Originally Posted By Rael (21 FEB 2003 7:34pm)
Yes Michal, but you have self-control. There's people that don't know when to stop.

BTW, I forgot to add - I believe people that "destroy" their health (indirectly) endangers other people in almost every case. Take smoking for instance.

Originally Posted By Petter_Holmberg (21 FEB 2003 7:58pm)
You're saying that making drugs illegal promotes crime and general disrespect of the law. If you're refering to the drug use itself, you're certainly right, because it wouldn't be considered crime and disrespect of the law if it wasn't illegal. :

But if you're talking about all the drug-related criminal activities, why would legalizing drugs reduce the other crimes? If they were legal, more people would be using drugs, right?

The problem with the second point is that people's free will is all fine when they're not entoxicated. But when people get drunk or high or whatever, they lose control.

Originally Posted By MichalN (21 FEB 2003 7:16pm)
I'd put it like this - there is no way in hell you're going to stop people from using drugs so why not make it legal and at least collect some taxes?

There are two primary reasons for legalizing at least the "light" drugs:

1) Making drugs illegal quite clearly does not make them go away. Perhaps on the contrary. It just promotes crime and general disrespect of the law. If you can't fight 'em, join 'em.

2) As long as they are not endangering others (ie. drinking and driving), people should have the right to destroy their own health as much as they want to. I certainly don't want anyone telling me what I can or can't do.

Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (21 FEB 2003 8:32pm)
1) Making drugs illegal doesn't make drugs disappear but it definitely reduces drug use considerably.

2) Using drugs endagers others.

3) Prohibition, whether you like it or not decreases use...

Big example is the example of smoking.

4) People may have the right to hurt theirselves as you say, but people also go through difficult times and during these difficult times they might see drugs as paradise or as the way out...

I find it really egoistic to think that everybody should take care of themselves. I think we should all help each other on such serious issues...

Originally Posted By MichalN (21 FEB 2003 8:52pm)

Surely you have some solid figures to prove that assertion? How much is it? 80%? 50%? 20%?

Driving cars endangers others. Accidents do happen every day and thousands of people die every year due to car use. I suggest that we outlaw cars to preserve the lives of the innocents. But it was for the greater good!

Numbers please...

Is it illegal to buy cigarettes? If it is not, how is that prohibition? Explain this to me please.

So instead of helping them, you just make drug use illegal. What a neat solution!

Helping people against their will usually has very nasty side effects. Communists also wanted to help everybody and ended up killing millions in the process.

Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (21 FEB 2003 9:20pm)
Since I have a life though... I'd rather not. Well to talk seriously (for a change) even if it was 1% ,which I'm quite sure that it is MUCH more than that, it would still be worth it.

Driving is a completely irrelevant example since 1) not everybody who drives endagers his or other people's lives if he/she drives carefully and 2) it is necessary ...drugs aren't

It is not illegal to buy cigarettes but it is illegal to smoke them inside closed spaces so yes it is not total prohibition but partly...and it has results so imagine what a total prohibition would do.

As for the communist example I don't have much more to say other than that it is another totally irellevant example.

Originally Posted By MichalN (21 FEB 2003 9:31pm)

So you are claiming that prohibition reduces drug use without having seen one single study supporting that? Do I get this right?

1) Which must be why every single drug user endangers others? Have you ever been drunk? How much damage have you done?  Do you think it is impossible to use any kind of drugs carefully? 2) Cars are necessary? Have you ever heard the about the times before 20th century?

Yes, I can imagine that. It would create a nice little black market, smuggling, tax evasion and all the other associated benefits.

It is very relevant. Now don't take this too personally please but you would be a perfect communist. You are an idealist and you have the zeal. You are willing to make the world a better place and you don't care if others disagree with you. You know what's best for the world at large. You know that people are weak and need to be helped.

Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (21 FEB 2003 9:46pm)
1) drugs are not so available as they would be if they were legal
2) It is not so easy to go around and start offering people drugs as you might offer a cigarette

As for the word unecessary (cars) ...wrong word...put the word useful instead. Cars are useful. How are drugs useful in any way? The make your health a total piece of shit, makes you a wreck and even messes up your memory and your mental health (in case of marijuana).

In the case of the cigarettes... I agree, maybe there would be a black market. But what is the point here? What do you put on top priority? The money the state gets so that politicians can sit their fat asses on the 2.000.000$ buffes in the white house or the health of all the people? I put as top priority the second.

Well I don't know if I would make a perfect communist, but I know for a fact that I am not one...and no offence taken.

Originally Posted By emma (21 FEB 2003 10:13pm)
Am I to understand these comments as to wether or not alcohol should be allowed? Instead of legalising drugs, "illegalise" alcohol?

I like Godfathers idea, getting high on love, beautiful!

Originally Posted By emma (21 FEB 2003 10:44pm)
*giggles* Okay, you sound a bit bitter there honey!

I'm sure nobody would wanna do that! Let's not forget, some addictions are actually GOOD for you!  

Originally Posted By MichalN (21 FEB 2003 8:21pm)
What gives you (or anyone else) the right to stop them?

And you failed to address my point #1, which is no less important. Probably because you know you can't argue with that

Originally Posted By Godfather (21 FEB 2003 6:47pm)




anyone who wants to get 'high' can simply fall in love!!!!

Originally Posted By Rael (22 FEB 2003 2:08am)

From my completely elitist POV (

), you can't let most people "do what they want". No, I'm not talking here of an Orwellian control-system but we can certainly agree on something: healthier is good for anyone. So you must take action to avoid people becoming sick simply because they .

What if people just "tries" drugs and becomes addicted? I can tell you, that would be a bigger problem.

Originally Posted By Malia G (22 FEB 2003 2:42am)
 I think you have a point here: if you want to control other people action -because they  can't measure the consequences as you state above- then you'll probably impose an Orwellian control-system...

With a couple of exceptions (heroine comes to my mind), most drugs require a persistent consume to turn a person into an addict.