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| 17 NOV 2008 at 6:08pm |
Taurnil MithrandirJourneyman
Posts : 1093
Joined: 13 AUG 2006
Status : Online | Greece.
....set the controls for the heart of the sun....
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| 17 NOV 2008 at 7:11pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By eragon (17 NOV 2008 6:07pm)
Greece.
Ah. A country which has produced a great many talented people. 8-)
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| 17 NOV 2008 at 9:15pm |
Taurnil MithrandirJourneyman
Posts : 1093
Joined: 13 AUG 2006
Status : Online | Well I'm not, I assure you but Jonathan Boakes surely is DA MAN!
....set the controls for the heart of the sun....
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| 18 NOV 2008 at 12:23am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (17 NOV 2008 7:11pm)
Originally Posted By eragon (17 NOV 2008 6:07pm)
Greece.
Ah. A country which has produced a great many talented people. 8-)
..and then there's Aya. :-/
Joking!
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| 9 DEC 2008 at 9:10pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Nigel_Danvers (28 SEP 2008 1:00am)
I can see now why American audiences would have been totally in the dark regarding Nigel's speech patterns.
While we may be accustomed to the accent, the stylized rhythm and and the pre WWII cultural standards that justified and gave rise to that manner of speaking are totally foreign to us.
It's easy to take such a distinctive pattern for plain old rotten voice acting, especially when good voice acting is the exception rather than the rule in most games.
I, like many other people thought that Nigel was either the victim of bad voice acting, or was voiced that way as a clue to who or what Nigel really was.
Well, the biggest put-off for me in the game was the weird way in which Nigel/Jonathan punctuated his sentences, and I never would have dreamed that he actually did this on purpose. This is what he said on that blog that "Nigel Danvers" : above, referred to:
Anyway. As for Nigel...he is popping up in the new games, complete with Danverspeak™. I based Nigel's voice on the old, black and white horrors, of the 30's and 40's, where everyone spoke in a very specific way...kind of stunted, and over actor-ish. The performances in Sapphire & Steel (a TV fave from the 80's) are also very similar (doubters should re-check Adventure 2's Tully, or Adventure 5's Dinner Party. Cripes!). I guess it's a style, and as a style it has successes and failings.
Uughh. I just wish he would acknowledge it as a failed experiment and let it go... [smiley=zombie.gif]
As for the ending - I thought the ending tied in very nicely; and except for the Mr Hare and Mr Crow that Aya also mentioned, I think that every thread was tied up very nicely, actually... or perhaps I'm still too fresh out the game.. I'm sure that some loose ends will pop up soon.
EDIT: Yes I was tired and on a high - how could I have said that? There are actually quite a few loose ends, perhaps intentional? I'll start a seperate "spoiler" thread for those...
Anyway, it was the sort of ending I would have wanted, up to just before the very last bit. That was a twist I didn't like too much, but as a lover of twists in stories, I suppose I should reluctantly applaud it.
So, except for a slow beginning and the terrible Danverspeak, a very nice game, with a very satisfying ending, I thought.
Just not scary/spooky enough.
Spoiler AlertThe only "yuk" part was the cats, and only scary part was a momentary start when the little girl appeared with those ghosty eyes.
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| 9 DEC 2008 at 9:53pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Ivinia (2 SEP 2008 10:57pm)
Originally Posted By Aya_Brea (2 SEP 2008 9:08pm)
btw, i am curious which was the scene that you found particularly disturbingly shocking... you could mention it here in a spoiler tag
Spoiler Alert
I'm a cat owner and love em'. I didn't think he would go "there" in the story but he did. It was most unexpected, yet I was glad to see him do it. I was equally glad that GotGame had the balls to let him keep it in there.
I doubt it will unite players. I fully expected this one to be talked about far and wide. As it stands, the only forum that had lots of posts on it was GameBoomers who analyzed the heck out of it.
I am extremely doubtful that any new games will ever match the mystique of the older supposed classics - even if the new games are much better.
Ivinia, I searched and searched over at Gameboomers, to find the thread you are talking about, but only found threads asking for help? Can you remember more or less where it was?
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| 10 DEC 2008 at 5:56am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (9 DEC 2008 9:53pm)
Ivinia, I searched and searched over at Gameboomers, to find the thread you are talking about, but only found threads asking for help? Can you remember more or less where it was?
It's ***here***
You have to search back a ways. The easiest way to find it is to do a search for Crown in the thread title. And don't forget to change the date range to more than a week.
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| 10 DEC 2008 at 7:13am |
| Deleted User | Wow, thanks Jenny.
Don't understand how I missed that. :-? I made the search for a few months, but perhaps the search focused too much on the word "lost".
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| 10 DEC 2008 at 10:49am |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1316
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Thanks, Jenny!
Perhaps it's time I reactivate the GameBoomers account I have not logged in to for the last seven years or so. If I can still remember the password :.
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| 10 DEC 2008 at 1:42pm |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 592
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | OK am I the only one who's a bit underwhelmed by Mr Boakes? I started playing the lighthouse game and actually found it quite boring. Should I go back to it?
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Darkness Within 2, The Witcher, Fallout 3
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| 10 DEC 2008 at 1:56pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By maum (10 DEC 2008 1:41pm)
OK am I the only one who's a bit underwhelmed by Mr Boakes? I started playing the lighthouse game and actually found it quite boring. Should I go back to it?
I never finished the Dark Fall games, (barely started, actually), and I felt very bored with The Lost Crown when I started it.
However, after finishing it, and reading his blog, I am by now such a fan that I've moved the two Dark Fall games back on to my short list again.
It seems to me there is a lot more to his games than appear on the surface. They are not meant to be simply spooky games, and indeed, I did not find The Lost Crown scary at all. (Ok, maybe a few parts closer to the end of the game.)
They are more games that play around with ideas, and the whole game is set as a sort of a puzzle to get you thinking and trying to figure out exactly how what fits in; - just like any really good mystery.
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| 12 DEC 2008 at 2:16am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Well said Traveler. I think Jonathan himself is a deep thinker and he generally has a purpose for everything he does. His games are indeed subtle. There are also little things that reference previous events in his other games. A nice touch, but you really do have to pay attention to the details - which most people don't.
Sadly, I'm not sure this type of gameplay is appreciated anymore. Seems the majority of players prefer fast, quick stories that tie themselves up neatly with a pretty little bow. Ongoing sagas don't seem to be appreciated much. :-/
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| 12 DEC 2008 at 2:21am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (10 DEC 2008 1:55pm)
I never finished the Dark Fall games, (barely started, actually), and I felt very bored with The Lost Crown when I started it.
When I was playing this for the review here on JA, it had the same effect on me. Midway through the first day and I had this thing in the low B category, it just kept slowly weaving itself into my mind though and picking up the pace and going and going. There were so many times I thought I was near the end only to find there was SO much more to discover.
Strangely enough, I was happy with the ending. The part that bugs me was when the catnapper was caught. Something about the way the whole thing played out left me thinking that something wasn't right and there was more to it. Not sure why, but I don't think they caught the right person.
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| 12 DEC 2008 at 8:22am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Ivinia (12 DEC 2008 2:21am)
Strangely enough, I was happy with the ending. The part that bugs me was when the catnapper was caught. Something about the way the whole thing played out left me thinking that something wasn't right and there was more to it. Not sure why, but I don't think they caught the right person.
Yes, I also really liked the ending. It just "felt right." And like you say, what good is an ending that doesn't leave you musing a bit?
But in spite of the fact that you were left with many questions to ponder about, I found the ending emotionally satisfying, Spoiler Alertbecause I wanted him to put back the crown. I also loved the way that Nigel helped and freed so many ghosts, or trapped spirits, and to me a high point of the game was not so much the crown itself, but defeating the Agers.
Re the catnapping thing, I suppose you have read my quotes from Johnathan's blog in the other thread by now? It is interesting to me, that it seems to be specifically catlovers and cat owners who don't like the way the catnapping story panned out. Just for interest's sake, who did you have in mind as the catnapper then?
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| 12 DEC 2008 at 9:22am |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 592
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (12 DEC 2008 2:16am)
Well said Traveler. I think Jonathan himself is a deep thinker and he generally has a purpose for everything he does. His games are indeed subtle. There are also little things that reference previous events in his other games. A nice touch, but you really do have to pay attention to the details - which most people don't.
Sadly, I'm not sure this type of gameplay is appreciated anymore. Seems the majority of players prefer fast, quick stories that tie themselves up neatly with a pretty little bow. Ongoing sagas don't seem to be appreciated much. :-/
I take it I should have started with the first game ? The issue to me was the ambience. I tend to have a problem with 1st person games anyway- it takes a lot to get me involved in a 1st person.
I was put off by the randomness of Darkfall, not to mention the fact that I got stuck in one of the future/past locations (can't remember which).
I supposed I might not have given it enough of a chance?
For the record I love sagas- in games and books! I wasn't even aware Darkfall was one though.
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Darkness Within 2, The Witcher, Fallout 3
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| 12 DEC 2008 at 10:00am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By maum (12 DEC 2008 9:22am)
Originally Posted By Ivinia (12 DEC 2008 2:16am)
Well said Traveler. I think Jonathan himself is a deep thinker and he generally has a purpose for everything he does. His games are indeed subtle. There are also little things that reference previous events in his other games. A nice touch, but you really do have to pay attention to the details - which most people don't.
Sadly, I'm not sure this type of gameplay is appreciated anymore. Seems the majority of players prefer fast, quick stories that tie themselves up neatly with a pretty little bow. Ongoing sagas don't seem to be appreciated much. :-/
I take it I should have started with the first game ? The issue to me was the ambience. I tend to have a problem with 1st person games anyway- it takes a lot to get me involved in a 1st person.
I was put off by the randomness of Darkfall, not to mention the fact that I got stuck in one of the future/past locations (can't remember which).
I supposed I might not have given it enough of a chance?
For the record I love sagas- in games and books! I wasn't even aware Darkfall was one though.
It is definitely turning out to be a saga, maum! As you might know, Jonathan is currently working on Dark fall 3, and I have seen him say somewhere, that he is planning on even more Dark Fall games after that!
So lest I fall behind too much, I suppose I had better play the first two sometime soon!
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| 12 DEC 2008 at 11:21am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | I've been wanting to pick up Dark Fall again for a while myself. It was difficult to play in the summer since it's really very dark. Too much glare.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 12 DEC 2008 at 11:41am |
Taurnil MithrandirJourneyman
Posts : 1093
Joined: 13 AUG 2006
Status : Online | Originally Posted By JKing (12 DEC 2008 11:21am)
I've been wanting to pick up Dark Fall again for a while myself. (
I'm thinking of doing it myself, too. It's been ages but I remember I was really touched by all the eerie environment and sound. Soon enough I'll try to give it a second chance.
....set the controls for the heart of the sun....
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| 12 DEC 2008 at 11:08pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (12 DEC 2008 8:22am)
Just for interest's sake, who did you have in mind as the catnapper then?
The woman who ran the bar. Spoiler AlertI saw the whole story about Mr. Gruel as sad and really thought his life was tragic. He went off the deep end after losing someone very close to him and threw all of his affections towards the doll.
I saw the woman who ran the bar as torturous (not sure why) and felt she framed him. The doll in the fireplace burning away as her cat sat comfortably basking in the heat. That woman just as easily could have tortured him mentally and threw his doll in the fire to drive him further into the abyss. While definitely crazy, he just didn't seem cunning enough to have pulled it all off.
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| 13 DEC 2008 at 4:03am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (12 DEC 2008 11:08pm)
The woman who ran the bar. Spoiler AlertI saw the whole story about Mr. Gruel as sad and really thought his life was tragic. He went off the deep end after losing someone very close to him and threw all of his affections towards the doll.
I saw the woman who ran the bar as torturous (not sure why) and felt she framed him. The doll in the fireplace burning away as her cat sat comfortably basking in the heat. That woman just as easily could have tortured him mentally and threw his doll in the fire to drive him further into the abyss. While definitely crazy, he just didn't seem cunning enough to have pulled it all off.
Spoiler AlertI don't think a cat owner could do what the catnapper did to those cats. As for Mr. Gruel, I thought he was possessed by the Agers and that was what drove him mad. Gruel may not be cunning, but I wouldn't say that about the Agers.
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| 13 DEC 2008 at 7:25am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (13 DEC 2008 4:02am)
Originally Posted By Ivinia (12 DEC 2008 11:08pm)
The woman who ran the bar. Spoiler AlertI saw the whole story about Mr. Gruel as sad and really thought his life was tragic. He went off the deep end after losing someone very close to him and threw all of his affections towards the doll.
I saw the woman who ran the bar as torturous (not sure why) and felt she framed him. The doll in the fireplace burning away as her cat sat comfortably basking in the heat. That woman just as easily could have tortured him mentally and threw his doll in the fire to drive him further into the abyss. While definitely crazy, he just didn't seem cunning enough to have pulled it all off.
Spoiler AlertI don't think a cat owner could do what the catnapper did to those cats. As for Mr. Gruel, I thought he was possessed by the Agers and that was what drove him mad. Gruel may not be cunning, but I wouldn't say that about the Agers.
Spoiler AlertHmmmm, perhaps Ivinia just doesn't like the idea of a man having done these ugly things... .
No, I think, that as a cat-lover, the woman who ran the bar was so angry at Gruel, for what he had done, that she threw his beloved Jemima into the fire as personal revenge against him. I think she probably caught him red-handed trying to steal her own cat.
It's been made clear in several places that Gruel was obsessed (and in a sense perhaps "posessed" by the Ager brothers. It was he who wrote the poison notes. (Notice that the last one was signed E.G. for Edward Gruel).
As Jonathan explained it, Gruel actually wanted Nigel to find the crown, and then be killed by the guardians at midnight on Beltane night.
Except that it then ended up being Hardacre's fate.
The main part about the cat-napping/Gruel story that didn't make sense to me, was the photographs against the wall in the net hut. Besides that it is hard to imagine Gruel following Lucy and Nigel to that extent, some of the photo's seem to be from the future.
So does that imply interference by Hadden?? :-? :-?
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| 13 DEC 2008 at 2:01pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | You guys are stuck on this idea that a cat lover can't be capable of doing such a thing. Spoiler AlertIt wasn't like she had a house full of cats. There was just the one. For all we know, it could have been a stray that she kept out of convenience because it kept the mice out of the bar. There are SO many stories of pet owners abusing their animals and being charged with cruelty and/or neglect. Just because someone has a cat or dog, does not automatically make them a cat or dog lover.
What made me take pause with the whole situation was that right as we start to close in on the catnapper and find their hideout, instead of us being the ones that catch them, we come around the corner to find everything suddenly wrapped up "nice and neatly". Had we been the ones who walked in on him and caught him, then I probably would have felt better about it. As it stands, the word 'framed' came into mind when they caught him...in broad daylight (if I remember correctly)... 'allegedly' trying to steal her cat from right in front of her.
The woman who ran the bar seemed more suspicious to me. Mr. Gruel seemed like too much of an easy target - did she really give us any information on anything?
I knew a guy out in Colorado who was a bit eccentric and a loner. Some friends of mine who also knew him said he kept a maniquin in his house that he had sitting at his kitchen table that he would talk to. He'd joke about it being his wife. The guy was harmless and I found the whole thing amusing, not shocking.
Now the whole Gruel thing with Jemima was definitely whacked, but I saw him more as the village idiot, not a sadistic killer of sorts.
Heck, for awhile there I was convinced Nanny Noah was a bit on the dark side. She was the only one who owned a dog and it seemed like she was constantly giving Nigel some tea just before he would go home to bed and have those 'experiences'. I kept wondering what the heck she was putting in the tea!
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| 13 DEC 2008 at 4:19pm |
| Deleted User | I'm not arguing with you about the cat thing anymore, Ivinia! :-*
Spoiler AlertI just quickly wanted to mention that I also suspected Nanny Noah at a point, of being the catnapper or even just a 'plant' to watch/influence Nigel. She was the one he always confided in, so she would have been the one to best influence him/keep tabs on him. And she did make a definite point tot state that she was not a cat-lover.
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| 14 DEC 2008 at 11:01am |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | I can't believe that the whole catnapping thing has become such a bone of contention, its really just a minor subplot in the whole story.
Although I liked the game I still don't think the ending is totally satisying, and even the main plot line about defeating the spirits of the Agers doesn't quite hold up, given that they are portrayed as such evil malevolent spirits yet all they are doing is trying to ensure that the Crown isn't taken, they are actually protecting Anglia and the Fenlands!
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