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| 24 SEP 2008 at 10:18pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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A good analysis yes, but very long and very dry - almost like a technical manual.
Cheers, Terry
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| 25 SEP 2008 at 3:54pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Mark works in this area. I think he told us all about "what is a game"...specifically, adventure games. The text is long but always focused in adventure premisses. IMO, this is the best start to develop good adventures. If developers really knows the gamer's perspective and the ways the players interact with adventures, they will have the most powerfull know-how to build excellent games. This is I call "adventure phillosophy".
 &&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 25 SEP 2008 at 5:44pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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Oh please don't get me wrong Jamarchand. It is a very well thought out, in-depth analysis of adventure games. But it is not aimed so much at consumers as it is developers. That's why it reads more like a technical manual or an industry white paper than a general news article.
Cheers, Terry
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| 25 SEP 2008 at 7:42pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
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Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | An interesting read.
I occupy a part of the strange niche Mark is in, computers = thinking about= games ...whats it all about? and have been working on this for some years now.
I am not sure Mark gets the point of why to talk about Adventure games for his article is a point by point description of basic ways that the games' mechanics work and is therefore not at all new or really interesting to either a normal (not technical) reader or an advanced games researcher or developer. i.e. this is stuff we really need to know and internalize or we would not be at all interested in Adventuere Games to start with. I admire his determination to list everything but he just starts getting to the point of why adventure games in the very last paragraph:
"Obviously, in addition to their puzzles, adventure games are often played and enjoyed for features such as lush environments, memorable characters, compelling plots, wit, and humor—but such topics are beyond the scope of this article. Having a manageable interface and understanding the nature of the game's puzzles and their complexity is a problem worth pursuing on its own."
The mechanics of Puzzles is NOT the essence of adventure games, it is the story and the "adventure" the mystery and the fun of discovery and particpation..hands on, in a differnt world or time or place or story than our own. So it does not really matter how complex or easy or difficult the puzzles are if we enjoy the story. If we dont, no magnificent puzzling is going to rescue it.
But i dont mean to criticize Mark for he shared this mistake and challenge with much of the modern game industry..they have forgotten the magic.....why we loved some of the earliest and most wonderful games as much as some of the most recent and wonderful ones....the Kyrandias, the Quests of various kinds, the LucasArts games, Loom comes to mind, as well as TLJ, and The Broken Swords, the Cryo games (thought they had puzzles that were fiendish at times) and some of the latest.
In the end, linear is NOT the way to go, being forced or controlled is not the goal of an inspired game designer but led forward by the fun and the adventure. I keep looking in both old games and new for this magic and i feel it is coming back a bit, as ppl realize this. And again, thanks for the link and sharing this. And again, all the above is my opinion along, informed by my own experinece and research and your opinions may vary widely.
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| 25 SEP 2008 at 8:31pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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Although the article does have a few personal sides, I don't think it was intended to be an opinion piece, but rather an in-depth anaylsis of the fundamental elements that are commonly used in AGs - along with a little factual history. In that regard, I thought it was quite interesting and informative.
Cheers, Terry
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| 25 SEP 2008 at 8:51pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2538
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | I agree, and did not mean to sound too critical, i just felt and feel that some of the challenges the modern game world faces is that ppl have forgotten or not know that the heart of an adventure game is its story, not the mechanics.....and tho i was eager to see this article, from the descriptions and hope always to see new or good work on adventure games.......the details that he describes are so basic that it does not help do what he is saying he wants to do....
"What makes a game a game?"
what makes a game a game is that it is fun.... and he loses sight of that almost immediately...which is my concern not just in this article but in the entire direction gaming has taken.....and which it can recover from and many games are ok in....
but it was a very interesting article to read and i am glad he wrote it and it was shared here.
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| 2 OCT 2008 at 8:19pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (25 SEP 2008 5:44pm)
.
Oh please don't get me wrong Jamarchand. It is a very well thought out, in-depth analysis of adventure games. But it is not aimed so much at consumers as it is developers. That's why it reads more like a technical manual or an industry white paper than a general news article.
Cheers, Terry
Frankly, Terry. All the things Mark said are exactally what I think about adventure genre. The"breaf technical part" was added to explain us "gamers" how adventures can be constructed. This is my opinion....if you disagree, I have nothing against your point of view.
In few words, my brief concept of "pure"adventures is "A voyage thru cognitive challenges inside a story"
There are many ways to develop this concept; Some are good, some are medium, some are bad....and the funny (or not) of development's choices, vary from player to player.
&&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 2 OCT 2008 at 8:37pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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There is little to nothing in that article to disagree with Jamarchand.
Like I said, it is a well-written, well-researched piece that basically defines the genre, offers a brief history of it and then dissects the various common components used in AGs.
Cheers, Terry
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| 2 OCT 2008 at 10:11pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
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Status : Offline | Which is precisely why I couldn't manage more than four or five lines before quitting.
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| 3 OCT 2008 at 1:23am |
jamarchandSchattenjger
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Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | People tend to don't give the real dimension of Mark's adventure description. It was obvious? It was technical? It was extended? Maybe.
But...if you want to build a good product, you must understand the essence of this product. What is an adventure game? What tools developers should use to construct a good adventure? What is the real best and funniest conceptions to captivate the adv costumers?
First of all, is necessary DEFINES the "thing".
&&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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