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| 15 SEP 2008 at 11:21am |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | The min requirements for games sometimes seem to be well guarded secrets which should instead be well publicised.
I've never seen a single game for which official minimum requirements are not easy to find. Whether or not those official min req's are accurate, and what concessions you have to make for the game to run well in a rig with such specs is another matter altogether, although adventure games in particular run fairly well even on old hardware.
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| 15 SEP 2008 at 11:33am |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By ukpetd (15 SEP 2008 11:07am)
DRM = Digital Rights Management. It's a software check on copying and playing. It's been used on digital recordings, but is now dropped by most recording companies after public outcry. Unfortunately it still exists in some game disks. I have very recently bought Perry Rhodan : Myth of the Illochim which turns out to have SecuROM. It is mentioned on the box, but in small print on the back. The game has to message home via the internet before you can play. I note Spore has a truely restrictive form of DRM. See Amazon where the game has only a 1 star rating, basically because over 2000 reviewers have protested over the DRM. Anyone know of other games which have DRM?
After the game is uninstalled the DRM remains on the host computer. I tried to remove SecuROM and downloaded a trojan with the removal software. Anyone know a clean removal site?
I didn't get to play the game - my ancient machine was not up to the spec. That's another topic. The min requirements for games sometimes seem to be well guarded secrets which should instead be well publicised.
A 'cracked' version of this will no doubt already be circulating via the torrent/warez sites..Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face >
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| 15 SEP 2008 at 3:23pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | I used to care. I used to rant and rave and complain. I used to avoid steam like the plague and only buy games I knew would work in 10 years time, so I knew I'd get my moneys worth.
You know what I feel now? I don't care anymore. Whats the difference? So my game won't work in 10 years? Oh well. Nothing in life is forever, life itself included. I say enjoy games while they are here. Instead of avoiding Spore because of these asinine protection schemes, why not just enjoy it? Sure it sucks to be limited, but so what?
When I bought dos and nes games back in the day I had no clue whether in 5 years I could play them. Especially not 20 years. Emulators were not even thought of. By all rights games like King's Quest *should* be unplayable, but thanks to fan efforts they are. Who's to say in 20 years we won't have steam emulators? We don't know, so like Mario 3 and Final Fantasy I'm diving in and just enjoying them while they are here today.
It feels good to stop being so uptight caring about the future. Games aren't eternal? Oh well. Just like pets I'll enjoy the time we have together.
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| 15 SEP 2008 at 7:27pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | You can still play console games on their original console, people do that all the time.
So why shouldn't you be able to do so with a computer game?
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| 15 SEP 2008 at 8:18pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | I completely agree with you Shany & because of the whole hoohah about not being able to back up download versions to play independent of an internet connection in the future I make a point of buying only disc versions. When I do so I do not expect to have to gain permission to play it!
Having said that, I haven't come across any games so far where that's been necessary, except for Missing in January/In Memoriam where obviously you need the connection to get through the game!
I didn't notice in the case of Perry Rhodan that I needed internet access to launch it - only that it may have asked you to register your product - quite a few games ask this as well as many other non-game software (disc versions I'm talking about) - I never do & haven't experienced any problems so far.
As for copy protection - I discovered last year that I had Starforce installed - tracking back to the game that it came from it must have been sitting there for at least 2 years! I can't blame publishers of any software for trying to prevent their product from being pirated but I do think that it should be a lawful requirement for them to state & give info about any copy protection or otherwise that you are installing along with how you can remove this 'extra' afterwards & any potential risk to your PC!
I haven't, as far as I know!, experienced any problems with e.g. Starforce being there - I know there are rumours that it can burn out your disc-drive - has anyone that has not tried to copy discs they shouldn't experienced this?
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 7:26am |
SAMSpace Cadet
Posts : 148
Joined: 13 FEB 2004
Status : Online | I bought a game that had secure rom in it.
It kept telling me to insert the orginal disc ( the one that came with the game)...well, it didn't like the original disc, the one that came in the box.
I couldn't locate the website email/coontact, mainly because they didn't post an email/contact page. Finally, someone suggested going to the pirate-patch site and get a patch to run the game.
Ironically, it worked. and I was able to get the game to run, via patch , not from help from the developer....
BTW
How do you get Star Force off your computer?
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 1:37pm |
LadyLindaIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 91
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | They have a program that will remove it.
http://www.star-force.com/support/drivers/
LadyLinda
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 2:35pm |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | has anyone that has not tried to copy discs they shouldn't experienced this
There are no discs that you shouldn't copy. We have a legal right to make back-ups of our legally owned software.
I used to care too. Then I found out about cracks...
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 3:20pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Shany (15 SEP 2008 7:27pm)
You can still play console games on their original console, people do that all the time.
So why shouldn't you be able to do so with a computer game?
I could turn that around and say - you can. Keep that old PC with windows and your game copy installed. Even without the activation server it will still function.
I just find it very interesting that PC games are expected to be eternally backwards compatible and installable and yet console games are not held to the same regard. As I said - when I was a kid I didn't buy games based on whether I could play them in 20 years. I just wanted to enjoy them while they were on my lap. Whether or not I now have access to an emulator or ebay to get the system back is irrelevant.
I mean it's really hilarious. People can't play GBC games on their DS, and yet no it's not an issue. People just moved on. XBLA and Virtual Console Wii games are tied to the system as well, and yet people buy them. Is that not DRM? Why does it make a difference whether you use XBLA to get that new Bionic Commando remake versus Securom on the PC? Both are very restrictive.
The difference? People know their 360 won't be around in 10 years. They don't care. They move onto the next console. Yet we can't let go as PC users.
I regularly play old games so I understand fully why you'd want to keep them forever. However so what if you can't. Did you not enjoy them while they were new? I know I did.
Let's pretend early Sierra games used DRM. So you avoid them because hey - the hell with DRM. So then you miss out on the greats simply because you couldn't guaruntee they'd work years later. Nevermind the fact that you can't play them now, who cares. As long as you can play them later. :-?
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 3:47pm |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (16 SEP 2008 2:35pm)
has anyone that has not tried to copy discs they shouldn't experienced this
There are no discs that you shouldn't copy. We have a legal right to make back-ups of our legally owned software.
I used to care too. Then I found out about cracks...
This isn't my argument but somebody posted on Amazon that nobody ever 'owns' the software they purchase. You know those licence agreements that nobody ever reads before they install something? Guess what, that means you are only licenced to use the software as long as you agree to all of the legal stuff they put on there and if it says you can't make copies then you have violated the terms under which the software is licenced to you. Therefore you actually don't have the 'right' to make a backup, because you are not the owner...
Like I said, not my argument but it could stand up in court..
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 3:57pm |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | The companies could write that they have the right to your firstborn male child in the EULA we all agree to when installing the game for all anyone cares.
No EULA supersedes national law. I don't know what goes on in the USA, but in all European countries the buyer has the right to make a fully functional back up copy of his legally owned software, and I'd love to see a company bring such a case to trial and try to argue otherwise.
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 4:46pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (16 SEP 2008 3:56pm)
No EULA supersedes national law. I don't know what goes on in the USA, but in all European countries the buyer has the right to make a fully functional back up copy of his legally owned software, and I'd love to see a company bring such a case to trial and try to argue otherwise.
Yeah, from what I understand their DMCA makes things very restrictive. The Tories here had introduced legislation similarly restrictive in the last Parliamentary session, but since Parliament is now dissolved we've been saved from such misfortune and I can still legally make backups of my games.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 4:52pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (16 SEP 2008 3:56pm)
The companies could write that they have the right to your firstborn male child in the EULA we all agree to when installing the game for all anyone cares.
No EULA supersedes national law. I don't know what goes on in the USA, but in all European countries the buyer has the right to make a fully functional back up copy of his legally owned software, and I'd love to see a company bring such a case to trial and try to argue otherwise.
In Canada a bill was passed to make it illegal (though it's being argued against now). As I see it law or no law - no one has any idea what I do in my own house. If I make a copy of a disc for private use I can't imagine who it's going to hurt. Nor can I imagine someone magically finding out about it.
Kind of like smoking up. The law isn't always on your side, but really - no one cares. Just don't do it in public.
By the way as a side question - no one here avoids Sam and Max due to the DRM involved do they? It's hardware fingerprinted and online authenticated. If you do then really, thats just sad. Telltale is one of the few actually putting effort into their games. To think someone might avoid them simply because of DRM....
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 5:18pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (16 SEP 2008 4:52pm)
In Canada a bill was passed to make it illegal (though it's being argued against now).
Unless you're referring to another bill I'm not aware of, Avatar, no such bill was passed: the only bill introduced (either by the government or private members in either the Commons or Senate) in the last two and a half years to amend the Copyright Act, Bill C-61 (39th Parliament, 2nd session), was never passed. It was, in fact, never even debated in the Commons, never mind the Senate. We are, as far as I know, still quite safe from such legal tyranny.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 19 SEP 2008 at 7:00pm |
AkhillesPrivate Detective
Posts : 581
Joined: 21 JUL 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | One company that is trying to do something about the annoying DRM is Stardock (strategy game maker and windows toys).
http://www.sinsofasolarempire.com/
The company's owner created a bill of rights, asking the gaming industry to be kinder and more helpful to gamers:
http://www.edge-online.com/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights
Which makes more sense... try to prevent a certain amount of pirates from getting a copy of your game... or run up the cost of customer service, helping CUSTOMERS to actually play the game they purchased because your DRM is obtrusive and keeps the customer out of the game?
As far as adventure games go, I cannot recall myself having too much trouble with any one game.
Companies like Telltale have an activation service they use (they register the game to your system) which seems to work fine for me.
We can all thank Sony for pulling their little trick they did with DRM on a music CD of theirs. They put a ROOTKIT in the software on the CD (the software was the only way you could rip the CD to your PC, total of 3 times).
Once they were caught, they had to give refunds for the CD to the consumers, and they re-released the music on a disc without all that DRM nonsense.
Thank them.. why? If they hadn't done it, got caught, it would still be an option for others in all industries to try.
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
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| 19 SEP 2008 at 8:07pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Telltale's system uses your account to activate, and I believe there are some limit with hardware fingerprinting (though I've not encountered any issues - but I haven't reinstalled any games yet)
Telltale is pretty much doing the same as Steam, or as Bioshock currently (securom w/o install limit).
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| 19 SEP 2008 at 11:14pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | In Denmark you have the right to make a backup of your computer game (s) for archival or safety reasons (i.e. safety copy). You also have the right to circumvent any copy protection in games and computer in order to do so. You do not, however, have the right to make a copy of a computergame, then give it away to your neighbour or sell it to a third person.
If you can't play the game, you have the right to circumvent the copy protection as well. You also have the right to circumvent any region codes in order for games to play on your system. This part also goes for movie dvds and music cds.
If the movie dvd (or music cd) for example has a copy protection you're allowed to break that protection if you can't play it on your cd-player on on your computer. It is illegal, I think?, to make a copy of a movie dvd or music cd - even if it only is safety copies you're making.
The info I've found on this isn't quite clear on whether you may make an safety copy or not when it comes to music cds and movie dvds. I still think that the intelletual property right law (as denmark do not have any copyright laws) gives you the right to make one single copy for archival or security purposes.
I know this probably does not side well with most EULAS; we need to remember that it is the laws that is legally valid - not the EULAS. In the EU we have a two year warranty. And even EA can't run away from this one - even if they try do so in their EULAS.
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| 20 SEP 2008 at 7:42am |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | Aren't Microsoft notorious for stamping down on people/businesses that have 'illegal' copies of their software? If Mr Gates is prepared to take people to court over this, then surely there must be some case law or precedent in such cases that says what you can or can't do?
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| 20 SEP 2008 at 12:24pm |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Businesses maybe, but Microsoft willingly let people pirate their operating systems in order to create a vast user base familiar with Windows only. It is only in the last 4 or 5 years that they decided to try to eliminate Windows piracy among home users, now that the biggest competitor for Windows are pirated copies of Windows...
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| 20 SEP 2008 at 6:35pm |
RosseauIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 35
Joined: 26 JUL 2003
Status : Offline | I've just encountered my first real DRM problem with SPORE. You see, I have a policy of:
1. Buy a game
2. Play it until I'm finished with it
3. Sell it on ebay
4. Use the money towards my next game
If I install spore the way it is intended, I lose 1 of the 3 activations you're allowed. If I need to reinstall at any point, then that's 2 gone. Next to useless as a sell-on. So I installed it using a crack, and I don't feel one bit guilty. Especially as the game was a bit cack. However, the point is that I'll now be able to sell my copy of spore with the full number of activations left, whereas people who have followed the rules will be stuck with it. I'm being rewarded for cheating and as we all know that really shouldn't be happening.
Playing: Fahrenheit&&Reading: The Interpretation Of Murder - Jed Rubenfeld&&Watching: BBC's Life On Mars (again!)&&Listening: The Last Shadow Puppets
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| 20 SEP 2008 at 7:08pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Indeed, and this is only the kind of problem DRM generates now. Imagine if copy protection on DOS games had been so draconian: they would all be impossible to play today (never mind that some are quite problematic anyway).
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 21 SEP 2008 at 2:52am |
SAMSpace Cadet
Posts : 148
Joined: 13 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Ahh, the good ol' days of DOS, where just getting the game to run was harder than playing....
Sometimes more fun than playing the game
LOL
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| 21 SEP 2008 at 3:02am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | The greater the challenge the greater the reward, SAM. You have no idea how ecstatic I was the first time I heard the digitised beeps and boops of my R2 unit in X-Wing. The funny thing is, I hadn't even realised anything was wrong until I spied a looping demo of the game's opening sequence at my favourite computer store a full year after I'd first played the game.
Of course sometimes it can be a complete let-down. I spent days getting SimCity CD to work, only then realising that it was completely, dizzyingly inferior to my beloved SimCity 2000.
Interestingly I never really had problems with adventure games. As a general rule it seems they've always been pretty easy to run.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 25 SEP 2008 at 1:05am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Oh, I love it when idiots speak - exactly what part of common sense don't they get?
EA threatens forum users with ban for DRM talk
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