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| 7 NOV 2008 at 2:13pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I don't know what type of copy protection Riddle of the Tomb uses, but I keep my gaming computer offline and don't remember having to connect the computer to the Internet to "activate" the game.
SecuROM didn't used to be so awful, but now that Sony (the rootkit company) has acquired them...
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| 7 NOV 2008 at 4:15pm |
karlaAdministrator
Posts : 2613
Joined: 27 JUL 2003
Location: US, Close to the Edge
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (7 NOV 2008 1:52pm)
Originally Posted By karla (6 NOV 2008 1:58am)
And that's all I have. Call me paranoid, but it's enough to induce me not to install the game, at least for now. I've had a lot of computer problems recently, some tied to SecuROM -- and I'd rather not risk adding more. [smiley=eww.gif]
Ok, you're paranoid. Securom has been around since the very early windows days. It's been used in tons of games, and I'm willing to bet you've never even noticed. It wasn't until recently that Securom's name was even known by most gamers, due to the new online-activation version.
My guess is this isn't the online-checking version. The Adventure Company hasn't used that yet as far as I know. The problems you say Securom caused - are you sure they are related? A lot of folks blamed Starforce for PC problems meanwhile they were completely irrational and had nothing to do with the DRM (not to say Starforce isn't a pain in the ass, but it's not as bad as folks make it out to be)
Well, as I said on the second page of this thread:
Everlight has SecuROM. I was supposed to review the game and I can't even get it to run. After it checks the disc (pointer turns into a small spinning disc) nothing happens. Not even an error message. Everything just stops.
I wasn't able to uninstall the game and had to use System Restore to get rid of it. Then I reinstalled it, which I wouldn't have done if I hadn't been writing a review. Unfortunately, nothing changed.
I've looked for information about this problem online, but all I've found are people who are having similar problems. I haven't come across any solutions. Needless to say, I won't be reviewing Everlight. I won't be recommending it to anyone, either.
_________________
Now, I don't claim to know a lot about the finer points of DRM, but it sure seemed to me that SecuROM was interfering with my starting the game. Interestingly, Randy assigned the review to another person but the game wouldn't run for her, either.
Subsequently, I had more problems uninstalling Everlight. Both the game's uninstaller and add/remove programs did nothing but freeze up, and I was unable to use System Restore as I had before -- my restore points suddenly stopped working.
With some perseverance I finally did manage to get the game uninstalled, but not before Windows had crashed a few times.
I'm not saying that all of this stuff was a direct result of SecuROM, but there was sure something wrong somewhere.
BTW, I only discovered that Everlight came with SecuROM by trying to start the game without a disk in the drive (after I couldn't get it to start any other way). I was promptly scolded by SecuROM for doing so.
Incidentally, the use of SecuROM isn't mentioned in the EULA for Everlight. I read every word of it before I attempted the first install.
So at this point, I feel it would be wise to avoid TAC games for awhile. I have no problem with DRM when it doesn't screw around with my computer and/or render games unplayable. But I have a big problem with it when it does.
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| 8 NOV 2008 at 4:03pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Do you use AVG? Apparently AVG identifies the game executable as malware and deletes it.
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| 8 NOV 2008 at 7:04pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Karla - you still haven't given me any reason to suspect Securom. In fact it reminds me of folks who immediately blame Vista for all their problems - despite 95% of PC problems being hardware or driver based.
Honestly - if securom *were* the cause then no one would be able to run it. Think about it. Every single copy of this game has it. So are you telling me if I went out and bought it I wouldn't be able to run it on my PC? I doubt it, or else the company would be a deep hole.
So no, I don't think Securom has to do with it at all. Especially since you've not listed your specs, drivers or anything else to even give hints as to why it isn't working.
I'm sorry if I sound condescending as I don't mean to be, but I work in IT. I hear this sort of baseless stuff all the time lobbed at Microsoft Office, Vista or hell even certain models of laptops. One person was convinced that when we gave them a new monitor their PC ran better. :-X
Also I'm telling you - many games you have installed or played in the past use Securom. It's that simple. Securom is THE most popular disc check method, especially before all this online checking business became popular. Avoiding securom would mean missing out on half the PC game industry.
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| 8 NOV 2008 at 8:42pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | I haven't come come across any games at all, yet, that I've bought on disc that have needed online activation.
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| 9 NOV 2008 at 1:40am |
karlaAdministrator
Posts : 2613
Joined: 27 JUL 2003
Location: US, Close to the Edge
Status : Offline | @Jenny100: No, I don't use AVG. Which reminds me: immediately after I finally succeeded in uninstalling Everlight, I discovered that the AV program I do use had been blown to pieces. Luckily, I got it reinstalled without any problems.
@Avatar_58: It's possible I deduced incorrectly that Everlight's inability to start immediately after the disc was checked (which I presume is what the tiny spinning disc that appears when "Play" is clicked signifies) was caused by SecuROM. From what I've read, a lot of other folks are having problems getting the game to run. Maybe the culprit is something else on the Everlight disc.
All I know is that I started having problems with my computer, which has never given me a moment's trouble in the 2+ years I've owned it, directly after I installed Everlight. Maybe it was all just a big coincidence.
Rather than belabor the issue, I'd just as soon leave it at this: It appears that Everlight is a game that causes problems for some people, for any number of possible reasons. Does that sound better?
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| 9 NOV 2008 at 5:17pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Here's a link --> ***link*** to Oldmariner's user review of Everlight, where he describes the weird problem he had with Everlight trying to "phone home" when he started it up (check the second paragraph).
Oldmariner's problem was also discussed in ***this thread***, along with a problem from Claudie, who was able to play half the game before it suddenly decided to stop working.
I have the same probleme as oldmariner but me the game just don't start with this message about the game.exe. I've made more than the half of the game and now i can't even open it anymore!
From what I've found on the Internet, this is a "feature" of SecuROM's new "Trigger" functions:
Another feature recently added to the SecuRom *New* protection range is called "SecuRom *New* Trigger Functions" developed by Sony this protection allows game developers to program multiple and fully customizable authentication checks throughout the entire application. This protection can be activated at any time during normal game-play, the game will slowly degrade until it cant be played anymore, with such features as in-game textures not loading, in-game sound effects not loading and also the game crashing at certain major or important events during a game for no apparent reason. The feature dynamically arranges and rearranges the programmed code in a way which requires a bit-by-bit search to find the hidden checks making reverse-engineering attempts not only time-consuming but highly complicated.
So if your CD drive suddenly fails one of the mid-game checks, either because the drive is not the best reader or because the game disc isn't the best burn quality, there's no telling what will happen.
Another problem with SecuROM is that it won't allow your game to work if you have certain legitimate Microsoft Tools like Process Explorer installed because they "might" possibly be used for debugging.
http://forum.sysinternals.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11000
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| 9 NOV 2008 at 6:04pm |
SAMSpace Cadet
Posts : 148
Joined: 13 FEB 2004
Status : Online | "Tkes bit and pieces and rearranges them randomly...
Sounds like a bad virus
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| 9 NOV 2008 at 8:34pm |
karlaAdministrator
Posts : 2613
Joined: 27 JUL 2003
Location: US, Close to the Edge
Status : Offline | Thanks for the links, Jenny100. Very interesting reading indeed.
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| 10 NOV 2008 at 2:46am |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | The new disk check proceedures can at times very invasive, including as discussed random and increasingly detailed checks with 'home base" there will be more lawsuits over this, and Sony has not listened yet to the concerns that people have conveyed to them over some of this, so it will take some time I am sure.
The basic 'disk in the drive' type of SecuRom check is indeed the classic approach and the one taken by many very reputable and decent companies. Good for us to discuss this so we can all learn as we progress.
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