOTHING to prevent piracy and ONLY screw the consumers. Games WITHOUT DRMs are often huge successes-GC2, ME. DRMs would be the death of pc games, period. Go look at Gears of War PC and how they made it so you could only play online using GFW... it screwed the publisher big time. Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset! |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 4:18pm | |
ags-sshIntergalactic JanitorPosts : 16 Joined: 20 MAY 2008 Status : Online |
My market? I make freeware adventures, so its not an issue for me. But if I ever were to try and make money from adventures I'd want to be able to make money from it and not have my hard work stolen by a bunch of people.
I'm only in favour of game developers being able to make a living... For the latest on all things about Adventure Game Studio, [url=http://ags-ssh.blogspot.com]read my blog![/url] |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 4:20pm | |
ags-sshIntergalactic JanitorPosts : 16 Joined: 20 MAY 2008 Status : Online | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (4 MAR 2009 3:14pm) Have you any facts to substantiate this? There's plenty of people out there who don't know what torrents are and have no idea how to even find out how to circumvent DRM... For the latest on all things about Adventure Game Studio, [url=http://ags-ssh.blogspot.com]read my blog![/url] |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 4:31pm | |
JKingSchattenjger  Posts : 2349 Joined: 4 MAY 2008 Location: 0 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By ags-ssh (4 MAR 2009 4:20pm)Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (4 MAR 2009 3:14pm) There are also plenty of people who don't know how to copy a compact disc, either, but knowledge is only a quick search away. While I'm sure copy protection does deter in isolated cases, thus far the whole exercise has done little to stem the systemic problem since the advent of Internet proliferation. You can't kill someone in a studio. |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 5:35pm | |
shadow9d9Sorcerer ApprenticePosts : 295 Joined: 17 JUN 2006 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By ags-ssh (4 MAR 2009 4:20pm)Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (4 MAR 2009 3:14pm) Piracy= easily accessible to download free version of games Because the torrents exist... that fact shows that it doesn't prevent piracy. Anyone could go to one of the 100s of torrent sites and do a 2 second search to find it. Google isn't a hidden resource. You keep repeating the fallacy that you want to "protect" your creation by screwing the customer, while doing nothing to stop piracy. If you want to make money, it won't be through me or 1000s of others if you choose to hurt us, the real consumer, in order to "prevent" a marketshare that never would have bought your game in the first place from getting it. People who only pirate games will never buy any games, period... They will just go on to another game. They are not your customers. Your customers are the ones that want to pay to support game creation, and hurting these consumers, will only erode your base, and serve to deter people from even entering the realm of pc gaming. Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset! |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 6:06pm | |
Terry PenrodGrand InquisitorPosts : 6693 Joined: 16 OCT 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | . I disagree shadow9d9. There are many people that fall in between the two extremes of dedicated, ethically bankrupt software pirates and ethically pure consumers. For millions of them, almost any kind of mild DRM that makes casual disc copying and friendly, non-profit (but still illegal) content sharing more difficult, probably stops a whole lot of additional everyday pirating. You are ignoring all those marginal, in-between people who have fairly decent but hardly perfect ethics for whom a little DRM, education and PR go a long ways. If there were no technical restrictions (let alone legal penalties) whatsoever, IMO many, many more average folks would at least begin dabbling in piracy and once started down that path, they might never come back as paying customers. That's why I support reasonable DRM measures in general - along with better public education and more effective PR. Cheers, Terry |
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| 4 MAR 2009 at 8:36pm | |
| Deleted User | If what Terry says is true; if there really are people who are deterred from pirating by DRM (I find it hard to believe, but let's go with the argument), then these super-restrictive measures are still counter-productive - in fact, even more so. I purchased Mass Effect for PC when it came out, in spite of the restrictive DRM, simply because I know that I can circumvent the DRM on my legal copy, should I need to install the game a fourth time. If I had not already been "broken in" to DRM circumvention; - incidentally by the very fact that I struggled with problem DRM on some of my (legally purchased) games. If I had not been so looking forward to ME for so long, I would have boycotted it because of the (then) restrictive DRM, same goes for SPORE. However, had I been a totally technically incompetent person who had not the faintest clue how to crack DRM, I definitely would not have purchased the game after hearing that I could only activate it 3 x, ever. So, if there really are people who do not know how to circumvent DRM, such measures would actually deter them from buying the game, rather choosing to spend their cash on somethong that will be theirs to keep forever. You see, I like videogames and videogaming. Very much. I like to own my own copy of a game, nicely packaged in a DVD-cover, and I stack them in a huge closet, in alphabetical order. A pirated game could not give you that collector's satisfaction. Now, my reasons for not pirating, has nothing to do with DRM whatsoever. I just would not like classing myself as a pirate; just as I would not want to walk aroud stealing stuff. I mean, what decent person would spend his afternoon shoplfiting, even if he could get away with it? If your neighbour forgot his sweater hanging over your mutual wall, would you keep it for yourself, or return it to him? If the former, you would pirate anyway, DRM or no DRM. If the latter, you would not pirate, DRM, or no DRM. People who pirate, I think mostly pirate, because they don't care and because they can. They pirate games with DRM. All kinds of DRM. Also DRM with limited online activations. Like SPORE. SPORE has been pirated to death. And yet, other people prefer to buy the very same games that are also being pirated. DRM or no DRM. DRM might perhaps make a slight difference in that the pirate would prefer to pirate the easier game to circumvent DRM on, I'm not too sure if even that would make a difference, as they are gamers just like us, most of them, and therefore also have their preferences. I have visited a website where people say openly, that they illegaly download a game first, as a demo. If they like the game, they legally purchase it; if they don't like the game, then they know not to buy a turkey. Probably there are even a whole lot of reasons why people pirate games, and as some posters above have said, the dyed in the wool pirates were never planning on buying your game anyway, but that said, whatever DRM you slap onto it, is not going to deter them, because some people looking for a challenge, will crack whatever DRM you dream up, just for fun. Collectors like myself, who like having a pretty disc in a pretty box along with a pretty manual, would end buying the original, even if someone gave you a pirated copy for free. I would never download a game on the terms Emerald City is going for at the moment, (which is much worse than a pirated copy would be - at least you get to keep a pirated game) and this makes me very sad, because it looks like a game I would like to own. On a nice disc, in a nice box. Perhaps one day, this might become reality, but for the time being, there are many other games out there, and I already have a lot of nice pretty game boxes in my closet, winking at me to play them. Finally, I do agree with Terry that reasonable, middle of the road DRM such as disc checks and serial numbers, is still the best way to go, especially if you really believe that those very casual copiers of discs, who baulks at doing his friend a copy which circumvents the DRM, will be deterred - who knows, they probably are. I would just like to know something though, ags-ssh, or shall I say, - express a hope: - I hope you have never lent a (recently written still under copyright) book or a drawing or painting or video to a brother or sister or parent or child, (let alone a videogame,) as similarly, if you bought that book or video, the intellectual rights belong to you alone, and sharing it with family or friends, is just as much illegal, is it not? Ooh, well, big deal, guess what, I have on occasion let my cousin sample one or two of my games, (I took the game with when I went to visit them) and lo and behold, it led to him actually buying his own copy, which he would not have done, had he not sampled the game. So are you going to slap me in jail for making an extra sale for the publisher? Or would you widen your horizon and realise that goodwill is also important when it comes to selling a product? If you treat people like pigs, they will react like pigs; but who knows, if you treat them decently, you might just find that they'll support you. |
| 4 MAR 2009 at 9:02pm | |
Terry PenrodGrand InquisitorPosts : 6693 Joined: 16 OCT 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | . Actually that is not correct Traveler. It is perfectly legal to lend, give away, sell or destroy your single, legal copy of virtually any copyrighted material on any media - no matter what the EULA says. That's because no illegal copies (copy being the operative word) were made and your basic rights trump arbitrary legalese in so-called "contracts" like EULAs (almost) every time. You may also invite as many people as you want over to your house to watch copyrighted movies or listen to music or play games that you own legally. Additionally, you can take a legal copy of any book anywhere you want and read it aloud to as large an audience as you care to gather. This even includes global broadcasts. Moreover, you can use copyrighted material of all types anyway you see fit for non-profit purposes that include journalism, education, training, demonstrations, etc., etc. What you may not do is create new copies for distribution (profit or non-profit) by any means without permision from the copyright holder or their legal representative / agent. However, even then there are legitimate, legal exceptions like making copies of copyrighted text passages to hand out in class or handing-out presentation materials in meetings that include a certain amount of copyrighted content. Just don't ever claim the original work is your own (that's plagarism) and give proper credit to the author or artist whenever possible. If you respect and follow those simple rules, you are safe doing all sorts of things with copyrighted stuff. Cheers, Terry |
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