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| 22 FEB 2003 at 5:21pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Graphics is just the representation of the gameplay not the gameplay itself. It is like data and information... data represents the information but it is not the information in itself...
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 6:22pm |
AnnakieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 20
Joined: 22 JAN 2003
Status : Online | It's wonderful to have beautiful, stunning graphics and environments in games. But if I can't easily control my character in those environments, I'm not going to play for very long. It gets too frustrating. I don't want to spend a half hour trying to maneuver my thunderously handsome lumbering oaf of a character to just the right pixel just so he can open the beautifully hand-carved mahogany door. Arthur's Knights? Are you listening?)
Pretty graphics are great, but they don't immediately ensure good gameplay.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 6:30pm |
StammerGuild Master
Posts : 3894
Joined: 5 JAN 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (22 FEB 2003 5:20pm)
Graphics is just the representation of the gameplay not the gameplay itself. It is like data and information... data represents the information but it is not the information in itself...
dimidimidimi is right graphics just help you 'understand' the gameplay!
Resistance is not futile, we're gonna win this thing, humankind is too good, we're not a bunch of under-achievers! We're gonna stand up, and we're gonna be human beings. We're going to get fired up about the real things, the things that matter! Creativity, and the dynamic human spirit that refuses to submit.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 7:27pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | I agree with Dimitris too.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 7:37pm |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I'm not sure where I stand on this. ???
Some games, like Alone in the Dark, are crude by the standards of, say, Syberia, but remain very playable.
Others, like Bad Mojo, even though released in 1996, need make no apologies about graphic quality.
Perhaps a useful measure might be this: Would a particular title be markedly improved by better graphics or markedly diminished by poorer graphics?
I'm not sure Alone in the Dark would be substantially different with better graphics and I am not sure Syberia would be as compelling with Alone in the Dark level graphics.
Put another way, what is the relationship of compelling gameplay and graphic quality? If the gameplay is compelling, graphics may not be as important. If, however, a substantial portion of the gameplay hinges on presenting astounding images, graphics take on much larger role.
Imagine, for example, if the developers of Syberia had had no better graphic tools available to them than were available to the developers of Gabriel Knight. Would the story of Syberia make up for the pixel-heavy graphics? Or, if the developers of Gabriel Knight had had access to the tools available to the developers of Syberia, would the story be better told for looking substantially better?
While eye candy is not story (or gameplay), if a developer decides to tell a visually dazzling story, it seems reasonable to expect that that developer be able to generate some pretty impressive visuals.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 7:56pm |
| Deleted User | I agree with MrLipid. As I have said before, w/o the eye-candy, Syberia would not be the talk of the town.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 8:21pm |
HelenGuild Master
Posts : 3436
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I have to agree with both Mr. Lipid and Death-Ray.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 8:31pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4940
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I guess 'gameplay' is what you want to define it ie. it's highly subjective. I'm sure that during the pure text adventure period, many players thought that some of the games had a lot of 'gameplay'.
However, once you've seen what good graphics can do it's hard to conceive of going back. There is nothing like the graphics in the well-done adventure games or in games like Medal of Honor or Battlefield 1942!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 8:34pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | I agree with Death-Ray but not Mr. Lipid and Gamer.
Seriously: I am attracted to big pixles. I think the GFX in AITD is goregous.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 8:54pm |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Alone in the Dark is a great game. It's on my hard drive as I type this.
All I am saying is horses for courses. If a game doesn't need fabulous graphics to be fun to play, why waste money and time on fabulous graphics? And if a game makes fabulous graphics an essential part of making it fun to pay (Ooooh, look at that!), then there better be a big budget for eye candy!
There is probably a doctoral thesis lurking in here somewhere. Something along the lines of which games were possible when. Syberia could not have been published in 1993 and Alone in the Dark might not be very interesting now. So how important are technological advances in determining which games get published when?
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 9:04pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | I don't disagree anyway. I just can't think of any game that doesn't look better in 320x200. Beautiful hi-res games scares me away, most of them are Myst-clones.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 10:39pm |
| Deleted User | I don't disagree anyway. I just can't think of any game that doesn't look better in 320x200. Beautiful hi-res games scares me away, most of them are Myst-clones.
I'm interested to know why! o tell... I can't think of anything worse than pixellated graphics, although it does depend on the style of the game.
The graphics of Maniac Mansion and its ilk really suited them, but I'm pretty sure if the developers had what we do now then (figure that one out), things would've looked pretty different.
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| 23 FEB 2003 at 2:21am |
AnnakieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 20
Joined: 22 JAN 2003
Status : Online | Nice graphics are great. They certainly don't hurt. But if a game doesn't have an interesting story, or interesting and/or likeable characters, or something fun for me to do, beautiful graphics won't save it. If it does have these things, it doesn't matter to me so much if the graphics aren't stunning. Of course, if it has all that cool stuff and nifty graphics, I'm just thrilled!
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| 23 FEB 2003 at 10:49am |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By monkeybone (22 FEB 2003 10:39pm)
I'm interested to know why! Do tell... I can't think of anything worse than pixellated graphics, although it does depend on the style of the game.
You're an old AG'er who likes new games.
I'm a young AG'er who likes old games.
I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks. And young dogs to eat old bones.
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| 23 FEB 2003 at 11:46am |
StammerGuild Master
Posts : 3894
Joined: 5 JAN 2003
Status : Online | That's a good saying you have here Friday!!!
Resistance is not futile, we're gonna win this thing, humankind is too good, we're not a bunch of under-achievers! We're gonna stand up, and we're gonna be human beings. We're going to get fired up about the real things, the things that matter! Creativity, and the dynamic human spirit that refuses to submit.
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| 23 FEB 2003 at 1:49pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Godfather (23 FEB 2003 11:46am)
That's a good saying you have here Friday!!!
Yeah! Would you believe me if I said I made it up myself?
(irony)
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| 23 FEB 2003 at 2:42pm |
StammerGuild Master
Posts : 3894
Joined: 5 JAN 2003
Status : Online | nope, and noone did
Resistance is not futile, we're gonna win this thing, humankind is too good, we're not a bunch of under-achievers! We're gonna stand up, and we're gonna be human beings. We're going to get fired up about the real things, the things that matter! Creativity, and the dynamic human spirit that refuses to submit.
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| 23 FEB 2003 at 3:37pm |
judyannSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 319
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I can't think of a single game I have ever played where the graphics were awful, but I enjoyed the game. Pf course, bueaty is in the eye of the beholder.
On the other hand, I can remember gorgeous games that I didn't enjoy.
Graphics, like music, add to - or substract from - the atmosphere and enhance - or detract - from the playing experience. They don't have to be drop dead beautiful, but they do have to complement the story and the game play.
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| 23 FEB 2003 at 4:22pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By judyann (23 FEB 2003 3:37pm)
I can't think of a single game I have ever played where the graphics were awful, but I enjoyed the game.
Ultimerr! How do you define awful? Do you think KQ1 has awful grapfic?
Pf course, bueaty is in the eye of the beholder.
That one speaks for it self
Ofcoure releasing a low-res game wouldn't work today
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| 23 FEB 2003 at 5:20pm |
NellieSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 359
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I think we should bear in mind that technology doesn't equal aesthetics. Just because something is old, doesn't mean it can't look good. It'd be a pretty poor artist who couldn't create something attractive despite the limitations of a low resolution (320x200) and a low-colour palette.
So I too find low-res games attractive (and some stunning, such as Simon the Sorceror 1), though I also find high-res games attractive. I love being impressed by the skill of artists who can make beautiful things out of limited circumstances. For example, did you know that Curse of Monkey Island uses a 256-colour palette?
On topic, if graphics equalled gameplay, then text adventures would have no gameplay, and neither would Nethack (a popular and addictive roleplaying game that uses ASCII characters for 'graphics'), which is a silly statement because Nethack is purely about gameplay. So no, graphics definitely don't equal gameplay, because gameplay can exist without graphics. Perhaps we should be asking if graphics enhance gameplay?
To which the answer would be... er... it depends on the game.
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