| 29 OCT 2008 at 12:15pm |
An_InklingSpace Cadet
Posts : 171
Joined: 20 JUN 2008
Status : Online | 1: Do you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
Yes, but only as a niche, for the forseeable future.
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going?
Mostly PC.
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed?
Receded from its peak, but increasing more recently after a deeper trough (pure gut feel, no idea about actual numbers).
4: Do you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
Yes, and they do.
Small teams of 1 or not much more seem to be going quite strong at the moment. Certainly in the RPG genre (Spiderweb have been particularly successful over recent years).
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles?
If the audience is there, sure. But, as I said previously, I currently see point and clickers as very much niche titles.
I think the sub-genre is being hurt by a lack of interactivity. Outside of the puzzles (which seem to get fewer and less difficult by the game), there's just not very much to them. Objectively, as games, most P&Cs are weak. The fact that most modern P&Cs are made by small companies and are often of relatively poor quality, and certainly have lower production values than other genres, just goes to reinforce their niche status.
It used to be that you had to go to AGs to get a decent story, or at least engaging characters in a PC game. FPSs were mindless kill-a-thons, even RPGs were mostly grind-fests or high-fantasy defeat the ancient evil blandness. This is no longer the case. Storytelling is still mostly weak across all genres, but there are many more games that at least take a stab at it. Telling a story is no longer enough for an AG, and I don't think throwing in a few puzzles will attract gamers from other genres. To gain a larger audience P&Cs will need to do more and do it better than they currently are. I don't know whether this more is adding elements (action, mini-games), or making some real effort to evolve areas not given great focus in other genres (NPC interaction, non-combat play not just story exposition and puzzles, non-linear storytelling).
Change is not necessary (I certainly still enjoy playing them), but without it, I'm quite certain P&Cs will remain a rather small niche. Good action-adventures (even a number of FPSs and RPGs) do most of what they try to do, with better production values and more for the player to do.
Who is this great burdensome slavering dog-thing that mediocres my every thought? ([i]Nick Cave - We Call Upon the Author[/i])
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 1:44pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
1: Do you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
Yes, especially through targeted niche marketing.
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going?
Mostly PC for pure point and click, plus limited apps for handhelds.
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed?
Receded for sure. Hey, the competition from other genres on all systems is fierce.
4: Do you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
No, not in terms of commerical success. Even the smallest studios need third party talent for voice-overs, animations, etc. No one person can do it all and do it well.
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles?
No major publishers that do mass marketing. But smaller ones might and a couple still do.
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 5:17pm |
colpetSchattenjger
Posts : 1630
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Offline | 1: Do you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
Yes, but it is mostly for an established population, unless the marketing changes. I still think that Adventure games should be marketed alongside books. There is a huge population of older folks that love to read and would be interested in something that tells a story and challenges the brain cells - without violence/combat, etc.
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going?
PC would be most universal. I would never consider buying a console for Adventure gaming.
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed?
I think it has receded, but amongst the community, interest is still at a high.
4: Do you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
Absolutely. One word - Rhem. One of my most favorite recent game series is a one-man production.
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles?
It would only be publishers that target the adventure niche market.
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 0063722 .&&
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 5:42pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1652
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | 1: Do you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
"Market" is the key word. That market is shrinking, like the market for a typewriter or analog TV has. Developers should identify and gather the loyal customers now, and they might own the niche.
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going?
What "future" platforms? I don't know. I think the PC has outgrown them. Perhaps more cartoony games.
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed?
Receded. I think the customers, especially those in this forum, are hungry for just about anything good. Give us good and you'll sell more point-and-clicks.
4: Do you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
A lay person would think so, but no product truly exists--no matter how good--until it is marketed and sold well. So, no. Plus, there are so many ways to publicize and promote products today, that no one person could handle it effectively.
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles?
If it were my money and my future, no. However, there are some brilliant people out there and developers whose names are more visible than their titles, so who knows. Where there's a niche, there's a salesperson with a product. More and more, niche marketing is a way to make consistent sales, rather than the big risks of attempting mass-market and/or cross-platform success. Discovering a niche and defining it to its members via marketing is a tough but sure way to consistently satisfied sales. Ask any book publisher.
_________________
Exercise your vision.
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 5:59pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Just a sidenote to Colpet -
Knut Müller listed quite a few "advisors" (collaborators) in several different capacities for both the PC and Mac in the original Rhem credits. He did not do the voiceover, text editing, translation or the bulk of the testing. Not sure how much the others did in the areas of programming and 2D/3D work. But he gives some highlighted credit to Stefan Stoske for both. It appears as if he also had help on the website.
So as much as Knut did (and quite well I might add), it was not really a one-man production. I also assume that he has at least a small staff now and many more third-party contributors - not to mention a real publisher.
Cheers, Terry
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 6:37pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2539
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | Yes, point and click is just as valid today as it has ever been and several very good titles are out or in production now. The rest of your questions revolve around the dyanmcis of the game industry and you are best researching them for yourself, our opinions will vary based on our experince, but most of us are players of games, and not producers..... and the game industry right now is ruled by and large by high ticket fast action hyperactive clone games of little or no value. So this is a hard time to make value judgments that are not based on your own research. I would encourage you to just read around on the main game forums of the main games. That will give you a lot of insight.
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3D Worlds and Game Developers
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 6:48pm |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | 1: Do you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
Sure, the Frogware Sherlock Holmes games sell in the hundreds of thousands, the CSI games have sold millions. We can argue all day about the merits of these games but hey, lots of people DO play them, therefore there is a market out there
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going?.
Consoles are kind of wasted in a point and click environment, PC is the future
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed?
Receded, this isn't purely due to the perceived lack of quality of more recent games - its also a symptom of how attention spans and the wiilingness to make any effort to entertain ourselves has diminished in the last 20 years
4: Do you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
There are individuals making fairly interesting half hour long flash based games, and using the old Sierra engine but they LOOK horrible and in this day and age people expect a polished looking product. Even if the gameplay is excellent games won't sell if they don't have eye candy and its the eye candy that is most expensive and difficult to create. In short, only a total genius could pull it all together
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles?
It will get tougher as the term 'point and click' becomes ever more pejorative and ridiculed by mainstream reviewers. Publishers in any field want nice strap lines they can use to promote their products, its a lot better if those positive quotes come from an 'objective' or well -regarded external source..
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 7:50pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | 1: Do you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
Very much so, although I have to agree it's a niche market which I would guess consists of a greater proportion of female & more mature to elderly players.
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going?
They could in theory be suited to any platform where a gamepad can be swapped for a mouse (or any future equivalent gadget) which at the moment is still the most ideal accessory for a P & C interface. And why not?! consols are produced for playing games but I think it's a swings & roundabouts situation (EDIT: wrong expression - I should have said catch 22!) - people who play P & Cs won't buy a consol because there's not enough produced therefore if one's produced it doesn't sell very well!
As for the direction P & Cs are going in - apart from graphics gradually improving, I've thought that a few developers have worked to try & make stories flow more realistically through dialogue, use of inventory & problem solving puzzles, but there seems to be more of a trend to incorporate too much of what developers think players want resulting in reasonable stories played through in a formulaic almost bland way with an over abundance of 'puzzle' puzzles. I'm just hoping that P & Cs aren't going to evolve into more elaborate 'casual games'
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed?
The interest, since their introduction, has very much receded as technology has progressed. I think games, for the most part, have always been targeted at a much younger mainly male market & as technology has progressed other genres have evolved/progressed to capture this market (& also children) leaving P & C's behind. I think there is the potential for interest to increase if only larger producers would think about targeting more of the category of player who is currently buying them & advertise on a much wider scale outside of niche gamesites.
4: Do you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
I'd like to think so! But I don't have enough knowledge about game production to give an opinion!
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles?
There must be enough people at the moment buying P & Cs as there are a few smaller game publishers producing them & there seems to have been an increase in P & Cs generally over the last few years. I think while they are selling & bringing in enough revenue future titles will be developed.
Good luck with your dissertation DegreeStudent :exclamation [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Will we get to read it?
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 9:14pm |
DegreeStudentIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 6
Joined: 29 OCT 2008
Status : Online | I will indeed post the dissertation should anyone wish for a giggle when it is completed in January. Thanks for all your input so far. I have contacted a few good professional sources with the same five questions and I'm looking for just general views from Adventure game enthusiasts. Any ideas welcome and thanks again.
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| 29 OCT 2008 at 11:42pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | 1: o you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
Certainly.
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going?
They'd be suited to anything with a pointing device, whether it's a mouse, a stylus, or a wiimote. There are even point-and-click games adapted for cell phones. Though not every game is suitable for a handheld, many are. With ScummVM you can even play the old LucasArts adventures on your handheld.
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed?
I think the interest of consumers has grown. More people own computers than ever. Unfortunately big game companies seem to mainly be interested only in potential blockbusters -- which doesn't mean point-and-click adventure games. Many computers lack the system requirements for these "blockbuster" games and not every consumer is capable of playing them (or even enjoys such games). Fortunately there are smaller companies that don't neglect gamers who enjoy slower-paced, point-and-click adventure games.
4: o you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
Depends on how you define successful. There are certainly people who can put together a game that is enjoyed by its target audience and will make a profit. But I don't see any huge moneymakers coming from one person.
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles?
They will in Germany with companies like dtp. But I don't think the big game publishers in the US are going to be interested. They are only interested in potential blockbusters that are targeted toward a very specific demographic. Lighthouse Interactive, which publishes some adventure games, is European-based. So is JoWooD, which bought Dreamcatcher/Adventure Company. GotGameEntertainment is US-based, but still a small publisher. Telltale Games is still small, but growing. So smaller companies and European companies are continuing to provide point-and-click adventure games and there are a lot more being made now than there were a few years ago.
One problem point-and-click adventures seem to have is that they tend to sell well over time, rather than selling in huge quantities when they are first released. Combine this with the difficulty of even finding new point-and-click releases in local shops, and the actual demand for them is probably a lot more than what the sales numbers may show. Gone are the days when you could visit a game shop and have a huge selection to choose from. I have to do almost all my buying online now.
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| 30 OCT 2008 at 2:31am |
An_InklingSpace Cadet
Posts : 171
Joined: 20 JUN 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (29 OCT 2008 11:42pm)
4: Do you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
Depends on how you define successful. There are certainly people who can put together a game that is enjoyed by its target audience and will make a profit. But I don't see any huge moneymakers coming from one person.
Yeah. No question that one person can make a game (no more difficult than it used to be, in fact it's actually easier). Also no doubt that one person can make a good game (even better in many regards to those with higher production values). But, they can not make a game that will compete with the AAA titles for sales (duh!). Back when there really weren't any AAA titles, it was feasible for games developed by small teams to be among the top sellers.
On the programming side of it, it's perfectly feasible for a one or two man team to code an entire game (still happens plenty - see indie games). In fact, this approach can lead to better software than a large unwieldy team. The main barrier to a one or two man team would usually be the art, voicework (though the latter is an optional extra) and maybe writing.
Who is this great burdensome slavering dog-thing that mediocres my every thought? ([i]Nick Cave - We Call Upon the Author[/i])
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| 30 OCT 2008 at 11:55am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By darrencampbelluk (29 OCT 2008 9:14pm)
I will indeed post the dissertation should anyone wish for a giggle when it is completed in January. Thanks for all your input so far. I have contacted a few good professional sources with the same five questions and I'm looking for just general views from Adventure game enthusiasts. Any ideas welcome and thanks again.
Ahhh...... not a southern hemisphere student then. Good luck. I didn't post comments because I couldn't add anything new.
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| 4 NOV 2008 at 4:04pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2751
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | 1: Do you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
Yes, and while adventure games wont take the "top spot", they are cheap enough to produce, and there are enough people who want to take the peacfull puzzlesolving/story approach, rather than strategy or action.
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going?
The PC & DS, mainly, as their controlls are well suited for the format, altough i could imagine AGs for all console types. More Wii adventure games would be nice.
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed?
If you see it over a 15year period: receded, if you see it over a 5 year period: grown. Adventure games seem to be more popular today than they were 5 years ago, with the introduction of episodic adventures & DS adventure games. A lot of the series from the "golden age of adventures" has reached a classic status, and people are beginning to talk fondly about them, and how much they would love to see another part in their favorite AG series.
4: o you think one independent person could make a successful game today?
Yes, certenly, but if we want to see AGs return to their former glory, more big budget titles has to be released.
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles?
Yes, as long as they dont cost too much to produce, and the market is large enough, there will always be companies that are interested in developing AGs.
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| 15 NOV 2008 at 6:43am |
Goddess of All Things MagicalSchattenjger
Posts : 1565
Joined: 27 MAY 2003
Status : Online | 1. Definitely point and click games are treasured by adventure gamers. I never want to see the demise of point and click games.
Afterall, that's what sets adventure gaming apart from console gaming.
Moving the PC directional buttons can be as nerve wracking as as hammering XBOX controls.
The popularity of BIG FISH games should be an indicator that there is a large niche of casual adult gamers that could easily become point and click adventure gamers.
&&&&Listening to XM Radio Starbucks Cafe Channel 45&&[IMG]http://img227.echo.cx/img227/8458/dancelikenooneiswatching6ld.png[/IMG]
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| 15 NOV 2008 at 11:31am |
| Deleted User | Hello DegreeStudent
This doesn't answer your questions directly but it is a statistical aside on the adventures market.
Have you seen PAGODA? http://www.pagodagamedatabase.com/years.php
If their figures are accurate then 2008 has been the quietest year for PAC adventure since 1991. But that may just be the calm before the storm, because according to Gameboomers, http://www.gameboomers.com/Adventureinformation.htm, some 70-odd games in this genre are 'awaited' - which suggests 2009 could be a bumper year.
For me, the question that raises is whether this is just market self-correction, reverting to mean - or the beginning of a longer-term sector resurgence after bottoming out in 2008.
Very keen to read your eventual conclusions, if you will be publishing them.
Best,
Noel Bruton
Arberth Studios
Developer 'Rhiannon: Curse of the Four Branches'
www.rhiannongame.co.uk
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| 15 NOV 2008 at 3:21pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I guess the 2008 totals could be a bit inaccurate if you don't include the hybrids. I haven't looked through the Pagoda database, but shouldn't it be counting such games as Women's Murder Club and the host of other VERY adventure-ish casual games that have been coming out?
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| 21 NOV 2008 at 12:41pm |
DegreeStudentIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 6
Joined: 29 OCT 2008
Status : Online | Thanks so much everyone for your help, everything is coming along. Can anyone think of a recent point and click adventure game either for the wii or PC etc that has done quiet well. Need to boost my research into current games badly. Going to bemuse pagoda now. Thanks again
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| 21 NOV 2008 at 1:38pm |
| Deleted User | As regards recently popular PAC adventures, there's a list at InteractCD:
http://www.interactcd.com/toptwenty/
And of course, there's The Lost Crown, not mentioned on that list, but seems to be going strong at Amazon.
Cheers
Noel Bruton
Arberth Studios
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| 21 NOV 2008 at 8:20pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | One of the 'flies in the ointment' for the potential growth of the AG market that I can see is the strong & seemingly growing market for 'Casual' games. These seem to appeal to many that fall into the same category of people that buy AGs. I buy a few but the novelty of Hidden Object Games has worn off & I personally have got very bored with so many flooding the market. I won't stop buying AGs - although some of the Casual games are a nice diversion here & there.
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| 21 NOV 2008 at 9:13pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | 1: Do you think there is a market for future point and click adventure games?
Yes, of course there is. Market - however - is they key word. The game makers and distrubutors need to realize that us older players are playing (adventure) games on the pc, too. The marketing therefore needs to change to cater to our needs, I find.
One of the newer point and click games is Testament of Sin This game, whose demo I'm currenly playing has an intuitive gameplay as well as an intuive point and click system. It is also in 3D. That's the way I want to seee adventure games progressing.
2: What future platforms (if any) would they be suited to and in what direction are they going? Well, the Wii and the Nintendo DS seem to be the place to be - for (any) adventure games these days. Adventure games seem to be a hit on the pc as well. It seems to me mostly detective games in any genre that is released - but that's what sells today, I think?
3: Do you think interest has grown or receded as the years have progressed? Hard to say --- back in the 1970's or the 1980's the adventure game genre seemed to be the only genre for the pc. Being made by 'nerds' and played by 'nerds' at the universities. Then in the 1990s the game genres expanded with the rpgs, and the fps shooters. More people than back then play adventure games. My guess is that about the same amount play adventure games, but the market has just gotten bigger and bigger.
4: o you think one independent person could make a successful game today? No, I don't. Even a succesfull rpg like Drakensang had a team working on it. And a cost production value of about 2½-3 million Euro (5-6 millin us dollars). Even our own Alkis's game 'diamonds in the rough' had a few people working on it. Rhiannon - the Curse of the four branches also had 3-4 people working on it. At least. The Carol Reed games are being made by 1-2 people, I think? But if they're succesful? Maybe; if by successfull you mean 'make a lot of money', I don't think anyone would say they are. The Swedish couple who makes the game seems content, though..
5: Finally do you think games publishers would still take an interest in developing future titles? That depends on how well the games sell; how well the adventure game community back up the games by buying them. As said above, publishers seem to take an interest in supporting detective games since they know they sells - and by that I mean any detective game - including the ones that dabble and deal with the supernatural
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