Originally Posted By Camaroboy1968 (8 DEC 2008 5:13pm)
Excellent points made Traveler.  My Mom teaches fourth grade so I know all to well the detrimental effects these games have on their study habits and personal development.  I'm pleased though, that right now my nine year old nephew is more interested in architectural design using a three dimensional design program from LEGO than in video games.

Originally Posted By Caroline (8 DEC 2008 9:14am)
I agree with you here Traveler.  Case in point: about 12 yrs ago two 10 yr old boys (Thompson & Venables) tortured and killed a 2 yr old in Bootle, UK.  Turns out the father of one lad had given them an explicitly violent video to watch that week and they literally re-enacted the movie on this little boy.  

Originally Posted By loobiloo (8 DEC 2008 8:34pm)

Originally Posted By Caroline (8 DEC 2008 9:14am)
I agree with you here Traveler.  Case in point: about 12 yrs ago two 10 yr old boys (Thompson & Venables) tortured and killed a 2 yr old in Bootle, UK.  Turns out the father of one lad had given them an explicitly violent video to watch that week and they literally re-enacted the movie on this little boy.  

I remember that case so well & the two 'boys' are now free (in their 20's) & have anonymity for life. I think the worse thing about it was that it seemed so pre-meditated & so cruel.  It was thankfully a very rare crime but I will only believe that there was one perpetrator & the other followed - I, as many many people did, found it appalling that anyone can attack a toddler least of all other children.  

I personally don't think one video game was to blame in itself - by the time children have reached the age of 10  they should have some idea of what's right & wrong.  The fact that they were exposed to a video beforehand only indicates the lack of any responsibilty by parents/guardians - their attitude & morals marring any healthy/moral outlook on life for these boys quite a few years before they reached that age. It has got to be an accummulation of experiences to have led one of them to perpetrate this vile act! Not one exposure to a video game!  

Originally Posted By CrisGer (29 SEP 2008 7:01pm)

I suspect that depression, drugs, mental instability and bad parenting are far more likely to create an unbalanced teen who rampages through his school than any amount of Doom or Mortal Kombat.

says it all. Violence is part of life and reality, but i tend to think reasonable and rational balance is much healthier than repression and not talking ....

great thread!

a great resource on this is here:

http://www.justadventure.com/articles/ViolenceRatingsRegs/VRR_toc.shtm  by Karla Munger

Originally Posted By loobiloo (8 DEC 2008 10:36pm)
A video & not a video game - I stand corrected Traveler! And yes - I agree that 10 year olds do not have the maturity to be left alone for long lengths of time without any supervision - but I do disagree that they don't have any basic sense of right or wrong. Okay, it might not be so highly developed that they can't be led astray & bullying is probably not uncommon amongst this age group as they don't understand the implications for the victim. But in a childs world 'bullying' is a world apart from deliberate acts of cruelty towards a 'baby' &  subsequent murder.

The worst thing is the lack of conscience - I knew at the age of 7 years old that I was doing wrong when I pushed a boy off a high wall & knew that he could be badly hurt.  Luckily he was okay but I didn't do it out of spite - I did it because he was bullying my brother & wouldn't go away!  A childs own sense of morality may not have been developed by the age of 10 but certainly by then they should have instilled in them some understanding of what's accepatable & what's not. But, it does all come down to making sure that your children aren't unsupervised for long periods - sadly, some parents due to their own problems end up at the very least neglectful & at the most warping the outlook of thier children.  

It's a criminal offence to leave children under 13 unsupervised in the home & the parents/carers can be prosecuted for it  - so what the hell are two 10 year olds doing out on their own anyway????        

Originally Posted By TheTraveler (8 DEC 2008 9:41am)

Anyone who has children will know that kids copy what they witness onscreen though.

Originally Posted By TheTraveler (8 DEC 2008 9:41am)

No, of course a movie in itself, no matter how horrible, conceivably wouldn't cause anyone to perform an act so heinous, otherwise the world would probably be even more full of atrocities than it already is.  It could act as a trigger to children/people who are already unstable with antisocial personalities, though.

Originally Posted By An_Inkling (13 DEC 2008 5:24am)

Originally Posted By TheTraveler (8 DEC 2008 9:41am)

Anyone who has children will know that kids copy what they witness onscreen though.

Some children copy some viewed content, yes. But, if copying is the main concern, in terms of affected behaviour, then it's on-screen violence that is the real issue, not how graphic it is. In fact, a decent argument could be made that detailed gore would act against an "urge to copy". Continuing along this line, violence between human-like combatants without any gore or serious consequences, could be seen as the most dangerous kind. This has been a common complaint against cartoon violence.

Anyway, this argument is largely moot, as copying without filter is a part of early childhood. Such children are not likely to be playing or viewing video games enough to be affected. If they are, they are even less likely to be able to copy the violence to any serious degree.

The main reasons put forward for video game violence being beyond that of television or movies are: the player is an active participant in events; player sees things from the POV of the "perpetrator", increasing the level of identification; greater level of repetition, which increases learning; reward system that games are built around also increases learning.

Following from this, the argument against video game violence seems to be more "learn by doing" and desensitisation increasing the propensity for violence, than "copying what they see". It does make intuitive sense that participating in violent activity for long periods of time could increase the time spent thinking about violent responses, and may increase the likelihood to see violence as a valid response in real life. The question is whether video game violence is too far removed from reality to have any significant effect.

Even if we could prove greater levels of "violence" among those who play violent video games (some studies have concluded this). We would then need to quantify the level of violence. Is the increased level explained by kids play-acting? Nothing more serious than cops and robbers type games? Or do games really have the capacity to engender serious anti-social behaviour?

In the end there are conflicting studies on the issue, and those that have been conducted seem inadequate. I certainly think parents should exercise caution, just as they should with TV and movies, but I do not think an over-reactive complete ban on those under 18 playing violent video games is warranted, such rigidity has its own risks. As in all things, balance and variety seems to be the answer.  

Originally Posted By TheTraveler (13 DEC 2008 6:48am)

Oh, absolutely, AnInkling. Didn't I even state in one of my earlier posts that I thought the danger of Videogames specifically is that in the game, you yourself are the perpetrator of the deed, and therefore, it feels as if you yourself are doing it, and that tends to desensitise you.

Originally Posted By TheTraveler (13 DEC 2008 6:48am)

I like that you seem to enjoy writing a lot, AnInkling.

Originally Posted By TheTraveler (13 DEC 2008 6:48am)

my personal conclusion had been that children should be exposed to on-screen violence in a gradual and guided way, as they grow up.  Certainly by the time they are 16 years of age I doubt that I would still try and filter much from them - provided that they are balanced, intelligent, mature young persons.  

Originally Posted By TheTraveler (13 DEC 2008 6:48am)

Yet there is material that can still be disturbing even to adults. I remember viewing that movie with Dennis Quad as a mercenary in Bosnia, as an adult, and actually bawling my eyes out; and feeling disturbed about the whole story for a long, long time afterwards, the more so because of the knowledge that it was based on the truth.

Originally Posted By AShadowWalker (7 MAR 2010 9:49pm)
So.....nobody ever played Postal?  [smiley=shrug.gif]